Why haven't you joined DVC???

[DisneyPhD]

As for the dues being low, that depends. If you're like me, and you'd like to own at WLV, dues are $5.10 per point. We'd need 374 points for our summer vacations, which equals almost $2,000 a year in dues. That's not low in my opinion.

Just curious, but how much are you paying for a room at WL. For the number of points you quoted, that’s enough for more than a week in a 2BR at VWL. I presume you need that much room because you have more than 4 people in your party in which case you would need two regular WL rooms to accommodate your party. Seven nights in Two rooms at WL in June rack rate are 2 x $2395 x 12.5% = $5388.75. (Alternatively, there is a deluxe room at WL that sleeps six which runs $5135.63 for the week) If you get a 40% off discount code that’s $3233.25 for the week for the two woods view rooms. The same week in a 2BR in June is 350 points @ $5.10 = $1785 in dues.

 

[tjkraz]

To be fair, it may not be an apples to apples comparison, but my numbers aren't fabricated.

Fabricated...incorrect...wrong...pick your adjective.

In my post I demonstrated how points are readily available for $65 per point or less. Timeshare Store has listings on their site now for less than $50 per point.

Basing your entire argument around a $110 per point figure is...wrong. Period.

You're also way off base in implying that the best apples-to-apples comparison to a standard hotel room at the Wilderness Lodge is a 700 sq ft One Bedroom DVC villa.

We were quoted 12.5% interest by Disney.

DVC has never offered such a rate in the last decade. About 6-7 years ago the rate was 9.75% and it's currently 10.75%. But really their rate is irrelevant. There is no obligation to finance through DVC. Buyers can use a home equity line or any other financing method of their choice. Home equity loans are under 4% these days.

There are other, more known reasons for us as well. We'd like to try some vacations not included in DVC (Other cruise lines besides Disney, Cattle Drives), and as our oldest hits college, we'll be taking the younger kids to Disney but staying at Values and Mods.

And that's fine. I could name a dozen different reasons why DVC isn't right for many people without breaking a sweat.

But you're doing yourself a disservice with the horribly flawed mathematics. If you don't like the Studio villa setup, want greater flexibility and so on, so be it. Absolutely no arguments here.

But please don't throw out comparisons that involve twice the number of points you would really need (a Studio is 169 points for 9 nights in the summer) and a price point which is double the current market, and pat yourself on the back for beating Disney at its own game.

Every single DVC member is getting their accommodations for far less than even your discounted rack rates. Count on it. But if you're willing to pay more for the flexibility inherent to booking 2-3 weeks per year through CRO, more power to you.

 

[tjkraz]

The point people are making is in a standard room, you get daily housekeeping without an additional charge.

And as I illustrated a few pages ago, even by paying for daily housekeeping you're still saving 70% off of rack.

Don't kid yourself--we are BOTH paying for housekeeping. You get a single bill at check out. A DVC member's cost (if they want extra housekeeping) is spread out between the dues and the extra fees.

In the end, the DVC member is still paying less.

 

[disneyrcks]

We bought in about a year and a half ago and our interest rate was 9% (ish) lol...however we asked if there would be a penalty to pay off early instead of financing for 10 years and we were told no....so we plan to pay it early by utilizing a lower interest option....12.5% or even 9% is very high especially for people with very good credit.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

End point - DVC is a good value for some people; others see it as something not of value for them. It's like staying on property vs. staying off property. Everyone has valid reasons for their choice. It's good to read threads like this because it causes you to reflect on different perspectives.

 

[captainkidd]

Fabricated...incorrect...wrong...pick your adjective.

Sorry. Just going by what I was told we would need and what we would get. You're going purely off of resales, which not everyone is comfortable with.

In my post I demonstrated how points are readily available for $65 per point or less. Timeshare Store has listings on their site now for less than $50 per point.

See post above.

Basing your entire argument around a $110 per point figure is...wrong. Period.

What is the current price per point through Disney?

You're also way off base in implying that the best apples-to-apples comparison to a standard hotel room at the Wilderness Lodge is a 700 sq ft One Bedroom DVC villa.

Again, I never said it was apples to apples. But there are tradeoffs. Standard Room - Better location, housekeeping.

DVC has never offered such a rate in the last decade. About 6-7 years ago the rate was 9.75% and it's currently 10.75%. But really their rate is irrelevant. There is no obligation to finance through DVC. Buyers can use a home equity line or any other financing method of their choice. Home equity loans are under 4% these days.

We don't own a home, we rent. I was quoted 13% through the Timeshare Store. Granted, they gave me the 12.5% of Disney. When I asked Disney last, they were about 10.75%.

But you're doing yourself a disservice with the horribly flawed mathematics. If you don't like the Studio villa setup, want greater flexibility and so on, so be it. Absolutely no arguments here.

It's not "horribly flawed". It's a realistic, honest to goodness look through buying from Disney.

But please don't throw out comparisons that involve twice the number of points you would really need (a Studio is 169 points for 9 nights in the summer) and a price point which is double the current market, and pat yourself on the back for beating Disney at its own game.

We're a family of 5. We can't all stay in a studio. We'd need at least a 1 bedroom, which for 2 weeks in the summer is 374 points. I'm not patting myself on the back or trying to beat Disnet at anything. Do you think DVC is a charity program offered by DVC? I have a funny feeling they actually make money.

Every single DVC member is getting their accommodations for far less than even your discounted rack rates. Count on it. But if you're willing to pay more for the flexibility inherent to booking 2-3 weeks per year through CRO, more power to you.

If we were staying in the exact same room, I'd agree with you. But as someone else said, it's like the offsite versus onsite arguement. There are options for us onsite that are comparable. It may not be comparable for you, but for us, and many others, it is. That seems to be the biggest part you won't recognize.

 

[googilycub]

dupe post

 

[googilycub]

Fabricated...incorrect...wrong...pick your adjective.

Some things are better left alone. Anyone who knows anything about DVC can see that Kidd is using flawed numbers in his/her example. Using BLT price per point for the purchase price but WL's price per point for dues is a neat trick, I am sure Kidd knows that one of the reasons why BLT has a high price per point is its low dues price, but that does not matter when fabricating an argument. Showing the financing at 100% is also a nice little trick. When I purchased DVC they required a 10% down payment, which if given in Kidd's example, would lower the overall payment by almost 8,000 dollars and knock off about $50 a month on the payment. Ignoring any incentives that Disney is giving is also a flaw in Kidds argument. When I bought Disney matched the first 10% of my downpayment, which if applied to Kidd's example would drop another 70 dollars or so a month, and the overall by another $8,000. Ignoring price increases in hotel room rates when figuring out how long the price break even point is almost as illogical. No one can perdict what hotel prices will be in 10 years, but to count on them not increasing is just plain mad. There are some other mistakes in Kidd's little example but I think that I made my point. I would never tell someone they should buy DVC because it works for me, I might say they should look into it but that is about it. However it does bug me when people try to show what a bad deal DVC is buy using the wrong numbers, you don't like it great that is your right. However at least use the proper figures when trying to justify yourself, or just leave it alone. I sometimes think jeolousy is the motive for trying to mislead people with improper numbers, but I do not know.


BTW, the DVC AKL concierge rooms do get daily mousekeeping service, along with the nightly turndown treatment....

 

[Phonedave]

End point - DVC is a good value for some people; others see it as something not of value for them. It's like staying on property vs. staying off property. Everyone has valid reasons for their choice. It's good to read threads like this because it causes you to reflect on different perspectives.

Exactly.

I have said it before, and will repeat it. It is the same as the dining plans. If the plans or DVC fit your current use patterns and needs, then they will be beneficial. If you are changing your usage patterns to fit the plan or DVC, then it is not necessarly a savings.

If I want to buy a car for $18,000 with cloth seats and standard shift, and the salesperson offers me a package where I can get the base model for $17,000 but I have to include $2,000 worth of leather seats and automatic transmission, then that is NOT a savings. However, if I was planning on getting leather and automatic in the first place, then that plan would be good for me.

As things work out, DVC is a great deal for me, and the dinings plans are not.


-dave

 

[TP2000]

On paper, I'm probably a DVC recruiters dream customer. I was certainly fawned over when I went on the tour and got the sales pitch last year at the Grand Californian DVC open house. I'm comfortably upper-middle class, a big Disney fan, a Disneyland AP holder, and someone who does a lot of spendy traveling and often stays in Disney hotels.

But I just didn't like the DVC vibe or scene. I looked at the Marriott Vacation Club in Newport Beach several years ago, and came to the same conclusion. The whole timeshare thing just seems like a pyramid scheme to me, the list of minor negatives outweigh the potential long-term financial positives, and I go home and stare at the point tables and brochures and just sort of get creeped out.

DVC is just not for me. I like staying in hip boutique hotels in funky neighborhoods sometimes, and DVC just seems so overly slick and super-corporate that it's a real turn off.

I'll still spend some of my vacations on Disney property, but I will retain my freedom to choose where I stay and how I stay there. Thanks, but no thanks DVC.

And for many of the same reasons I have not, nor will I likely ever, use the Adventures by Disney tour service. A great concierge at any good 4 or 5 star hotel can achieve the same perks that AbD "guides" can, often for less money, without the corny group tour vibe and super-perky tour guide nipping at your feet every morning.

 

[captainkidd]

Fabricated...incorrect...wrong...pick your adjective.

Some things are better left alone. Anyone who knows anything about DVC can see that Kidd is using flawed numbers in his/her example. Using BLT price per point for the purchase price but WL's price per point for dues is a neat trick, I am sure Kidd knows that one of the reasons why BLT has a high price per point is its low dues price, but that does not matter when fabricating an argument. Showing the financing at 100% is also a nice little trick. When I purchased DVC they required a 10% down payment, which if given in Kidd's example, would lower the overall payment by almost 8,000 dollars and knock off about $50 a month on the payment. Ignoring any incentives that Disney is giving is also a flaw in Kidds argument. When I bought Disney matched the first 10% of my downpayment, which if applied to Kidd's example would drop another 70 dollars or so a month, and the overall by another $8,000. Ignoring price increases in hotel room rates when figuring out how long the price break even point is almost as illogical. No one can perdict what hotel prices will be in 10 years, but to count on them not increasing is just plain mad. There are some other mistakes in Kidd's little example but I think that I made my point. I would never tell someone they should buy DVC because it works for me, I might say they should look into it but that is about it. However it does bug me when people try to show what a bad deal DVC is buy using the wrong numbers, you don't like it great that is your right. However at least use the proper figures when trying to justify yourself, or just leave it alone. I sometimes think jeolousy is the motive for trying to mislead people with improper numbers, but I do not know.


BTW, the DVC AKL concierge rooms do get daily mousekeeping service, along with the nightly turndown treatment....

I'll admit - My numbers ARE indeed incorrect, as I was not taking into account the down payment. I also should have done more homework, as I thought all dues, regardless of which property you own, were the same. I wasn't doing it intentionally to try and make DVC look bad. I was just lacking correct information. Of course I want DVC to work for us. I'm shelling out close to $7,000 to stay at the Polynesian next July. Seems stupid when I could put a HUGE down payment on DVC. But again, it doesn't change some of the reasons why it hasn't worked for us yet. We lke to vacation for 2 weeks, and we'd need a lot of points (374 at least). We have to vacation at a specific time in the summer. I know if we were to continue the way we are going, DVC would probably pay for itself in about 10-12 years. However, I just don't know what our exact plans as they relate to Disney may be. When our oldest stops going, we may choose to go back to the Values. We may not go for a few years. There's just too much I'm not sure about right now. So yes, after reading this thread, I confess, my numbers were flawed.

For the record, jealous? Um, no. If I wanted to be a member of DVC, I would be. It's as simple as that.

 

[wdwjmp239]

Why haven't I joined DVC?

It's too expensive! The upfront cost is rediculous! Sure, the sales people I've talked to said it's cheaper than booking individual nights at the hotels for everytime me and my wife go to Disney, but quite honestly? I can stay at a nice 4 star hotel off-site close to Disney (15-20 mins) and still get away cheaper than what Disney wants me to shell out for the upfront cost.

While there are bonuses to joining DVC, I can't justify the cost.

 

[tjkraz]

I would never tell someone they should buy DVC because it works for me, I might say they should look into it but that is about it. However it does bug me when people try to show what a bad deal DVC is buy using the wrong numbers, you don't like it great that is your right. However at least use the proper figures when trying to justify yourself, or just leave it alone.

Well said. That was my point all along.

I'm shelling out close to $7,000 to stay at the Polynesian next July. Seems stupid when I could put a HUGE down payment on DVC. But again, it doesn't change some of the reasons why it hasn't worked for us yet. We lke to vacation for 2 weeks, and we'd need a lot of points (374 at least). We have to vacation at a specific time in the summer. I know if we were to continue the way we are going, DVC would probably pay for itself in about 10-12 years. However, I just don't know what our exact plans as they relate to Disney may be. When our oldest stops going, we may choose to go back to the Values. We may not go for a few years. There's just too much I'm not sure about right now.

Just one more comment and then I'll leave you alone. :goodnevil

One of the resale brokers has a 350 point Wilderness Lodge contract listed for $24,000. (Bear in mind that's just the asking price--a prospective buyer is certainly able to offer less.)

If you financed the entire thing for 10 years, you're probably paying $330 per month plus another $150 in dues. Yeah, it's a big chunk of change. But over 12 months, it's less than the $7000 you apparently have committed to a single Poly stay.

Or put that $7k toward the DVC to finance less. Payments drop to around $200 plus $150 in dues per month.

And when Year 11 finally rolls around, all you're paying is the $150/mo in dues. (Yeah, it will be more in 2020 but so will hotel rates--it's simpler to just discuss everything in 2010 dollars.) I hope you can see the benefit in getting that 700 sq ft One Bedroom villa for 10 nights at $1700 per year rather than $7k for 10 nights. Or, if your group gets smaller, use the points for Studio stays and they go even further. 350 points will get you more than 3 weeks in a Studio--even longer if you then have the flexibility to travel during cheaper seasons.

I understand the reservations about it being a big financial commitment. But one of the beauties of DVC is that it's an asset which has a tangible resale value. We have a pretty decent nest egg set aside for emergencies but I've already decided that our DVC contracts will go right on the resale market if we get into a pinch. Priced properly, I could have offers tomorrow on my contracts and net about $18k-20k in proceeds.

I do realize that you have other issues with the villas. If you buy into VWL, availability is a non-issue. Typically problems occur when people try to book on short notice or book popular periods outside of their Home resort. Sounds like you know exactly when you will be visiting (summer) and can easily book 11 months in advance with VWL points.

If the setup of the villa is a deal-breaker, so be it. Personally we love having the washer/dryer in the room (less packing), the privacy of a dedicated bedroom and the full kitchen (even if it's only used for boxes of cereal and dinner leftovers.) But I think it would be time well spent to really re-visit the finances in your case. If it were me, I'd at least consider making a low-ball offer on that VWL resale and see what happens. They are asking $69 per point. Offer them $60. Could be desperate. 350 DVC points for $21,000 is a heck of a deal, IMO.

That's my $.02....

 

[DVCOwner]

I can stay at a nice 4 star hotel off-site close to Disney (15-20 mins) and still get away cheaper than what Disney wants me to shell out for the upfront cost.

Off site!!! I had to stay off site once in my 25 years of going to WDW and I will never do that again. I want to stay with in the Magic. But if you want to stay off site; than DVC is not for you.

 

[Phonedave]

It's too expensive! The upfront cost is rediculous! Sure, the sales people I've talked to said it's cheaper than booking individual nights at the hotels for everytime me and my wife go to Disney, but quite honestly? I can stay at a nice 4 star hotel off-site close to Disney (15-20 mins) and still get away cheaper than what Disney wants me to shell out for the upfront cost.

While there are bonuses to joining DVC, I can't justify the cost.

That is a spurious argument.

Sure you can stay offsite for cheaper. You could also live in your car for a lot less. As I keep saying, you have to compare DVC to a comparable cash room. If you would not normaly stay in a DVC type room, then it is not even worth looking at.

The upfront cost does put a lot of people off, as it is a chunk of change. For people living paycheck to paycheck, adding $16,000 + of debit to their balance is NOT a good idea. But in the grand scheme of how much somone spends at WDW, it is peanuts.

-dave

 

[DVCOwner]

Let me add that I would stay at a WDW Value resort even if it cost me more than a four star hotel off park. But that is just me.

 

[wdwjmp239]

Expensive Lesson Learned

That is a spurious argument.

Sure you can stay offsite for cheaper. You could also live in your car for a lot less. As I keep saying, you have to compare DVC to a comparable cash room. If you would not normaly stay in a DVC type room, then it is not even worth looking at.

The upfront cost does put a lot of people off, as it is a chunk of change. For people living paycheck to paycheck, adding $16,000 + of debit to their balance is NOT a good idea. But in the grand scheme of how much somone spends at WDW, it is peanuts.

-dave

While we did stay off-site for cheaper this past weekend, we did get banged with some hidden fees which I didn't particularly care for:

Renaissance Resort @ Seaworld (Pricelined: $70/night) - Nice hotel. But, the $15/per guest parking rate took me by surprise at check-in ($70/night * 2 nights = $140 + $15 = $155)

Rosen Shingle Creek Resort (Pricelined: $75/night) - Not a bad place. Though, this was too far off the beaten path. I might as well have gone to Universal Studios. Parking $20/per guest ($75 + $20 = $95)

Total in hotel (and parking fees): $250

Priceline is good if you're looking to get a pretty decent deal on hotels, but watch for those hidden fees. For the money we spent this weekend in hotel and parking fees: $250 could've been a couple of nights at a Value Resort.

There was a lesson learned here and that is: NEVER PRICELINE A HOTEL IF YOU'RE GOING TO DISNEY. If you're going to a convention or not doing the Disney thing at all...Priceline is your friend.

 

[wdwjmp239]

Let me add that I would stay at a WDW Value resort even if it cost me more than a four star hotel off park. But that is just me.

As it stands now, DVC is too expensive for us. Maybe next year when we're in a better financial position we can do it.

 

[Frau Farbissina]

I really want to own DVC at some point, but it's very expensive and we have three small kids whose college funds I want to max out first. However, I'm not that responsible--I want DVC bad and would if it were more practical for us right now! What's also stopping me is that I have a very good friend who has a lot of points she can't use due to her work and family situation, so she "rents" them to us whenever we need them for only a few dollars a point, so we're able to go for a week for about what it would cost us in annual dues. She's planning on selling in the next few years and hopefully we'll buy then because DVC has completely spoiled me.

 

[Frau Farbissina]

Let me add that I would stay at a WDW Value resort even if it cost me more than a four star hotel off park. But that is just me.

I don't know if I'd go that far (because I really want to stay at the Waldorf Astoria) but I'm pretty close. I can't stand staying off site.