Why haven't you joined DVC???

[awilliams4]

All of the DVC properties save for BLT and AKL, neither of which were even rumored when we took the tours, require a 2br for a party of 5.

Vero Beach, Grand Californian Villas and Aulani sleep 5 now as well in a 1 Bedroom.

 

[Master Yoda]

Vero Beach, Grand Californian Villas and Aulani sleep 5 now as well in a 1 Bedroom.

I was referring to the DVC properties at WDW.

 

[lumpydj]

I never said it was an apples to apples comparison in terms of room size. What I said was, DVC tries to make it out like you are guaranteed to save tons of money, and that is not always the case. I'm using $110 because that's what Disney is currently charging. If you buy from the Timeshare Store, you only get DVC for what, another 32 years.

For our last trip, at the Polynesian, we paid $276 tax included per night.

I used $5.20 per point, as I'm using the Wilderness Lodge Villas as an example. I don't care for BLT, thus would have no interest in buying or staying there.

There's no 2 ways about it - You gotta buy resale. Buying through Disney makes zero sense.

Of course rack rates are going to increase, but in my calculations, I've also left out room discounts.

I'm sure what you paid at Poly is a discounted rate. Believe me, I've done many spreadsheets with point and price escalators and found my breakeven point at 15 years. After that, I save on my vacations. Going with DVC allows me to stay at Deluxe resorts where before, I couldn't justify the cost.

Now that I've stayed at a DVC, it's hard to go back to a standard hotel room anywhere. I LIKE not having daily housekeeping - I don't want strangers in my room going through my stuff and having to worry about things getting stolen. I just need to throw the sheets and comforter over the bed and I'm good! I LOVE having a washer and dryer so I don't have to do laundry when I get home and ruin that "vacation" feeling. I LOVE being able to have a quick bagel/toast or cereal in the morning - I don't like having a big/huge breakfast every morning. I also don't like having muffins or pastries in the morning either. I LOVE having tons of room to store my stuff. I HATE to live out of a suitcase or have the one table in the room covered with crap. We tend to spend at least 1 whole day at the resort, in the room for some decompress time. I like having a living room area to do that and not have to go to the CS at the resort to eat. We have an Owners Locker so we can store all our full size toiletries without having to pack them each time. Packing is SO much easier now.

I will admit that we purchased DVC with some emotional decisions, but I made sure it also made financial sense for us. I know that I will continue to go to Disney almost every year for the next 47 years (unless I die before then). It's totally an individual decision and it certainly does not work for everyone. However, if you are a timeshare candidate and like to go to Disney often, DVC should be a consideration.:wave:

 

[tjkraz]

I never said it was an apples to apples comparison in terms of room size. What I said was, DVC tries to make it out like you are guaranteed to save tons of money, and that is not always the case.

Well, gee, why don't we compare to paying $40 per night to stay off-site then? Who cares about apples to apples? :ROFLOL:

There's no 2 ways about it - You gotta buy resale. Buying through Disney makes zero sense.

Depends upon the situation. Allow me to illustrate.

Calculating breakeven points is all well and good but cynics tend to discount the latter years of dramatic savings while focusing on the up-front period where DVC may cost more than paying cash.

A better way to analyze it (IMO) is to express all dollars on a per-year basis. In each case we know what is being paid up front so why not spread that out over the full ownership period.

As I said, there are VWL points available on the resale market for under $70 per point. For the sake of argument, I'll use the figure $75 per point as a purchase price. And I'll also assume that the purchase will be funded with a home equity line at 4% interest over 10 years.

The total cost including interest is $91 per point. VWL contracts expire in 2042 giving a buyer 32 years of ownership. $91 / 32 years means you are paying $2.84 per point, per year to buy the VWL contract.

Take the $2.84 and add in 2010 dues of $5.20 per point. Using those numbers we can conclude that a single VWL point in 2010 is costing a DVC owner $8.04.

Then it's just a question of how the points are used.

A 360 sq ft Deluxe Studio room in January runs 105 points per week. At the $8.04 per point rate, that Studio costs the owner $844 per week or $120 per night. Period. No taxes. No additional fees. $120 per night for a room that is comparable in size and amenities to any other Wilderness Lodge guest room.

A 700+ sq ft One Bedroom villa is 206 points for the same time period or $236 per night. A Studio in the summer is either 118 or 127 points per week or $135 - 145 per night.

Those numbers are all expressed in 2010 dollars, of course. Annual dues will increase over time, but so will rack rates. In fact, room rates are subject to even more radical adjustments since Disney can discount at its whim. One year they offer a 40% discount. The next year it's 15%. Then it's 25%. There is no way to plan or budget for such unknowns.

Meanwhile, as a DVC member I KNOW that my rates are locked in. I'm saving 65-75% off of rack rates for the next 30-50 years regardless of what sort of discounts Disney decides to offer cash guests. (And they aren't going to discount by 75% )

As for other purchase options, turns out the VWL resale is actually the most expensive I looked at. Buying SSR resale for $65 per point ($79 per point when interest is added) plus the dues of $4.46 in 2010 comes out to $6.25 per point, per year. If I use SSR resale points to book that VWL Studio in the summer, it costs me only $105 per night.

Even a direct purchase of Bay Lake Tower is reasonable due to the longer contract and lower dues. At $110 per point ($133 with 10 years of interest) plus the $3.78 in dues, the annual cost is just $6.44 per point, per year.

I certainly understand that there are many reasons not to buy into DVC. If you don't like the villa setup, the need to book months in advance or the limited inventory at some properties, so be it. But please don't use your fabricated numbers to allege that DVC is a bad deal because a One Bedroom Villa costs more than your standard view room at the Wilderness Lodge. In any honest apples-to-apples comparison, DVC will cost less than even discounted Deluxe cash rooms.

And that's not even mentioning a few extra perks like free Internet service, Annual Pass discounts ($100-125 off per person, per year), dining discounts, added flexibility in booking dining plans, etc.

 

[Epcotian]

I debated between "we don't go often enough" and "too expensive." I picked "we don't go often enough" because we choose to not do so for financial and non-financial reasons. Financially, it's not that we don't have the cash available to go every year or two. We could certainly do that without incurring debt. But, I can't justify spending that much every year, even with DVC, as it would still be expensive for us to get there and buy passes. Not with college to save for, retirement to fund, etc. It just seems too frivolous, for our situation.

However, even if we could visit every year or two and still meet every other financial goal we have, we still wouldn't because there are lots of other places we want to visit too.

 

[DVCOwner]

I think that some will like DVC and some will not no matter what the cost or savings is or is not. Why I got into DVC is that I always go to WDW with family and friends. We like to hang out in the room in the late evenings and have a drink and some snacks. I can not afford a suite at standard pricing, but I can with DVC. We also feed the grandkids breakfast in the rooms before heading to the parks.

I travel with two other families that have DVC and we get enough rooms depending on the size of the group. Last trip we had 32 people along and had 7 rooms including a grand villa. Every night after the parks closed down there was a big party in the living room area at the grand villa. This year we are traveling with 13 people and have just 3 rooms at the BLT. To me that is why I got DVC. By banking and borrowing points we can adjust to the size of the group each trip and skip years if we want. To me DVC is the only way I can have a large room for everyone to get together and enjoy ourselfs.

I would never buy a time share with a set week that you have to travel.

 

[disneyrcks]

Great topic OP...sorry I will be off topic as I too am DVC. I think there are some great arguments in this thread for both for and against. As of now buying into DVC was the greatest thing we ever did. We bought low and only have 160 points per year but right now it is just me and my husband. Our monthly payment is not high at all and we got a really good "special" when we joined: $1000 gift card for Disney (with a unique sales spin) and 160 extra points to be used at Saratoga Springs or DCA within 8 months of joining. The gift card could of been given to us to use at Disney as we pleased however our DVC guide (who is soooo great) told us we could use it as our down payment. Also we liked the idea of how long it lasted and that we can use it across the USA (adventures by Disney is too many points for us at this point). Eventhough we live in NY we are AP holders and get a great discount, plus if a good special came up and we booked a Disney vacay at a reasonable cash rate maybe we can take two trips in one year by using our points in another state. Joining with the special we got, our cash downpayment stretched more and we were able to take 3 Disney trips last year. But now that I see some of the other view points on here, it would not have hurt to check out the resale market....but what's done is done

 

[jeffk410]

because its not deeded like other timeshares =/ .

 

[captainkidd]

4
But please don't use your fabricated numbers to allege that DVC is a bad deal because a One Bedroom Villa costs more than your standard view room at the Wilderness Lodge. In any honest apples-to-apples comparison, DVC will cost less than even discounted Deluxe cash rooms.

And that's not even mentioning a few extra perks like free Internet service, Annual Pass discounts ($100-125 off per person, per year), dining discounts, added flexibility in booking dining plans, etc.

To be fair, it may not be an apples to apples comparison, but my numbers aren't fabricated. We were quoted 12.5% interest by Disney. As for the perks, that's not a selling point for me, other than the AP discount. That would be nice since we're AP holders. But as AP (and TIW) holders, we get discounts on dining anyway.

There are other, more known reasons for us as well. We'd like to try some vacations not included in DVC (Other cruise lines besides Disney, Cattle Drives), and as our oldest hits college, we'll be taking the younger kids to Disney but staying at Values and Mods.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

1. If we had enough cash to pay the cost of the necessary DVC points up front, it might be a good buy.
2. Also, there are no discounts for points. For example, if I get the 4/3 deal, I don't get 7 nights for the cost of 4 nights worth of points.
3. I think it might be more of a hassle than it's worth to calculate the best uses of points. I'd feel obligated to stay in resorts that gave me the maximum number of days for my points rather than the resort I'd like most to stay at. I know the same can be said for making the best use of my cash. However, I don't view it like that. I have reasons, but they complicated and probably wouldn't make sense without understanding how my personal (il)logic works.
4. Lastly, the amount of points we'd need is insane. We go for at least two weeks in the summer. We are also going to add a smaller trip or two in there as well.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

To be fair, it may not be an apples to apples comparison, but my numbers aren't fabricated. We were quoted 12.5% interest by Disney. As for the perks, that's not a selling point for me, other than the AP discount. That would be nice since we're AP holders. But as AP (and TIW) holders, we get discounts on dining anyway.

There are other, more known reasons for us as well. We'd like to try some vacations not included in DVC (Other cruise lines besides Disney, Cattle Drives), and as our oldest hits college, we'll be taking the younger kids to Disney but staying at Values and Mods.

I agree. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I feel like I get more bang for my buck in non-DVC rooms. The housekeeping thing bugs me. I'm on vacation. I want someone else to make my bed, clean my bathroom, bring me fresh towels, and make towel animals. If I understand DVC correctly, you do not get maid service each day.

My bad...mousekeeping service.

 

[Mammymouse]

We are DVC and I explained in my earlier post here how we got into it so I won't rehash that . And I'm not trying to change anyone's mind over going DVC or not. It works for us and we have been happy with it. But it seems the housekeeping thing is an issue for some. Well you get it twice a week, and I may be wrong, but I don't know anyone who changes their sheets at home more often than twice a week. And we have always re-used our towels at home also. I guess us country folk have always been more conscious of water and where it goes because we are on private wells and septic systems. Also if you are not eating at the unit then why have you got dishes and a kitchen to clean? We don't, but occasionally when we do (morning coffee, snacks) I have no problem throwing away my trash in the basket, and there is a dishwasher for the occasional glasses or silverware. The only other thing is how you take care of your personal items like clothes and toiletries, which I wouldn't expect housekeeping to touch anyway. Just my take on it.

 

[Pippa]

Thats awesome pippa! We do the same, I take all my nephews and some family members always, we love to share the Magic.

I'm borrowing and banking points (I only have 180 a year) to have a holiday to a 2BR at AKL with my best friend, her husband and 3 children. They get an awesome resort and their own personal WDW guide too!!

 

[mickeysimzac]

We bought a resale at OKW 4 years ago. After 3 wonderful trips, we had to sell due to the poor economy affecting my income. Just don't see us buying back in sometime soon, if ever.

 

[Magenta Panther]

The reason I haven't joined DVC is because I'm single, and for me, I'm not sure that a timeshare is more desirable than just booking a hotel room in the parks. For families, I can see DVC's worth, but for a single, I don't know...

 

[Tazer19]

We're only in our mid/late 20's so it's more of a no brainer for us and we did look at it last time down (2008), but in the end this why we didn't buy in:

1. Finishing off student loans, buying a house and starting a significant savings were the top priorities over the last few years... all of which have been accomplished.
2. As much as we love Disney, there are still a lot more places we'd like to visit around the world... heck, even just the U.S. With this type of investment, in my mind I'd feel we'd have to vacation there whenever possible, even if that's not true.

We've had the luxury of renting family members points and love it, but even now it doesn't make enough economical sense for us.

 

[Phonedave]

I agree. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I feel like I get more bang for my buck in non-DVC rooms. The housekeeping thing bugs me. I'm on vacation. I want someone else to make my bed, clean my bathroom, bring me fresh towels, and make towel animals. If I understand DVC correctly, you do not get maid service each day.

My bad...mousekeeping service.

If you want, you can pay for daily mousekeeping.

I LIKE that. Mousekeeping comes out of my dues. Having it one the 3 / 7 day schedule keeps annual dues low. Having the option to pay for daily service if you want it puts that extra cost on the shoulder of the people that actually desire it.

Very fair if you ask me.


-dave

 

[Computer Magic]

To take from Doug: "you never really stop paying for DVC". I'm not sure I will be going to Disney in 40 years. I'll be in my late 70's. If I did I would need a scooter and we all know how those are excepted in Disney LOL

And the DVC operator has the right (and has already used it) to re-allocate the number of points required for a week day stay versus a weekend stay, so that if I purchase less than a full week of points, I do not know with certainty whether I will have enough points to stay in a particular window of days if I go the same week every year.


I like daily housekeeping.

I don't like villa style accomadations.

There are the other reasons such as having the flexibility to spend those vacation dollars on cruises and vacations to non-Disney places without the restrictions that come with trying to use points and so forth, and the value of money that must be invested in a DVC contract: cash or credit, and other complicated issues.

I looked at DVC in 2007 when I was going on Adventure by Disney and thought that would be a good way to offset our cost. It was not worth it at the time. I think I would have removed $700 from our trip for two. So at the time, the best option would to always use the points on a theme park vacation.

 

[Monty]

I haven't [and won't] for the simple reason that it doesn't fit with my long-term plan to buy a vacation home near WDW once I retire [in nine years]. If I weren't planning that, I'd have bought DVC years ago.

 

[captainkidd]

If you want, you can pay for daily mousekeeping.

I LIKE that. Mousekeeping comes out of my dues. Having it one the 3 / 7 day schedule keeps annual dues low. Having the option to pay for daily service if you want it puts that extra cost on the shoulder of the people that actually desire it.

Very fair if you ask me.


-dave

The point people are making is in a standard room, you get daily housekeeping without an additional charge.

As for the dues being low, that depends. If you're like me, and you'd like to own at WLV, dues are $5.10 per point. We'd need 374 points for our summer vacations, which equals almost $2,000 a year in dues. That's not low in my opinion.