Why is everyone so upset?!

[Phonedave]

I vote we close this one up.

Why

This seems to be one of the better threads on the subject.

Nobody is calling anyone a fanboi, or a hate monger, or saying "If you don't like it then don't go"

I happen to think 20K and I are having a very good discussion. Neither of us are trying to "win". I know that when I am writing my posts I am thinking about what I am writing and at times refining my thoughts about the entire subject.

-dave

 

[jakeman]

So...are you insinuating that some of us "hate" Disney? I don't think that's possible on a board like this! :lol: We obviously all have a connection, and a love or a passion for WDW, while we might critique it, and demand a better product, I think it's because we still love it. :wave:

I think he just said it. No insinuating there at all. :ROFLOL:

And I agree with him. Some people just like to hate things. Some people like to revel in the past and nothing in the present will please them.

After literally thousands of post deriding a product, it causes sensible people to wonder why a poster continues to consume the product that causes them such anguish.

Sometimes its not about demanding a better product, sometimes its just about hearing yourself talk and seeing how many people you can get to agree with you.

It's not you. It's not even a vast majority of the posters here, but there is a very, very vocal minority that it does apply to.

And hate and anger are far too strong of words to use for something Disney. :lol: It's all relative. This has no effect on my outlook in real life whatsoever.

I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I've never considered you in the "why is everyone upset?" group.

 

[raven]

So...are you insinuating that some of us "hate" Disney? I don't think that's possible on a board like this! :lol: We obviously all have a connection, and a love or a passion for WDW, while we might critique it, and demand a better product, I think it's because we still love it. :wave:


And hate and anger are far too strong of words to use for something Disney. :lol: It's all relative. This has no effect on my outlook in real life whatsoever.

Actually there are people that are anti-Disney that come on here and try to change people's minds about the parks and the company. Weird but true. I got into a heated debate a year or so ago with some guy that bashed the parks and was all pro Universal. So yes, they are here.

 

[Jasonflz]

Actually there are people that are anti-Disney that come on here and try to change people's minds about the parks and the company. Weird but true. I got into a heated debate a year or so ago with some guy that bashed the parks and was all pro Universal. So yes, they are here.

:brick::brick::brick:

Frustrating, huh. I would easily tell them 50 reasons why Universal doesn't come close to Disney.

 

[Krack2]

I think he just said it. No insinuating there at all. :ROFLOL:

And I agree with him. Some people just like to hate things. Some people like to revel in the past and nothing in the present will please them.

After literally thousands of post deriding a product, it causes sensible people to wonder why a poster continues to consume the product that causes them such anguish.

Sometimes its not about demanding a better product, sometimes its just about hearing yourself talk and seeing how many people you can get to agree with you.

It's not you. It's not even a vast majority of the posters here, but there is a very, very vocal minority that it does apply to.

I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I've never considered you in the "why is everyone upset?" group.

I don't know if I agree with you. For example, myself ... you might be able to say that I hate Epcot. I don't know if I do or I don't, but using the criteria you mention above, it certainly seems you'd say I do. I complain about Epcot constantly.

Now, I don't know if I'd say I hate Epcot. I know for a fact that I love EPCOT Center (for at least it's first decade). It was my favorite park, it contained my favorite attraction in any park (and still does, the American Adventure) ... I pretty much loved everything about it. That's ages 6 to 16 for me.

Is it really fair to say I hate Epcot (or Disney?) just because I really don't like about 90% of the alterations/changes/decisions made within the park since the early 90s? Do most people spend a lot of time thinking/talking about things they hate? Or is it more true that people generally spend a lot of time thinking/talking about how to make something they love better?

As an aside, I'm one of those who have spoken with their pocketbook. I'm in my thirties, I have more disposable income than I know what to do with and I travel/vacation often. And if the resort was where I'd like it to be, my 2-day trips once a year would turn into week long vacations overnight. But they're not. Everytime I go lately, I wind up spending a portion of my return trip home thinking "I can't believe they did X, Y and Z; they ruined it." Frankly, (as sad as this is) I find it somewhat upsetting.

 

[raven]

As an aside, I'm one of those who have spoken with their pocketbook. I'm in my thirties, I have more disposable income than I know what to do with and I travel/vacation often. And if the resort was where I'd like it to be, my 2-day trips once a year would turn into week long vacations overnight. But they're not. Everytime I go lately, I wind up spending a portion of my return trip home thinking "I can't believe they did X, Y and Z; they ruined it." Frankly, (as sad as this is) I find it somewhat upsetting.

I'm sorry. But with a statement like that it makes it sounds as if you are too good for the petty little things that others have come to love so much. I realize that you don't like the updates to Epcot but it is what is is and the past has past. Whether you like it or not and choose to spend your "deposable income" elsewehere, someone else will pick up the slack and spend their money and time there. Just be sensitive to that.

 

[Krack2]

I'm sorry. But with a statement like that it makes it sounds as if you are too good for the petty little things that others have come to love so much. I realize that you don't like the updates to Epcot but it is what is is and the past has past. Whether you like it or not and choose to spend your "deposable income" elsewehere, someone else will pick up the slack and spend their money and time there. Just be sensitive to that.

As I said earlier (in I think this thread, might be the other one covering the same topic), if you like something and can afford it, you should do it and enjoy it. I don't think that's a bad thing, even if it's not something I enjoy myself.

My point is that my WDW vacations used to be something I enjoyed so much more and I simply don't believe I enjoy it less because I'm older. My further point, is that I'm finally at a point in my life where I have some time/money and I would love to spend it at WDW, but I'm finding that I enjoy my trips there less and less each time I go. Perhaps that's my moral failing, but I'd prefer things not be that way. And when I put thought into it (as I do often), I primarily blame management.

 

[krankenstein]

*backs away slowly* :lookaroun

 

[raven]

My point is that my WDW vacations used to be something I enjoyed so much more and I simply don't believe I enjoy it less because I'm older. My further point, is that I'm finally at a point in my life where I have some time/money and I would love to spend it at WDW, but I'm finding that I enjoy my trips there less and less each time I go. Perhaps that's my moral failing, but I'd prefer things not be that way. And when I put thought into it (as I do often), I primarily blame management.

The more you go the more you keep expecting more. Going twice a year makes you pretty much a regular and you have already seen and done everything. Disney really doesn't cater to these types but more to guests that are coming back after a few years away. So your expectations are going to be higher than someone who's been only once or twice. Management has nothing to do with expectations from guests coming that often.

 

[Krack2]

The more you go the more you keep expecting more. Going twice a year makes you pretty much a regular and you have already seen and done everything. Disney really doesn't cater to these types but more to guests that are coming back after a few years away. So your expectations are going to be higher than someone who's been only once or twice. Management has nothing to do with expectations from guests coming that often.

It's an interesting point you make, and I believe it's somewhat accurate. But it doesn't explain the fact that my primary complaint is that rides I've already ridden have been removed or closed - World of Motion, Horizons, original Journey Into Imagination, the previous version of Spaceship Earth, the Wonders of Life - and I can't experience them anymore. It's actually the exact opposite of the argument you are making.

 

[raven]

It's an interesting point you make, and I believe it's somewhat accurate. But it doesn't explain the fact that my primary complaint is that rides I've already ridden have been removed or closed - World of Motion, Horizons, original Journey Into Imagination, the previous version of Spaceship Earth, the Wonders of Life - and I can't experience them anymore. It's actually the exact opposite of the argument you are making.

Do you know the theme of Future World? Those rides were becoming dated and guest flow had dramatically dropped. The replacements have created new interest for guests who've been before and guests who have not. Technology is constantly shaping the minds of young people and they're not entertained by slow moving animatronics and outdated technology. To keep up with technology Epcot has to keep changing. That's one of the concepts of the park.

 

[Krack2]

Do you know the theme of Future World? Those rides were becoming dated and guest flow had dramatically dropped. The replacements have created new interest for guests who've been before and guests who have not. Technology is constantly shaping the minds of young people and they're not entertained by slow moving animatronics and outdated technology. To keep up with technology Epcot has to keep changing. That's one of the concepts of the park.

A cartoon fish hiding from its father represents the theme of Future World how again? Refresh my memory.

Here's another concept of the park:

We will have many pavilions, each focused on a particular subject matter. Each pavilion will show you the history of the subject, where we are now, and a look at where it will be in the future.

Like it or not, there was a historical component all over Future World. It was inherent in the theme. It's like whoever is making the decisions has either forgot this or ignoring it. In my opinion.

 

[raven]

A cartoon fish hiding from its father represents the theme of Future World how again? Refresh my memory.

And I'm sure the original JII had any more to do with that as well? Technology has become the "future" in Future World. The addition of Disney characters were implimented due to guest complaints. It might not have been you are I but they are there because guests have spoken up.

Where is that quote from?

 

[Krack2]

Technology has become the "future" in Future World

What's so technologically futuristic about getting in a car and driving around a track at 65 mph?

 

[raven]

What's so technologically futuristic about getting in a car and driving around a track at 65 mph?

Someone else can take this answer. It's quite obvios that no matter what becomes of Epcot you will never be impressed because you dwell on that past and won't accept the future.

 

[Krack2]

Someone else can take this answer. It's quite obvios that no matter what becomes of Epcot you will never be impressed because you dwell on that past and won't accept the future.

I like Soarin'. I just don't pretend I like every change WDW management makes just because they make it. Unfortunately, when it comes to Future World I think they've missed far more than they've been successful. However, you're right - I do dwell on the past.

 

[raven]

I like Soarin'. I just don't pretend I like every change WDW management makes just because they make it. Unfortunately, when it comes to Future World I think they've missed far more than they've been successful. However, you're right - I do dwell on the past.

Remember that WDW management isn't ultimately in charge of all of the changes. That comes from higher up. They listen to their guests through surveys, guest relations and through attendence and revenue in all of it's areas. If something isn't working for an extended period of time for any reason it seems to change. Future World is getting so hard to keep current because technology is constanly changing. In order to keep up with things they would be changing pavilions every year but that just doesn't work. So by calling it "Future World" they have created a challenge for themselves that they will never be able to keep up with.

As far as dwelling on the past we can learn from the past. But I tend to forget "everything that was" when I visit and try to focus on everything that is. Open yourself to new things and embrace what's their now because down the road even they will become things of the past. :animwink:

 

[Krack2]

Remember that WDW management isn't ultimately in charge of all of the changes. That comes from higher up.

I've been beating up Eisner (the end of his run) in one of these threads; does it get any higher than him?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

What's so technologically futuristic about getting in a car and driving around a track at 65 mph?

What's futuristic about singing dairy products?

 

[raven]

I've been beating up Eisner (the end of his run) in one of these threads; does it get any higher than him?

Well, I think his reign was a little too long and the power went to his head. He did wonderful things for the company when he came on board but he used his power to gain fame and set up his own financial future which ultimately cost him with shareholders. (He gets residuals for everything that was created by the company while he was in office) He tore apart a relationship with Pixar that had to be mended when he left just in order to release Cars. He tried to get rid of the last of the Disney blood in the company which in turn is what brought his fate. Even though it's been several years since his days as President and CEO things are still being repaired and will be for many years.