Y'all should ...

[doctornick]

Yes, this is correct. Jay Rasulo did a speech recently and said that the capitol budget for the parks division would be greater the $1 billion but significantly less the $2 billion. He also said the Avatar expansion would come out of that budget.

And that's an annual budget, right? If Carsland and Pandora each cost $500M but are spread out over the 2013-2016 timeframe, then there's plenty of money there in the budget for them.

 

[Californian Elitist]

But the real problem is DLR with its 2 parks have nearly the same amount of attractions as 4 parks in WDW. Which kinda shows ya 2 parks were rushed out the door, and hardly any capital investment.

I found this picture online and I thought it was appropriate for your comment.

 

[Clever Name]

Wait WHAT? Excuse me but IMHO an attraction is any ride and when it comes to entertainment, any which lasts for more than 7 minutes - minus M+G's. But the real problem is DLR with its 2 parks have nearly the same amount of attractions as 4 parks in WDW. Which kinda shows ya 2 parks were rushed out the door, and hardly any capital investment.

The parks that were "rushed out the door" get more visitation in a year (combined) than DL. DCA isn't even in the ball park, so far. Not to mention that the WDW complex gets over twice the visitation that DLR receives and earns much more money. Remember the old Watergate advice, "Follow the money".

 

[cheezbat]

The parks that were "rushed out the door" get more visitation in a year (combined) than DL. DCA isn't even in the ball park, so far. Not to mention that the WDW complex gets over twice the visitation that DLR receives and earns much more money. Remember the old Watergate advice, "Follow the money".

The only reason WDW is more attended is because of how it's been sold to people as the must do Mega Disney vacation resort. With over 43 square miles, 4 theme parks, 2 waterparks(once there were 3) A shopping/entertainment district, 23 resorts and hotels, a huge sports complex, golf courses, and a race track...Eisner made this place the 'must see' resort by the 90's. Disneyland has never had that type of push. They don't have the room.

Sad fact is, right now I'd just about trade for what's in Disneylands 500 acres over what we've got in WDWs 43 square miles.

It's all about quality and quantity.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The parks that were "rushed out the door" get more visitation in a year (combined) than DL. DCA isn't even in the ball park, so far. Not to mention that the WDW complex gets over twice the visitation that DLR receives and earns much more money. Remember the old Watergate advice, "Follow the money".

I love them both, but DHS and DAK get the visitors they do because people already have their 10-day park hoppers and they're right there. If those parks were in Tampa, they wouldn't be doing 9 million guests a year. Don't count DCA out yet. For years, it was cool to hate DCA and I suspect attendance has been depressed there from all of the construction going on. I expect a meteoric rise for DCA in 2013 compared to 2011. The park 100 yards away gets 16 million people and you have literally a million SoCal APers that have already paid for attendance to DCA, but the park only gets 6 million per year? Doesn't make sense. I mean, it does because of all of the problems with the park from opening, but those problems are pretty much all fixed now. With the splashy investments like World of Color, Carsland and even Mad T Party, DCA is cool now. Take this quote from Al Lutz's latest column:

The result of the wildly successful summer is that just a few days ago DCA crested the 7 Million attendance threshold and is now easily headed towards a 2012 figure somewhere north of 9 Million for the year, and perhaps 10 Million or more. The passing of the 7 Million milestone at the end of the summer was particularly bittersweet for many in Anaheim, as that was the original attendance estimate DCA was supposed to meet right out of the gate when it opened in early 2001.

Now there's some math ahead. This will be on the test, btw.

Let's assume DCA was pulling in roughly the same attendance as last year for the first six months of 2012. It makes sense: nothing new had opened and the the entire front of the park was even behind walls. That would put attendance at about 3.2 million for the first six months of the year before Carsland opened. If they are really past the 7 million mark, that's an incredible uptick. 3.2 million in the first six months, and 3.8 million in the last three months. That would be an annual pace of 15.2 million! DCA may even pass the non-MK WDW parks this year, and I'd say it's a virtual certainty in 2013. Disneyland could even challenge MK in the coming years, depending on how those parks' respective expansions go.

Those 27,000 hotel rooms can make the company a lot of money, sure, but they can also be an albatross around the company's neck. See: 2002. Entire resorts shuttered, entire buildings closed at other resorts, and Pop Century was opened more than 18 months later than originally planned.

 

[TP2000]

Those 27,000 hotel rooms can make the company a lot of money, sure, but they can also be an albatross around the company's neck. See: 2002. Entire resorts shuttered, entire buildings closed at other resorts, and Pop Century was opened more than 18 months later than originally planned.

With a major, deep recession sweeping across Europe from south to north, I wonder what those hotel occupancy rates will look like in WDW over the next 12 months. Even if the Euro monetary union hangs together through calendar 2013, the next year will be tough for any business that depends on European customers for a chunk of their orders. And WDW hotels count on Europeans in a big way.

This could get interesting in 2013, and beyond.

 

[GoofGoof]

The only reason WDW is more attended is because of how it's been sold to people as the must do Mega Disney vacation resort. With over 43 square miles, 4 theme parks, 2 waterparks(once there were 3) A shopping/entertainment district, 23 resorts and hotels, a huge sports complex, golf courses, and a race track...Eisner made this place the 'must see' resort by the 90's. Disneyland has never had that type of push. They don't have the room.

Sad fact is, right now I'd just about trade for what's in Disneylands 500 acres over what we've got in WDWs 43 square miles.

It's all about quality and quantity.

No need to trade. Just go to Disneyland. It's not on another planet.

 

[GoofGoof]

With a major, deep recession sweeping across Europe from south to north, I wonder what those hotel occupancy rates will look like in WDW over the next 12 months. Even if the Euro monetary union hangs together through calendar 2013, the next year will be tough for any business that depends on European customers for a chunk of their orders. And WDW hotels count on Europeans in a big way.

This could get interesting in 2013, and beyond.

This could be part of the internal debate on how much money to invest in WDW. Even if the US economy is improving (which is debatable at best) the European situation is a mess. Since Europe is a significant source of attendance it may give TWDC a reason to delay or cancel projects in FL. I hope this doesn't happen.

 

[GoofGoof]

I have to agree with you....the big boys will have to write the checks. But then what? Who is in charge of execution? Burbamk dealing with Cameron....so they cut the deal then hand off to TDO? Carsland? Why after building it in DCA wouldnt they send that team to build it in FL.? Who would know better? OK....so who cares who builds what. Our wonderful Team DIsney is left with maintence...etc. I am sorry I have little faith in them.

Weather its TDO or Burbank I have a hard time seeing them spend this amount on WDW. When you take in consideration the money spent on Nex-gen, Fle, DVC, all the refurbs that have taken place, AOA and anything else I maybe missing.....well you get the point. Thats a lot of Mickey dollars. So now we are to believe that they are going to spend another billion plus?

Lee or anybody else....what was the cost of CL? You would think it would cost less in FL. Then again we are talking about FL. Guest ned a reason to visit WDW? Hmmmm well no matter what is built now, people are not going to all of the sudden forget what is going on up the street. That horse has left the barn. Also does building these new attractions solve the reral issues that WDW is suffering? Quality....total guest experience. The mess DHS has become? Does Carsland fix DHS? EPCOT? the transportation issues? maintence issues?

If they build these new attractions we will be talking about how we remember when a single day ticket was $100 in the not to distant future.

You make a good point on maintenance and upkeep. If TDO was not certain that adding additional rides or refurbish existing rides was going to increase attendance they may be resistant to it even if the higher ups green light the spending. If new rides open the maintenance and cast member costs will go into the regular TDO budget. Forget about the capital cost of building the projects. That would be accounted for separately anyway. If the attendance boost did not generate enough new revenue to offset the costs they would be operating at a loss. For FLE they were increasing the total capacity of the park. They know how many guests were turned away during the peak periods since the MK reached capacity. It would be very easy to quantify the addition attendance from increased capacity, plus they may get a bump from people making a special trip to see something new. For expansions at DHS or AK the increases in attendance are less certain. Attendance would definitely be up at DHS if Carsland came and AK when Avatar opens, but due to the nature of the passes sold it may not translate into a dollar for dollar increase in revenue. If you have a 5 or 7 day pass anyway maybe you just spend more time at the parks with new stuff but you don't actually buy more days. For DCA it was a no brainer. Disneyland is primarily a day trip destination. The bulk of attendance is CA residents who visit for the day. With the DCA expansion they may see a canabalization of DL's attendance to a small extent. Some families who make an annual trip to DL may choose to hit DCA instead this year or next. The hope is people will stay 2 days and/or make 2 separate trips. With WDW a larger portion of guests is staying for multiple days or weeks. The hope they would have is people spend more time at WDW and cut back on days offsite. This is a hard sell with what is going on at Uni.

 

[John]

You make a good point on maintenance and upkeep. If TDO was not certain that adding additional rides or refurbish existing rides was going to increase attendance they may be resistant to it even if the higher ups green light the spending. If new rides open the maintenance and cast member costs will go into the regular TDO budget. Forget about the capital cost of building the projects. That would be accounted for separately anyway. If the attendance boost did not generate enough new revenue to offset the costs they would be operating at a loss. For FLE they were increasing the total capacity of the park. They know how many guests were turned away during the peak periods since the MK reached capacity. It would be very easy to quantify the addition attendance from increased capacity, plus they may get a bump from people making a special trip to see something new. For expansions at DHS or AK the increases in attendance are less certain. Attendance would definitely be up at DHS if Carsland came and AK when Avatar opens, but due to the nature of the passes sold it may not translate into a dollar for dollar increase in revenue. If you have a 5 or 7 day pass anyway maybe you just spend more time at the parks with new stuff but you don't actually buy more days. For DCA it was a no brainer. Disneyland is primarily a day trip destination. The bulk of attendance is CA residents who visit for the day. With the DCA expansion they may see a canabalization of DL's attendance to a small extent. Some families who make an annual trip to DL may choose to hit DCA instead this year or next. The hope is people will stay 2 days and/or make 2 separate trips. With WDW a larger portion of guests is staying for multiple days or weeks. The hope they would have is people spend more time at WDW and cut back on days offsite. This is a hard sell with what is going on at Uni.

I agree 100%, IMO there are better uses for the money. I would love to see carsland come to WDW but there are so many other issues that need to be addressed. Adding these attractions just seems short sighted. When the parks opened there was a formula that created what a Disney park was. Over the years they have slowly moved away from this formula. Yes I understand that guest and thier expectations have changed but IMO I think the formula they had was what made the cost of visiting the parks worth every cent. I remembr visiting as a kid during Christmas.....Christmas morning there was a stocking hanging on the door of our room. These special little touches made the experience so unique.....so magical. The themeing in the parks were so thick you could cut it with a knife. I wouldnt mind if they put some of money into the CM's. I think the whole dining issue could use some attention.

Why not make the parks into the best they can be then add some attractions. The money spent here dosnt show me a vision...any long term goals other then to answer what UNI has going on ( which isnt a bad thing....but is it the right thing). Also the ground that Disney has lost to UNI may never be recouped so why and try to fight them for it with just adding an attraction. The ugly truth of it is...in the Theme park wars the inability of Disney making a deal with Rowling has changed the face of WDW forever. The king is trying to play catchup to a boy wizard. Now Uni is going to double down on their boy wonder and without a doubt it will be a hit....money in the bank. Which they will in turn reinvest in to new additions. You think Disney is going to enter into that game? DO they have to? IMO do what you do best ( or atleast used to) give the guest a truly unique experience. Make it different from what you can get anywhere on the planet.

 

[ParentsOf4]

This could be part of the internal debate on how much money to invest in WDW. Even if the US economy is improving (which is debatable at best) the European situation is a mess. Since Europe is a significant source of attendance it may give TWDC a reason to delay or cancel projects in FL. I hope this doesn't happen.

Unfortunately, I suspect this is part of the thinking that has been used to manage WDW for the last decade. I'm hoping it doesn't continue.

Imagine if that same thinking had been applied to Universal Orlando and DLR. We'd have no WWOHP and no Carsland. What these 2 successes have shown is that consumers are willing to spend money if they are given a good reason to do so, despite the economy. With the exception of the "Free Dining" promotions (which now are becoming the new norm and no longer inspire new business the way they did when first introduced) TWDC hasn't given the consumer a new reason to visit WDW in a long time. We Disney fans might continue to visit WDW but TWDC's treatment of WDW doesn't help drum up new business.

Sadly, TWDC has demonstrated that it now takes them years to realize a new major attraction/land. TWDC needs to be planning today for what they envision will be happening 2-to-5 years from now.

 

[Disneykidder]

I think having different rides, attractions and lands at DL and WDW is what makes them both unique. There are two sides to this sword...on one if it goes to WDW, it would probably be very widely received thus bringing in more revenue. On the other, if it is only in DL, than that park would likely have people go there just to see it. Which is right? Not sure but it would be cool to see!! If it goes to WDW, we will have some VERY excited people in my house. If it only stays at DL, then I suppose a Cali tip may be in order.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

There's an article on the Hollywood Reporter where Jay Rasulo is quoted as saying,

""The next project of size in Florida will be Avatarland in Disney's Animal Kingdom."

and he also said,

""We will see a significant drop in capital expenditures in 2013," the CFO said. "Of course, Shanghai is ramping up for its opening in 2015. So on a consolidated basis you'll start to see new capital spending show up in our capex line for Shanghai Disneyland, and remember, that project is roughly $4.3 billion, of which we are investing 43 percent and the Chinese government 57 percent.""

And in the transcript, he seems to nix big projects like DCA 2.0 after Avatarland,

"You know, Avatar is coming for Walt Disney World. That is something that we feel like we absorb in our normal ongoing capital expenditure profile. That is going to come on in 2015, 2016 and we will be investing against it. But we are not going to go back in the foreseeable future to what we saw in 2011 and 2012. Nowhere near that."

Avatarland is still crawling along, and the big project is Shanghai. From a financial viewpoint, they'd probably want to wait until a year after Avatarland theoretically opens (to see how this land is received), before they start making big plans for Carsland. Meaning, that nobody is even close to thinking about building Carsland at DHS.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-shares-cars-land-california-adventure-372420

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think having different rides, attractions and lands at DL and WDW is what makes them both unique. There are two sides to this sword...on one if it goes to WDW, it would probably be very widely received thus bringing in more revenue. On the other, if it is only in DL, than that park would likely have people go there just to see it. Which is right? Not sure but it would be cool to see!! If it goes to WDW, we will have some VERY excited people in my house. If it only stays at DL, then I suppose a Cali tip may be in order.

I disagree, slightly! Disneyland is a park and historical destination. Locals might go to the parks because of a specific ride but the east coast people, for the most part, wouldn't make the cross country trip just because of one attraction. I can see the segregation of some rides not being repeated on each coast, but there are others that have proven to be very good. Soarin, comes to mind! When I went to DCA back in 2005, I was surprised by the number of attractions that were WDW attractions kind of scattered in the park. It was like they were using lands in DCA to replicated the three other parks in WDW. If Carsland turns out to be a blockbuster attraction in DCA...then logically it should be copied in WDW.

Someplace on this board, someone said that the number of attractions available in two parks under the arm of Disneyland was either the same or within one of equal to 4 parks in WDW. Can you imagine what would happen if that same number of "super" attractions were in only two parks in WDW. The shear numbers of people that attend WDW requires that it be spread out otherwise people would be walking on top of other people. Still when you take the resort, as a hole, Disneyland cannot compare with the choices of things to do that WDW offers. Just not enough room. In my mind, since WDW is the main money maker on this continent, it deserves all the love that they can muster.

 

[GoofGoof]

There's an article on the Hollywood Reporter where Jay Rasulo is quoted as saying,

""The next project of size in Florida will be Avatarland in Disney's Animal Kingdom."

and he also said,

""We will see a significant drop in capital expenditures in 2013," the CFO said. "Of course, Shanghai is ramping up for its opening in 2015. So on a consolidated basis you'll start to see new capital spending show up in our capex line for Shanghai Disneyland, and remember, that project is roughly $4.3 billion, of which we are investing 43 percent and the Chinese government 57 percent.""

And in the transcript, he seems to nix big projects like DCA 2.0 after Avatarland,

"You know, Avatar is coming for Walt Disney World. That is something that we feel like we absorb in our normal ongoing capital expenditure profile. That is going to come on in 2015, 2016 and we will be investing against it. But we are not going to go back in the foreseeable future to what we saw in 2011 and 2012. Nowhere near that."

Avatarland is still crawling along, and the big project is Shanghai. From a financial viewpoint, they'd probably want to wait until a year after Avatarland theoretically opens (to see how this land is received), before they start making big plans for Carsland. Meaning, that nobody is even close to thinking about building Carsland at DHS.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...-shares-cars-land-california-adventure-372420

Since they haven't officially announced anything there is no way an executive would talk about spending on the project. Avatar has been announced so they will talk about it. At my company the CEO did many interviews talking about it being unlikely that a major acquisition would happen any time soon the months leading up to the announcement of a major acquisition. Happens all the time. I wouldn't assume that since the CFO didn't mention a project in an interview that it won't happen.

 

[menamechris]

Avatarland is still crawling along, and the big project is Shanghai. From a financial viewpoint, they'd probably want to wait until a year after Avatarland theoretically opens (to see how this land is received), before they start making big plans for Carsland. Meaning, that nobody is even close to thinking about building Carsland at DHS.

If they are waiting until around 2020 to add anything (beyond Avatar) of significance to WDW, then the company is in huge trouble... Attendance is crawling along with a measley 1% increase last year - and that is coupled with steep discounting throughout the year. This year has been no different. Compared to Universal - a resort that offers very little by way of discounts, and has merch sales going through the roof.

 

[Lee]

Meaning, that nobody is even close to thinking about building Carsland at DHS.

Incorrect.
Pitches/presentations were made as recently as last week for DHS expansion.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The shear numbers of people thatIn my mind, since WDW is the main money maker on this continent, it deserves all the love that they can muster

Disagreed.

 

[Taylor]

Incorrect.
Pitches/presentations were made as recently as last week for DHS expansion.

Interesting do you know what kind of projects we don't know about that was pitched around?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Incorrect.
Pitches/presentations were made as recently as last week for DHS expansion.

Well, all I can say is that they can "think" about adding Carsland to DHS, but its kinda meaningless at this point as plans change. Management obviously isn't going to lie to investors and the money men when they describe their spending plans over the coming half decade or so.

I'm sure a lot of ink has been spilled on concept work for rides/attractions/expansions that never happened. No doubt they are dreaming stuff for many years in the future, post Avatar, post Shanghai, but the talk on this message was that Carsland at DHS is a done deal, and I very much doubt that is the case (tongue in cheek).

Not sure who did the "pitching and presenting" as the whole company knows that Carsland is really pulling guests into DCA, sounds kind of superfluous and premature. After all, the development is done, what is there to pitch?? Feasibility studies don't mean a project is even close to being green lit.

Remember, Carsland hasn't been open even a year, how big is big, is the question, and how well will Carsland stand up after the initial frenzy is over. Obviously, whatever "presentation" was made, it wouldn't have a lot of long terms facts regarding Carsland's performance.

Carsland is Lasseter's baby, if anybody has any questions about cloning Carsland, they just need to ask his input.