Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt

[Wilt Dasney]

Marvel definitely was more out of the blue, but it wasn't supposed to be as risky as can now be seen because Disney expected to be able to start manipulating like they did with Pixar.

It's a sort of irony, a high aversion to risk does push towards some risks when combined with arrogance (not entirely unexpected due to financial success) and misunderstanding. This is what lead to the deal with James Cameron. They think Harry Potter is big only because of its brand, regardless of content, and that Avatar is a guaranteed perennial franchise because of its box office. Like Pixar and Marvel, because they bought the right people, they will have something in spite of themselves but that doesn't mean they're supporting the right type of atmosphere to sustain what they're buying. This is exactly the sort of thing being discussed by Spielberg recently and his prediction of an impeding implosion in Hollywood. Big positive financials are masking a system that is eating away at itself and can only fail in a spectacular fashion.

This post reminds me of how teams that try to buy up the best players instead of nurturing talent grown through the farm system or acquired through the draft tend to do worse. The Yankees and Lakers are good examples. For all their championship success, you can point to years where ownership seemed more interested in doing it the easy way (remember Gary Payton and Karl Malone in LA?) and for all the big names, the magic just wasn't there.

I don't like the idea of Disney basically becoming an IP farm that gobbles up secondary properties and lets other people's creativity carry the day. It's cool to have Marvel, Henson and Lucas under the umbrella, but they shouldn't be driving the car.

 

[AintNoOtherMan]

I feel a little bit late (I've literally spent all night reading the whole thread), but I'm going to say what I think Disney should do about the 'problem' (Not really a problem, but for lack of a better word) that is DHS. This is not likely what will happen, but it is what I would do, maybe?

First, I'm not 100% sold on Carsland. I mean, it looks amazing and I'm dying to visit the one in DCA (and hopefully will in August!!!), but I'm not sure if it's a good investment. It's a risk to theme an entire land on a single franchise. Because in 20 years, Cars might not be so popular. Will Cars merch sell 20, 10, or even 5 years from now? Maybe, but not as much.

I am all for Pixar Place's expansion though. They could build a cars themed ride, the monsters inc. ride, and whatever other films they want to use. I don't even care as long as the rides are of high quality.

I am 110% onboard for a Star Wars themed land. I'm not a huge fan of the series, but it would be an incredible financial opportunity for Disney as well as a really cool theme and attractions.

Now, on to what should go in the changes...

The hat, just for aesthetic purposes.

The Backlot Tour, LMA, and Streets of America to make room Pixar Place.

Most of Streets of America, however, would be used for Star Wars land. I would also get for of Indiana Jones and AI Experience to use for Star Wars Land.

Of course, I would expect more than 4 rides if all of this went. And at that, this wouldn't be enough to make DHS as good as MK or EPCOT. It's, honestly, too late for that.

As for the muppets, they would be relocated to Hollywood Boulevard.

Earlier in the thread (maybe around page 13-20... Idk) someone mentioned moving the lights to Disney Springs and I think that's a great idea. The food and merch sold=huge profits.

The areas around the things I mentioned (Minor attractions I might have missed, restaurants, etc.) are included. I'm not typing every shop out lol.

Lastly, it should be announced when Disney knows they aren't turning back. And when they do announce it, I want it to be a huge announcement so they can't say "Eh, let's not do this. It's expensive." I don't want some pathetic announcement that never happens if it will never happen.

Like I said, it would take much more than this to truly make DHS on par with MK, EPCOT, or even DAK (although that's subjective). They would have to go into the parking lot or expand around the interstate for that to happen. But they should start with inside what's already there before moving outward. Again, this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not familiar with Spielberg's comments. Sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

It made pretty big news, here is one link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jun/13/steven-spielberg-george-lucas-film-industry
The concept of a bubble is rather well established, and there is nothing that makes Disney immune.

This post reminds me of how teams that try to buy up the best players instead of nurturing talent grown through the farm system or acquired through the draft tend to do worse. The Yankees and Lakers are good examples. For all their championship success, you can point to years where ownership seemed more interested in doing it the easy way (remember Gary Payton and Karl Malone in LA?) and for all the big names, the magic just wasn't there.

I don't like the idea of Disney basically becoming an IP farm that gobbles up secondary properties and lets other people's creativity carry the day. It's cool to have Marvel, Henson and Lucas under the umbrella, but they shouldn't be driving the car.

I'm not much of a sports guy, but you're right, this strategy has been seen multiple times in multiple fields. It is simply not sustainable. In some ways I think Iger knows this and that is part of why he has plans to leave. Better to get out on a high note than still be around when it starts to fall apart. Unfortunately, people will think he was doing something special and try to emulate him because he got out at the right time.

 

[PeterAlt]

If I'm understanding what you are saying I think I agree to some extent. D23 needs Star Wars Land a lot more than the other way around. D23 may be fighting for its existence but a big splash like Star Wars Land would keep it relevant. Where we disagree is that an announcement can't be part of D23 because it hasn't been leaked yet. There's still plenty of time and who is to say that this current leak wasn't to gain excitement for D23?

You're assuming its a leak...

 

[Ignohippo]

Muppets could do with a new show, though obviously the theater was especially designed for one show. It would be interesting if they could program two different shows and alternate them.

Even if Muppets was too unpopular to stay, (it is kinda in a less visited corner of the park at DCA, a place where Monsters Inc. is often a walk-on, I think the DHS area for Muppets is better, though it ain't no Muppets sub-land) . . . wouldn't they just reuse a big expensive theater for just another show? Can't believe that Mickey is so hard-up for space for StarWarsland that existing, (and relatively young compared to MK) infrastructure needs to be demolished. With a Muppets sequel being made, can't see Disney taking out the show. If you've never seen it then it a pretty good show, and it does entertain young kids . . .

MuppetVision 3d isn't going anywhere (unless it's replaced by a new Muppets show in the same theater).

I always choose to look at these rumors through common business sense first and not be clouded by my own fanboi hopes. I call complete bullspit on these rumors and I find it hard to believe they've gained so much traction.

1) MuppetVision 3d is almost always quite full (x the 15 or so shows it plays each day, and considering how old it is is simply remarkable)
2) if LMA gets replaced by CarsLand, MV3d will be desperately needed to eat capacity
3) if Indy gets replaced by Star Wars, MV3d will be desperately needed to eat capacity
4) TWDCo has spent years trying to rejuvenate the Muppets as a franchise. They're not going to remove their only theme park presence now that they've finally regained some sense of popularity
5) Pizza Planet is more than likely the #1 quick service restaurant at DHS. You don't simply remove a restaurant that's bringing in that much coin. On that point, we got CircusLand at MK mainly because they didn't want to replace the merchandise tent. Yes, a real Pizza Planet belongs in Pixar Place, but that building will always be around as a food service location as long as it continues to bring in the money that it currently brings in.
6) Mama Melrose's is at capacity nearly 100% of the time and one of the more popular restaurants at WDW
7) New York Street needs help, but it's also home to the Osbourne Lights. While only around for two months of the year, it's WDW's main draw during the holidays. It's designed for the street and can't be moved. New York Street may get some love, but it won't be going anywhere

8, and most importantly) THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM ELSEWHERE! If DHS gets SWland, that parking lot won't be able to hold the added capacity anyway. Garages are next for DHS. No reason a SW addition couldn't go into the existing lot or out into the non-developed areas.

 

[Rodan75]

Why would Disney wait until D23 to announce any potential DHS refreshing when if it includes any kind of Star Wars concept it would make better business sense to release this information in a more public manner?

If there is Star Wars, its bigger than D23.

Jimmy Thick- Fanobi's. Think of the Fanboi's.

I think the point was that this info was 'leaked' on the last day to buy D23 tickets at the per-order price. Disney is on the hook now, if they don't announce anything of this magnitude, D23 will die and the stock price will take a hit. ( monsters and ranger will determine how much)

 

[lazyboy97o]

7) New York Street needs help, but it's also home to the Osbourne Lights. While only around for two months of the year, it's WDW's main draw during the holidays. It's designed for the street and can't be moved. New York Street may get some love, but it won't be going anywhere

The Osbourne Family Spectacle of Dancing Lights were designed for a street in Arkansas, then adapted for Residential Street at the Disney-MGM Studios and then again adapted for the Streets of America. No reason they cannot be adapted again.

 

[GoofGoof]

You're assuming its a leak...

Well this Niles guy got the info somewhere. He reported it, others reported that he reported it and around and around we went. Where it got interesting for me was around when this thread started. @pheneix who started this thread seems to be pretty knowledgeable and brought a lot of details to the table. He/she passes the BS test in my book. 74 confirmed on his thread that he checked with his sources and a lot of what was reported seems to be the plan currently on the table. So far only 1 poster has come out and said this is all bogus and a false rumor but that seems to be based only on opinion. In the real world I don't know any of these people and it could all be made up, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. If the info got out it was leaked from someone. They could have an actual motive or just a big mouth but in either case its a leak.

 

[GoofGoof]

The Osbourne Family Spectacle of Dancing Lights were designed for a street in Arkansas, then adapted for Residential Street at the Disney-MGM Studios and then again adapted for the Streets of America. No reason they cannot be adapted again.

I'll take em at my house as long as I get the team of cast members to set them up and reimbursement for my electric bill. Charge $5 per car to drive up and sell hot cocoa and t-shirts. Don't worry, you guys will get in for free

Seriously, the West Side of Disney Springs or maybe the Marketplace. Perfect spots with a little adaption.

 

[Ignohippo]

The Osbourne Family Spectacle of Dancing Lights were designed for a street in Arkansas, then adapted for Residential Street at the Disney-MGM Studios and then again adapted for the Streets of America. No reason they cannot be adapted again.

Okay then, tell me where. Yes, many of the props were from the Osbourne home in Arkansas, but that's a tiny fraction of what has been created since it came to DHS.

There is no place else in WDW, besides maybe Main Street at MK (and that ain't happening!) that could house it. No place even close.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think the point was that this info was 'leaked' on the last day to buy D23 tickets at the per-order price. Disney is on the hook now, if they don't announce anything of this magnitude, D23 will die and the stock price will take a hit. ( monsters and ranger will determine how much)

I haven't seen anything on CNN, doubt that anybody besides fans know about these . . . very odd speculations. Anyway, parks represent only a small part of the valuation of Disney, in part because of upkeep.

Parks and Resorts: 18.6% of stock price, (includes Hawaii resort and cruise ships I believe).
ESPN is 40% of the stock value, estimated to have brought in $11 billion last year.

http://www.trefis.com/stock/dis/art...llion-which-we-have-said-all-along/2012-12-19

Not saying that the parks don't matter . . .

I don't think Disney "leaked" anything, hence they aren't responsible for the effects of this, if any. Didn't D23 sell out last year?

 

[topher]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really think most people are undervaluing the Osbourne Lights importance. I know we all want a new spinning ride that looks like towmater or an extra stormtrooper walking around but it won't come at the expense of something that generates that much revenue.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You're assuming its a leak...

You're leaking it's an assumption...

 

[RunOrlando]

This post reminds me of how teams that try to buy up the best players instead of nurturing talent grown through the farm system or acquired through the draft tend to do worse. The Yankees and Lakers are good examples. For all their championship success, you can point to years where ownership seemed more interested in doing it the easy way (remember Gary Payton and Karl Malone in LA?) and for all the big names, the magic just wasn't there.

I don't like the idea of Disney basically becoming an IP farm that gobbles up secondary properties and lets other people's creativity carry the day. It's cool to have Marvel, Henson and Lucas under the umbrella, but they shouldn't be driving the car.

You're comparing 2 unlike things.

Athletes have a prime, and in sports there has to be some sharing. Yes, rides usually have a prime and they lose their popularity, but Disney has some rides that are classics and don't seem to fade away (ie Small World, Peter Pan, Pirates).

I'm a huge comics & Star Wars fan. If not for Disney buying those properties we wouldn't have an Avengers movie, & 3 new Star Wars films on the way. Buying these properties has made me a bigger Disney fan.

 

[Ignohippo]

Seriously, the West Side of Disney Springs or maybe the Marketplace. Perfect spots with a little adaption.

The West Side at DTD (I refuse to call it Disney Springs - sounds like a retirement community) is a BRILLIANT idea, but I don't think they'd want the place to get that logjammed. It's hard to get through there now when it's busy. Adding the Osbourne Lights would make it impossible. Retail would probably die in that area because no one could get to the shops. The new upper level train tracks will probably make that even more difficult.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Okay then smart guy, tell me where. Yes, many of the props were from the Osbourne home in Arkansas, but that's a tiny fraction of what has been created since it came to DHS.

There is no place else in WDW, besides maybe Main Street at MK (and that ain't happening!) that could house it. No place even close.

Disney has twice moved and adjusted the display for new locations. That doesn't change because I don't Armchair Imagineer a new plan, but it does show your statement of the display being designed specifically its current location to be false.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really think most people are undervaluing the Osbourne Lights importance. I know we all want a new spinning ride that looks like towmater or an extra stormtrooper walking around but it won't come at the expense of something that generates that much revenue.

If Disney thinks they can generate more revenue with something else, then they will have no qualms about ripping out anything.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Well this Niles guy got the info somewhere. He reported it, others reported that he reported it and around and around we went. Where it got interesting for me was around when this thread started. @pheneix who started this thread seems to be pretty knowledgeable and brought a lot of details to the table. He/she passes the BS test in my book. 74 confirmed on his thread that he checked with his sources and a lot of what was reported seems to be the plan currently on the table. So far only 1 poster has come out and said this is all bogus and a false rumor but that seems to be based only on opinion. In the real world I don't know any of these people and it could all be made up, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. If the info got out it was leaked from someone. They could have an actual motive or just a big mouth but in either case its a leak.

1. We don't know that this Niles person got his info from anywhere. His job is to publish interesting fan news and get people to his website. I don't trust somebody just because they have a website.

2. @pheneix made comments about hoping that the controversial thread would smoke out what Disney has planned for DHS.

3. Insiders, even if truthful, can be mistaken, can "leak" info that is misinterpreted as fact, rather than "I overheard somebody at WDI talking about x, y and z."

4. The leaked "plans" are pretty amazing . . . considering all three of them are exactly what fans have been postulating, and that some of them face steep logistical issues. It is very doubtful that Disney would embark on all three of these projects. Seems more likely a fan, somewhere has said, "I want something for DHS, publish it that EVERYTHING will happen, and maybe Disney will relent and have to say, Well . . . we aren't going to do all of A,B, and C . . . but we will do B. Or maybe another insider will perk up and confirm C but not A and B.

5. Proponents give the appearance of distorting the situation with DHS, at least so far as making claims that run counter to recently published info. Suggesting that there is a coverup at Burbank, that Iger is lying . . .

6. The rumors have kinda shifted around a bit. And, of course it is emphasized that these are just "plans", but also strongly implied, by Niles and others, that this is it. This is what Disney secretly plans on doing and it has the green light.

7. The insiders were clueless about NFL, and were clueless about the Star Wars acquisition.

8. There were rumors probably over half a year ago regarding Carsland at DHS, I was told that bulldozers would be seen within months and folks were very angry that I basically said, "not so fast." Well, don't see them yet. I can see somebody saying, "well, you'll be pleasantly surprised", but the rumor mill folks seem very upset when I don't buy what they're selling. If it is just a rumor they are passing on, why all the angst?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

MuppetVision 3d isn't going anywhere (unless it's replaced by a new Muppets show in the same theater).

I always choose to look at these rumors through common business sense first and not be clouded by my own fanboi hopes. I call complete bullspit on these rumors and I find it hard to believe they've gained so much traction.

Agree. There's always a financial aspect to major decisions at the parks. I find the Muppets will be gone rumor very hard to believe. I can see that fans who have watched Carsland being built at DCA would conclude, and earnestly hope, that such a project would be undertaken at WDW.

5) Pizza Planet is more than likely the #1 quick service restaurant at DHS. You don't simply remove a restaurant that's bringing in that much coin. On that point, we got CircusLand at MK mainly because they didn't want to replace the merchandise tent. Yes, a real Pizza Planet belongs in Pixar Place, but that building will always be around as a food service location as long as it continues to bring in the money that it currently brings in.
6) Mama Melrose's is at capacity nearly 100% of the time and one of the more popular restaurants at WDW
7) New York Street needs help, but it's also home to the Osbourne Lights. While only around for two months of the year, it's WDW's main draw during the holidays. It's designed for the street and can't be moved. New York Street may get some love, but it won't be going anywhere

8, and most importantly) THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM ELSEWHERE! If DHS gets SWland, that parking lot won't be able to hold the added capacity anyway. Garages are next for DHS. No reason a SW addition couldn't go into the existing lot or out into the non-developed areas.

100% agree that as a business decision, putting StarWarsland on undeveloped land keeps current attractions open to handle capacity, and when its finished, old attractions could be upgraded . . . if its coming to DHS, assuming that it is coming to WDW in the next decade.

There weren't very many wrecking balls in DCA . . . they put new facades on Sunshine Plaza, took out the hubcap for the Carthay, and built Carsland on a parking lot.

I think that the rumor mill had to say that Disney decided that Carsland, StarWarsland and Pixar rides are coming to DHS . . . if they said all of these plans are on the table to happen at the same time, people would yawn and say, 'yeah right.'

 

[disney fan 13]

I'm late, (Sorta taken time off from all the forums.) but I have a few comments...

1.It'd be wise for TWDC to get a Star Wars land up soon to catch the new fans that the new movies (assuming they are good.) and TV shows are going to bring in. Plus EA (Electronic Arts) recently acquired the SW gaming license and will be releasing a new Battlefront, which, if done anything like how BF4 is being done, should pump some huge interest in the franchise for more games. (KOTOR Please.) and help acquire the younger male demographic.

2. In my opinion the west side of the park is in dire need of a change, it has no theme unlike the east side. Pixarland and SWland will help out hopefully with a Project Sparkle thrown in as well.

3. I doubt this is going to happen.

 

[eastvillage]

Carsland in DCA was built on a parking lot that wasn't generating revenue. Fans need to look at maps of empty lots and parking lots to figure out where Carsland will go as Disney make rational financial decisions more often than not.

Also, after watching YouTube videos of Carsland at DCA and having visited the Cars wing at Art of Animation, I don't really see why it would make good sense to have two versions of Radiator Springs at WDW (AoA and DHS).