Will There Every Be a 5th Major Park?

[Wilt Dasney]

NO NO AND DOUBLE NO...California Adventure IS HORRIBLE!

Hey now, DCA might end up being a pretty solid park once they've finished throwing all this money at it.

I think the biggest problem with bringing it to WDW is that, as it exists in California, it's a bunch of odds and ends gathered from the non-MK parks. (Granted, they had Soarin' first, so that criticism only goes so far.) But the park is built around attractions like Tower of Terror, Muppet*Vision 3-D, and It's Tough to Be a Bug. It would have to be completely re-imagined to come to Florida — and honestly, I just don't think the concept (as opposed to the content) is all that solid to be worth replicating.

 

[DocMcHulk]

I know they have a new value resort in the works but is there any possibility in the next 5-10 years of there being a new major park for WDW?

Will they build a 5th gate sometime in the future: Very high probability
Will they build a 5th gate int he next 10-20 years: Absolutely not.

 

[WDWJedi]

My problem with DCA was that it felt TOO much like the state fair...and I know that was part of the concept...but I don't go to state fairs...I go to DISNEY. Of course...I thought DL was kinda run down and bad when I was there. It was neat to see It's a Small World at DL, because it blows away SW at WDW. I also liked seeing the HM and POTC at DL...but other than that...I would have been TICKED to have dragged my entire family down there and spent the money for it. I could have skipped DCA altogether!

Disclaimer...this is coming from someone who grew up going to WDW...and worked for WDW...so there is some bias mixed in there....

 

[flavious27]

My problem with DCA was that it felt TOO much like the state fair...and I know that was part of the concept...but I don't go to state fairs...I go to DISNEY. Of course...I thought DL was kinda run down and bad when I was there. It was neat to see It's a Small World at DL, because it blows away SW at WDW. I also liked seeing the HM and POTC at DL...but other than that...I would have been TICKED to have dragged my entire family down there and spent the money for it. I could have skipped DCA altogether!

Disclaimer...this is coming from someone who grew up going to WDW...and worked for WDW...so there is some bias mixed in there....

Screw the bias, disney spending over a billion dollars to refurb a barely decade old park shows it was bad.

The idea of using elements of Cali to use as a theme isn't a bad idea, but the way they went about it was. They spent too little, used too many off the shelve rides, the area is too cramped, and the disney quality wasn't there for the rides and look.

 

[WDW1974]

No.

Never.

Ever.

(Boy, that felt good!)

 

[flavious27]

No.

Never.

Ever.

(Boy, that felt good!)

WDW1974!!!

 

[Duckberg]

FIX the four parks WDW already has! Duckberg :brick:

 

[juniorthomas]

Hello everyone! This is my 2nd post (first one not on the "Welcome" forum) and I have a question, but before I ask I would just like to say hello!

My family and I visited WDW just before Christmas time this past year, Dec. 19-22, and although I realize this is a busy time of year there just seemed to be a surplus of people everywhere making things uncomfortable crammed and lines growing to over 2 hours quickly after the parks open. So on our trip home we were brainstorming and figured what if they built a new park? I know they have a new value resort in the works but is there any possibility in the next 5-10 years of there being a new major park for WDW?

Almost a month late, but still. Welcome to the forums!

I think its reasonable to think they could add something within the next ten years or so.

 

[Gatorboy]

Although I don't think a 5th is coming anytime soon, I think it would be in Disney's interest to open a 5th park vs. adding to the other four. Case in point, the four parks mostly all out perform the other parks in Orlando without any extra attractions. Why invest? So yes, the attendance in the four parks would increase with added attractions, but not to the level and profit being able to charge another admission from a new park. I also think that you would have more people returning more often because they won't be able to see everything each vacation.

Granted, the attendance figures would go down at the existing parks a little, but would be more than made up by the new park. But, it could still be a win-win for all us fans. With attendance falling slighly in the older parks, Disney would invest to get people back to those parks.

I too would love to see the older parks givin some love, maybe this would be the way to spark it. Just trying to think out of the box, more profits from 5 gates could spurn additional spending for added attractions in the other parks.

Everybody seems to hate the idea of 5th park, I for one would love to see any addition to the resort. I don't mind clones either. It's nice to be able to catch all the rides in one place. Hey maybe DisneySea

 

[LM 2010]

NO NO AND DOUBLE NO...California Adventure IS HORRIBLE!

It may have been ten years ago when it opened but once phase one is finished next year it will be far better than DHS and will have more to do then DHS and DAK combined.

 

[imagineer boy]

It may have been ten years ago when it opened but once phase one is finished next year it will be far better than DHS and will have more to do then DHS and DAK combined.

But the theme may be ten times more ambiguous than DHS' by the time the expansion is done. :lol: Nothing says California like the Little Mermaid right?

 

[roadtripper]

I think the best idea is to branch out further, much further. The world's largest indoor waterpark based somewhere other than CA and FL. Maybe the D.C. or Atlantic city area. If a fifth park will simply draw attendance from others in FL and land is not available in Disneyland area or is too expensive, why not go somewhere else? Capitalize on the densely packed East Coast cities that need something to do other than casinos and seasonal theme parks that are so-so. The Marvel or even ESPN sports based theme would work well, and ESPN is where all the money is currently. In Atlantic City you could partner up with one of the struggling casino chains who have the hotels and the land, so the overhead is much lower than one might think. Right now AC needs something to save it, and Disney can operate a year round indoor waterpark that would definitely get my business.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I just think that right now the cost of a new park is probably put around a billion dollars (if not more). That same money can be better used to improve what's already there.

 

[juniorthomas]

I just think that right now the cost of a new park is probably put around a billion dollars (if not more). That same money can be better used to improve what's already there.

But with that logic, why would they ever make a new park?

 

[RSoxNo1]

But with that logic, why would they ever make a new park?

That's a fair point - with that logic they wouldn't have buillt the Animal Kingdom.

I just think that they could reasonably spend a billion dollars on the existing parks and we would still be wanting more.

Take a look at the DCA investment:

• Re-theme Orange Stinger into Silly Symphony Swings
• Re-theme Mulholland Madness into Goofy's Sky School
• Replace Golden Dreams with Little Mermaid
• Add theming to Paradise Pier
• Re-theme Sun Wheel into Mickey's Fun Wheel
• Replace Games on the Board Walk
• Re-theme Entrance plaza
• Add Red Car Trolleys
• Add Carsland, to feature 3 new attractions including Radiator Springs Racers

As far as I know, Toy Story Midway Mania and World of Color were not included in the 1.2 billion investment into California Adventure. The vast majority of that money seems to be for Carsland, with a huge portion of that investment in Radiator Springs Racers.

The issues with the Disney World parks aren't as extreme from a theming standpoint, bu they are from an attraction and dead space standpoint. The same amount of investment could certainly be spread across the WDW parks and accomplish quite a bit.

For Magic Kingdom, an additional E-Ticket (Tron) could be the only thing that the Magic Kingdom sees. Epcot could probably see the usage of existing infrastructure/attractions with a significant enhancement to 1 or 2 things (New Imagination Attraction for example).

This would bring them to the Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. The Animal Kingdom is in need of the most work, but it would all start with a major expansion that would include multiple attractions. It doesn't have the theming issues like DCA so the money allocation can be largely devoted to new additions. Hollywood Studios is a bit trickier but could also use a significant expansion (Carsland or something else).

This might be a good hypothetical discussion for a future podcast or at the very least forum discussion, but if Disney were to allocate a billion dollars to the parks, I would divide the demand as such:

Animal Kingdom: $500 million
Hollywood Studios: $300 million
Epcot: $100 million
Magic Kingdom: $100 million

Now because it doesn't seem that this is in the cards right now, the equivalent of this type of mass investment will probably take place over a longer period of time than what's currently happening in DCA. I think that after the types of improvements that this would bring then it's far more realistic to talk about a 5th gate. Until then, I wouldn't count on it.

 

[TP2000]

I just think that right now the cost of a new park is probably put around a billion dollars (if not more).

They are spending 1.2 Billion just to fix DCA during the 2009-12 time frame, and that only buys them a half dozen new rides (2 major, 4 minor) and lots of pretty detailing on surfaces and areas that lacked pretty detailing previously.

If they can spend 1.2 Billion to do that type of quality work at DCA, which is an unprecedented thing to do to an exsiting theme park and yet doesn't get them near the size of building an entire park, then I would peg the cost of a quality theme park at around 3 Billion instead of just 1 Billion.

Of course, you could spend 1 Billion to build a new park, but then that would put you right back into the position that DCA was in when it opened in 2001. You'd just need to spend a couple Billion more over the next decade trying to fix the bad perception people had of the place on opening day.

It's less expensive to do it right the first time.

EDIT: Oh, just saw your post right above mine! You already addressed some of that, and great thoughts there. It's truly amazing what they are doing to DCA (I just strolled through yesterday afternoon after work, and am still floored by it all). It's fascinating to think what could be done if they attempted the same thing with one or two of the existing WDW parks.

 

[wizards8507]

I just think that right now the cost of a new park is probably put around a billion dollars (if not more). That same money can be better used to improve what's already there.

I think that number is way low. Animal Kingdom cost $1 billion in 1998 dollars (roughly $1.3 in 2010 dollars), and most people still consider it an "incomplete" park. A new park, done right (i.e. Animal Kingdom with Beastly Kingdom) would probably run about $2 billion. That being said, the Dream and Fantasy cost about $1 billion each, so once they're done, the investment spending for Parks and Resorts (if it continues) will likely be redirected towards the parks.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think that number is way low. Animal Kingdom cost $1 billion in 1998 dollars (roughly $1.3 in 2010 dollars), and most people still consider it an "incomplete" park. A new park, done right (i.e. Animal Kingdom with Beastly Kingdom) would probably run about $2 billion. That being said, the Dream and Fantasy cost about $1 billion each, so once they're done, the investment spending for Parks and Resorts (if it continues) will likely be redirected towards the parks.

I hope you're right - I'm just not as optimistic.

 

[NoChesterHester]

But with that logic, why would they ever make a new park?

I pose the question right back at you... Why build a new park at WDW? I'm really not trying to be a jerk, just take a step back and look at it logically.

Outside of our fan wish to have something new to go to, I really don't see how it makes real world sense for Disney to build a fifth gate.

It isn't like our vacations are getting longer. Normal people just dont have more than a week to spend and a fifth park would likely canabalize attendance from the existing ones. It isn't like more people wil come in droves if it is constructed. Animal Kingdom basically confirmed that whole the market continues to grow by a percentage point or two, a new gate doesn't cause a huge jump in new tourists.

What may be viable is just what is being discussed here, long term master planned additions to the existing properties. Imagine if all the parks had as many attraction offerings as Disneyland. 250 attractions in four well built out theme parks would really justify an increase in return visitorship even mores than it does now. It may increase the frequency by which people visit.

I see the biggest financial benefit to the company is not only having people stay longer, but by driving the traffic up at the other three existing parks which would in turn increase merchandise and food sales. If they actually set a goal of getting Epcot to MK level attendance (17 million / year) and then set out to do the same at the other parks imagine what an amazing place WDW would become.

 

[imagineer boy]

What may be viable is just what is being discussed here, long term master planned additions to the existing properties. Imagine if all the parks had as many attraction offerings as Disneyland. 250 attractions in four well built out theme parks would really justify an increase in return visitorship even mores than it does now. It may increase the frequency by which people visit.

I see the biggest financial benefit to the company is not only having people stay longer, but by driving the traffic up at the other three existing parks which would in turn increase merchandise and food sales. If they actually set a goal of getting Epcot to MK level attendance (17 million / year) and then set out to do the same at the other parks imagine what an amazing place WDW would become.

Agreed! I think this really is the answer for the future of WDW. The parks simply need more to do, more to see. And that doesn't include just attractions, but shows, parades, street performers, and seasonal celebrations rather than year long ones which might encourage people to visit during different times of the year.