EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Very, very true, Dave.
But like Anton Ego, we too like to gush over something when it's just that good.
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Why is everyone so upset?!
- Thread starter richiericher22
- Start date
But like Anton Ego, we too like to gush over something when it's just that good.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if this quote relates to WDW, at least in the way that some of us aren't happy.
This holds perfect water if we're criticizing a new movie, for example. Or a meal.
But in my case (since I don't want to speak for everyone), I'm comparing Disney against THEMSELVES. I criticize WDW because of the product I've seen there in the past. More recently, I criticize WDW because of the difference in quality between the CURRENT PRODUCT that they offer in their other parks around the world vs. WDW. I mean, it's not like I'm solely pining for the Disney parks of the 80's. Not even close! I'm pining for the CURRENT type of product available at all the other parks around the world!
I don't judge Disney against other companies in the theme park industry. Or with my personal opinion about how a ride should end, or something like that. I judge them against themselves, and what they've already shown me that they can do... Both in the PAST, and CURRENTLY... At various resorts around the world.
I just want WDW to be what DLP is. Or what TDL is. Or DL in Cali. That's all.
I want them to stop taking away offerings with no replacement while continuing to raise prices.
I want apologists to travel elsewhere and see what Disney REALLY can do, and stop cutting them so much slack at WDW. Statements like "it's still fun" and "what good would it do to not be happy about it anyway" drive me nuts. They're permissive comments, and bulletin board material around TDO, I'm QUITE sure.
And I fully admit that the more that gets cut, the easier it is to be "set off" by something. I think that's what you're seeing with the LoW outrage. You have people that have probably noticed that little stuff has changed, but they were still okay with it. Then the LoW get taken away, and POW. The outrage on this board has been INSANE. I mean, sure... I find it a bit amusing that the handful of people that weren't happy with the WDW product a year or two ago (me included) did nothing but get laughed at back then, when NOW it's the "in" thing... But hey. It's no big deal.
:lol: I'm just glad more people have hopped on the bandwagon.I just want WDW's management to care about the parks and offerings in those parks like... Well... Any other Disney resort's management currently does.
I LOVE Disney parks. Love, love love them. And it's painful to see WDW and the cost cutting and everything.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Woo. Awesome post, Buried.I'm not sure if this quote relates to WDW, at least in the way that some of us aren't happy.
This holds perfect water if we're criticizing a new movie, for example. Or a meal.
But in my case (since I don't want to speak for everyone), I'm comparing Disney against THEMSELVES. I criticize WDW because of the product I've seen there in the past. More recently, I criticize WDW because of the difference in quality between the CURRENT PRODUCT that they offer in their other parks around the world vs. WDW. I mean, it's not like I'm solely pining for the Disney parks of the 80's. Not even close! I'm pining for the CURRENT type of product available at all the other parks around the world!
I don't judge Disney against other companies in the theme park industry. Or with my personal opinion about how a ride should end, or something like that. I judge them against themselves, and what they've already shown me that they can do... Both in the PAST, and CURRENTLY... At various resorts around the world.
I just want WDW to be what DLP is. Or what TDL is. Or DL in Cali. That's all.
I want them to stop taking away offerings with no replacement while continuing to raise prices.
I want apologists to travel elsewhere and see what Disney REALLY can do, and stop cutting them so much slack at WDW. Statements like "it's still fun" and "what good would it do to not be happy about it anyway" drive me nuts. They're permissive comments, and bulletin board material around TDO, I'm QUITE sure.
And I fully admit that the more that gets cut, the easier it is to be "set off" by something. I think that's what you're seeing with the LoW outrage. You have people that have probably noticed that little stuff has changed, but they were still okay with it. Then the LoW get taken away, and POW. The outrage on this board has been INSANE. I mean, sure... I find it a bit amusing that the handful of people that weren't happy with the WDW product a year or two ago (me included) did nothing but get laughed at back then, when NOW it's the "in" thing... But hey. It's no big deal.
I just want WDW's management to care about the parks and offerings in those parks like... Well... Any other Disney resort's management currently does.
I LOVE Disney parks. Love, love love them. And it's painful to see WDW and the cost cutting and everything.
Quoted for Truth.
Opinion! I really don't mind it.:lol:
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
Well, granted, it is entertaining. I might be the only person who actually doesn't mind the chili dog smell.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
The other thing to consider is that we tend to notice negative criticism more, whether it's more entertaining or thought-provoking or anger-inducing ("You're so stupid and wrong! How could you even THINK that blah blah blah...?)
There are tons of threads on various WDW experiences that start negatively. Some post to agree, some post to disagree. There are also tons of threads on various WDW experiences that start POSITIVELY, but it's the person who then says "It's crap" that garners attention. I don't mind people not liking something; it bothers me if someone is perpetually down on everything at WDW (if you like nothing, why are you here?) and of course I belive there is a special place in Hell for the trolls who only come on here to be doo schnozzles and provoke ire, saying things even they don't necessarily agree with just to get a reaction. If you believe it, it's one thing. If you just want to see who will get upset at our ramblings, consider Valium.
Nonetheless, it's quite often the negative things we notice more than the positive things. Indeed, it's why trolls are trolls in the first place.
Now, having said all of that, I take offense to the idea that people who complain about SOMETHING are lumped in with people who complain about EVERYTHING. Personally, I think the HM refurb is well done, but SGE is absolutely assy. I think SSE could've been handled better, not that it stinks now but it's importance has been diminished. ToT is certainly better now than it was originally. Disagree with me if you want, but I preferred HIStA over Captain Eo. I'm not down on everything new, but if you're going to strive for improvements, don't settle for "better enough." You're Disney, shoot for the moon.
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
Fully agreed and well said. Disney should show it's true potential.
Krack2
Member
Just curious (and believe me, I'm not looking for an argument), would "I'm nostalgic and long for how the parks used to be around 1992ish" be an acceptable answer to that "why are you here?" question?
raven
Well-Known Member
Couldn't have said it beter myself. A lot of people come on these boards to find fun facts and secrets, share stories and photos of their vacations. But all too often the board is cluttered with bitterness and hatred toward the parks and Disney in general. Then those same people attack those members that love the company. And it goes on and on.
Luige11
Member
Thread win close now. Hahahahaha. :wave:
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if this quote relates to WDW, at least in the way that some of us aren't happy.
This holds perfect water if we're criticizing a new movie, for example. Or a meal.
But in my case (since I don't want to speak for everyone), I'm comparing Disney against THEMSELVES. I criticize WDW because of the product I've seen there in the past. More recently, I criticize WDW because of the difference in quality between the CURRENT PRODUCT that they offer in their other parks around the world vs. WDW. I mean, it's not like I'm solely pining for the Disney parks of the 80's. Not even close! I'm pining for the CURRENT type of product available at all the other parks around the world!
I don't judge Disney against other companies in the theme park industry. Or with my personal opinion about how a ride should end, or something like that. I judge them against themselves, and what they've already shown me that they can do... Both in the PAST, and CURRENTLY... At various resorts around the world.
I just want WDW to be what DLP is. Or what TDL is. Or DL in Cali. That's all.
I want them to stop taking away offerings with no replacement while continuing to raise prices.
I want apologists to travel elsewhere and see what Disney REALLY can do, and stop cutting them so much slack at WDW. Statements like "it's still fun" and "what good would it do to not be happy about it anyway" drive me nuts. They're permissive comments, and bulletin board material around TDO, I'm QUITE sure.
And I fully admit that the more that gets cut, the easier it is to be "set off" by something. I think that's what you're seeing with the LoW outrage. You have people that have probably noticed that little stuff has changed, but they were still okay with it. Then the LoW get taken away, and POW. The outrage on this board has been INSANE. I mean, sure... I find it a bit amusing that the handful of people that weren't happy with the WDW product a year or two ago (me included) did nothing but get laughed at back then, when NOW it's the "in" thing... But hey. It's no big deal.
I just want WDW's management to care about the parks and offerings in those parks like... Well... Any other Disney resort's management currently does.
I LOVE Disney parks. Love, love love them. And it's painful to see WDW and the cost cutting and everything.
I will give you that, partially.
As much as we loathe to admit, we (those of us on these boards) do not know what is behind every decision that is made concerning WDW.
We assume we know, we hear what 'insiders' tell us. We listen to what disgruntled employees say, and we draw inferences from what we see elsewhere.
I have seen this same sort of thinking many many times where I work. For example, I happen to be in a National Staff position. As such, I am privy to some product selection information. There have been complaints when we discontinued certain products and introduced cheaper ones. Everyone thought it was because of price. What they did not know was about safety and manufacturing issues, that they did not need to know about.
It's a small example I know, but many of us here are very good at armchair Imagineering using incomplete information.
I don't doubt that sometimes we are right, but many times we are not. I find myself doing it with the dining options at WDW, then I stop and delete what I was going to post, because I realize I am making decisions based on an incomplete data set.
I guess what it boils down to, is that we all know Disney CAN do better, but do we really know WHY they are not doing better. (And "being cheap" is a cop out answer. as is anything along the lines of "management is stupid")
Criticism is fun to write and fun to respond to. When people post supporting anything they are labeled as "fanbois" and told they are dupes. Another form of criticism.
-dave
Exactly. I mean people make it seem like it's the end of the world sometimes and it's ridiculous.
I'm not going to read through this whole thread since it's probably redundant, but you sir have very eloquently put into words the problem with all of these attractions. Thank you.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
There are no easy answers to your question, young sage...
As far as I'm concerned, if answers are honest, polite and not troll-bait, then there's no such thing as a wrong answer on this thread. Bonus points if those answers are also entertaining. But at the same time, if someone only ever complains about the way things are versus the way things were, that person can't be surprised if there's a collective cyber-eye-roll every time they post another gripe session.
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
I'm with the OP, especially in regards to the ridiculous behaviors of the change-haters.
Too many of the members of this forum (out of desperation to get their way and ruin everything for everyone else) complain about every single little refurbishment that occurs in the parks with little or no ability to comprehend why they were made. And the manner in which they do it most of the time does add more and more salt to that wound.
There's nothing wrong with the majority of refurbs including SSE, TTA, etc.
Too many of the members of this forum (out of desperation to get their way and ruin everything for everyone else) complain about every single little refurbishment that occurs in the parks with little or no ability to comprehend why they were made. And the manner in which they do it most of the time does add more and more salt to that wound.
There's nothing wrong with the majority of refurbs including SSE, TTA, etc.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Fair enough.
I'd say that you're correct... We're not in the boardrooms when these decisions are made, so we often times don't know the "real" reasons behind them.
But my problem is that many of the things that are cut/gone/changed can't have been made with the guest being TDO's focus.
Mickey's Christmas Carol being gone.
The dumbing down of the TTA narration.
The CBJ Christmas overlay being gone.
Shuttered attractions - heck, whole PAVILLIONS- closed with no replacement.
These are small examples of things that build a trend.
And the exact opposite is happening at Disney resorts around the world. THAT'S really what gets to me. If the same company can treat all these other resorts with "white gloves" (ha), then why have things been going the way they have at WDW?
Seeing that they CAN and DO do it all over the rest of the world, I think, takes away TDO's wiggle room. Their "hey, we HAD to do it!" excuses.
stevieg639
New Member
I vote we close this one up.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Good thing your vote doesn't count. ??
This is a completely civil discussion. No one's going crazy, arguing or anything like that. I'd actually like to see what Phonedave's response is.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
See, that grosses me out. :lol:
So...are you insinuating that some of us "hate" Disney? I don't think that's possible on a board like this! :lol: We obviously all have a connection, and a love or a passion for WDW, while we might critique it, and demand a better product, I think it's because we still love it. :wave:
And hate and anger are far too strong of words to use for something Disney. :lol: It's all relative. This has no effect on my outlook in real life whatsoever.
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
I agree with you here - again for the most part.
Most of the ones that you list above can be put in the cost savings bucket. If it's just pure cost savings, or if money is being used elsewhere, or if parts wore out that could not be replaced in a practical way, or for some other reason - that can be open to debate. But I can agree the guest was either ignored, or factored into the equation and determined to be a non-factor as compared to the other reasons (that we do not know about).
However, the dubming down of the TTA narration confuses me. It cost money to change the narration. So why would they make it 'dumber'? That's something I cannot understand. I am going to make a guess here and say WDW/WDI does not change things on a whim. They are changed for financial, engineering, legal, or guest satisfaction reasons. (if anybody can think of another reason, please chime in)
Lets look at these reasons
Financial - Nope, if anything it costs money to change a narration
Engineering - I can't see how the script narration has any impact from an engineering standpoint. It's not as if they were worried about the dynamic response of the PA speakers they have, or the sound levels were not loud enought
Legal - I can't see this being a reason either.
So that leaves Guest Satisfaction. Which leads me to believe that the majority of guests want a dumber script (or that somehow Disney arrived at this conclusion) Quite frankly (and I am getting out my ladder to climb up on my high horse here) given the majority of the people I see in WDW, I can belive it.
Let's assume what I said above is true, that guests want things dumber. So now it becomes should WDW give guests what they want, or should they push to give the guests something better that some may not enjoy?
That's a tough choice. I for one would like to see WDW keep pushing the guest envelope. Offer up some things that make you think. Rides that invoke imagination rather than "look we went fast" Foods that make you say "I have never had that before, but I will try it rather than eat my 50,000th chicken nugget"
This thread and response made me stop and think this through, and I hate to say it, but I think part of the problem is markteing direction. WDW used to be a top shelf destination. When you went there you were spending a lot of money, but you expected a lot. It was not something most people did multiple times a year. When you went, you went with a different mindset. Now with PIN codes, discounts, dining plans, bounce backs and the other sundry deals it opens up WDW to more people on a regular basis. It has become a generic desitination. As such many of the details are lost on the average guest. The average guest wants to go fast, eat huge portions of cheap gruel, and buy any cheap trinket they can find that has mouse ears stuck on it. I really think, after typing all this and going over it in my head, that WDW is now catering to it's self fulfilled prophecy. If you price your resort to make it plain store brand artifically flavored vanilla ice cream availability, then you serve store brand bland vanilla ice cream. If you want to serve up the premium stuff, then you have to dish it out in those small expensive cartons.
I think too many people have become used to WDW selling its "ice cream" in five gallon pails for $10.
-dave