When will SSE be finished?

[plpeters70]

Of course, that is why many people stopped coming to Epcot. While at WDW, they wanted something that had the feel of Disney.

Well, that's somewhat a matter of opinion, of which we have no real proof. But from my perspective, people stopped coming to EPCOT because Disney stopped investing in the place for quite a while. After Wonders was added, Disney really didn't do much of anything with EPCOT until they closed World of Motion for Test Track. They had soured on the fact that a park about "The Future" needed constant investment to keep it fresh and interesting. That just didn't happen, and Future World became a little stale. That's why "I" think attendance at EPCOT dropped.

I know one thing people complain about is the video screens...but "back in the day" you could have said the same about animatronics. I mean seriously, you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting one of those things.

True, but you have to admit there's quite a bit of difference between video screens and audio-animatronics. I have multiple video screens in my own home, but I certainly don't have any Animatronic figures - and THAT makes all the difference. Yes, Disney needed to diversify their attractions some, but they seem to just be doing the same thing again - but this time with cheapo video screens instead of ultra-expensive animatronics.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

Timmay makes a good point about video screens vs AA's.

One big problem with EPCOT Center was that future world was almost entirely AA rides. World of Motion, which had very little to do with the future of transporation, was essentially a comical SSE.

Future World now offers a variety....but there are still issues that need to be addressed.

While test track is fun and exciting and the post show still offers looks at today and tomorrows transporation...the ride itself will become outdated soon...the ride itself isn't really about the future....it is fun....but it leaves an entire second floor where world of motion used to be....gutted...empty gone.....show space that could have been used...or could be used by some new ride whether it be thrill or chill in the future.

Mission: Space is fun. I can't ride it because the intense version makes me sick and the less intense version makes me jittery. It does take place in the future, but is it a trainign center, we going to mars, what?

Let alone the post show while great and interactive....show wise...you have mechanical stuff hanging from the ceiling, same thing in the queue....is the "industrial look" supposed to be chiq or cheap?

Wonders of Life.....it wasn't original....it was a mess of numerous concepts that were thrown into one pavilion...its gone....and hopefully something can replace it entirely. Many have expressed interest in a weather pavilion something that could be a multiattraction pavilion and offer a thrill and chill ride. Chill rides are sitdown rides. :lookaroun

Universe of Energy...here is where Epcot could be relevant about future world. Yes some would find it boring. There are those that find the current UoE to be boring enough as it is.

But why can't one ride in Epcot be pretty serious. Here we are facing an energy crisis around the world and certainly in America....1996 is long gone...Bill Nye is hardly known by kids today...Ellen is wearing outdated clothes and talking on a mobile phone....it's time to update that ride...no not bone dry science class like the original ride...but something dramatic and informative.The diroama needs the glory of special effects it has lost since 1996.

SSE is *mostly good* in my opion of course But the cut and paste your face fad will die off quickly so who knows where that is going. The post show is great. Informative and fun and inspiring to see new things and ideas.

Nemo....it's epcot's fantasyland aquarium.

Soarin' is a great show that replaced two attractions that had nothing to do with the future....remember they were about nutrition. Soarin's film should change though to celebrate the land across the world though.

Living with the Land is still relevant. I think circle of life could use a new film and a characterless overhaul.

Imagination needs some new imagination. I only went back to that pavilion on my last trip in January to see HISTA....which I hadn't seen since 1996...and it is tired and dated. Imagine a whole new Imagination pavilion and one where figment and dreamfinder not only star in the ride but the 3d movie and take us on a 3d look into the imagination.

The upstairs imageworks could keep timeless classics like the pin counter thingy, and the rainbow tunnel.No I don't want old 80s CAD drawing games, etc but new 21st century games that could co-exist with some classics in a new imageworks.

Innoventions...I'm on the fence with that. As for future world cosmetics....well we all now how I feel about that. :lol: For a company that says Epcot is not boring....its quite ironic that one enters the park in a sterile cement and granite desert. With the exception of flower and garden during beach fest 08.

World Showcase still retains the EPCOT Center message...but martin short in o' canada...please....that show will be replaced sooner than old one did.

Impressions of France is someone dated but very elegant.

American Adventure is great, though the girl who was watching the show in front of me and text messaging her friend and having her ipod blasting miley cyrus music in her ears could have cared less.

China's film is good...and norway's attraction is good as well.

Donald duck and friends in mexico.....dunno how that represents the country.

World Showcase also needs more rides and more countries. There's no reason why a few thrill rides could pop up in the showcase horizon. A canada river rapids or a mt. figi.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

If you want to make science fun just blow Pooh up

Thing is its a different age now, people arent as easily impressed or entertained for that matter and some positively dont want anything that could be deemed as educational. a tough act if you are an Imagineer.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

I think average joes have a problem just like we do (in some way) as to what is Epcot?

Really what is it. Epcot means nothing. EPCOT does and doesn't even have to be a city. EPCOT Center was a park that noy only was near the center of WDW but at the center of a technological and cultural focus for the disney company.

Am I going to learn something at Epcot, are there any rides there, what is it? That's the problem people have before they even go there. They know what the MK is, but what is Epcot. How does Disney market it Can they show that EPCOT 2.0 is a permanent world's fair with a disney twist of showmanship and creativity and offers thrill rides, sit down rides, shows, and other things for everyone....or is Epcot fantasyland south and a touch of sunset boulevard.

The Disney company has...since the 90s branded themselves into a very closed company in the sense that they rely so heavily on their old movies and animated characters and current pixar ones...that the only chance to open up new doors is in fact ones that are temporary with current fads such as highschool musical and american idol.

The investment in showing that the Disney company is one that has not only provided good entertainment, but has done amazing things for organazinations, children with disabilities, or families in need, but is also a company at the forefront in exploring new and creative ideas for its theme parks.

Very little has been done it terms of that. Though soarin', mission:space and the creation of turtle talk where amazing, they have been overshadowed by the numerous character or fad overlays that will become outdated and need to be replaced faster than timeless or classic rides that only need upgrading not updating.

No wonder we get articles from bloggers or reporters online who say why they hate disney, if anything too many characters and too much magic makes them sick to their stomach. ChrisinFL made a good point that the parks are almost become all types of Magic Kingdoms...with the exception of the AK I might add.

Is WDW the vacation kingdom, a place to relax and enjoy and offer something for everyone or is WDW the place where dreams come true and every 13 and 4 year old will reign over the parents and young adults?

 

[Timmay]

The parks might have a different feel about them, BUT:

We have Nemo both at Epcot and AK

We have a Lion King show at both Epcot and AK

We have princesses at Norway and MK

It's happening slowly, but it IS becoming less unique and more like a clone of the other Disney parks because they can't decide what to do with it.

No, it is a case of Disney providing what they feel the majority of guests want.

True, but you have to admit there's quite a bit of difference between video screens and audio-animatronics. I have multiple video screens in my own home, but I certainly don't have any Animatronic figures - and THAT makes all the difference.

Actually, I have six animatronic figures in my house...robots, spiders, a T-rex and others. These, however, I can actually control. Are they on the scale of what Disney has? No...but they are a lot more fun, because they are mine (well, my kids really) and I can have them do what I want them to.

There is a whole new generation behind us (in my case, several probably), and things aren't what they used to be. Disney is changing because the world is changing. You may not like it, but it's happening. Kids today think, act and react different then we do. They are amused and entertained differently than me or you. You and I see things differently also...everyone does. I just happen to think Disney is on the right track...others don't. That's just the way it is.

 

[ChrisFL]

No, it is a case of Disney providing what they feel the majority of guests want.

No, it's Disney doing what merchandising wants...sell as much "synergy" products as possible by making everything about pirates/princesses/pixar

 

[fyn]

No, it is a case of Disney providing what they feel the majority of guests want.

Disney should be designing and implementing attractions that guests don't even know they want. I'm not saying that's easy, but we're talking about Disney, one of the world's leading innovators in the entertainment industry.

With regard to Epcot, Disney had a choice. If we accept that attendance was down and the park wasn't meeting their goals, there were two high level design choices to be made. 1) Stick with the original Future World theme and create more compelling guest experiences, or 2) Incorporate successful elements from other properties. A great example of this is the lack of merchandise sales in Epcot. I'm nearly 100% certain that the reason Nemo swum his way into The Seas was because Nemo merchandise sells well elsewhere on property. I'm fine with the company capitalizing on a successful IP, but I don't like that it comes at the expense of Future World's theme and individuality. Figment is a great example of an underutilized IP that is unique to Epcot, is integral to its theme, and originated there. Why not *create* more compelling IP in Epcot, rather than truck it in?

 

[plpeters70]

Living with the Land is still relevant. I think circle of life could use a new film and a characterless overhaul.

I was thinking about Living with the Land the other day, and I think the only thing that ride needs is a new ending. Scratch that, it also needs the "Listen to the Land" song back. I'd like to see them add the song at the beginning of the attraction again, and then have musical versions throughout the rest of the ride (except in the greenhouse section). Then, I would like to see them spice up the very end of the ride. This would actually be a great place for the use of screens and video - have the song playing and surround us with scenes of people living in harmony with The Land, sort of a futuristic montage of how life could be if we take care of the world and use sustainable food-production methods.

The ending as it is right now is just sad.

World Showcase also needs more rides and more countries. There's no reason why a few thrill rides could pop up in the showcase horizon. A canada river rapids or a mt. figi.

Couldn't agree with you more - I have never understood why they didn't add a mountain-themed attraction to the World Showcase. I think one would look awesome against the skyline and really complete the look.

 

[plpeters70]

There is a whole new generation behind us (in my case, several probably), and things aren't what they used to be. Disney is changing because the world is changing. You may not like it, but it's happening.[/QUOTE]

I'm really not sure where you got that I am somehow against change. In fact, I cited that one of the problems with EPCOT after Wonders of Life opened was that Disney DIDN'T change it for too long. The very concept of Future World requires that it change all the time.

No, I am in no way against change -- but I am against change that is only motivated by selling more character crap. That is not what EPCOT Center is supposed to be about - and I don't think Disney should take it down that path - no matter how many Nemo stuffed toys they can sell. They have plenty of other parks for that.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

Why not create more unique and interesting IP for Epcot? Because that would be too hard for current merchandise and WDI to handle. They'd probably ________ their pants if they were not given an alternative that would allow them to just go back to using old comps and designs for existing characters and movie sets and then overlay that on a ride. But you never know, we could get lucky and have a whole new and unique disney ride like Expedition Everest, but we may have to de deal with a few disney character overlays ala monsters and stitch before we get an actual unique ride. :wave:

It's like 3 characters overlays for every 1 unique ride these days. :snore:

 

[plpeters70]

Why not *create* more compelling IP in Epcot, rather than truck it in?

Exactly! When you think about how successful park-unique characters like Figment are, you would think they would want to add even more! They could have easily come-up with a unique fish character to "sell" the idea of The Living Seas, and expanded the Disney-brand.

But instead, they take the easy way out and just use properties that people already know about. Sure, it's easier to market, but it does absolutely nothing to grow the EPCOT brand.

 

[fyn]

Why not create more unique and interesting IP for Epcot? Because that would be too hard for current merchandise and WDI to handle. They'd probably ________ their pants if they were not given an alternative that would allow them to just go back to using old comps and designs for existing characters and movie sets and then overlay that on a ride. But you never know, we could get lucky and have a whole new and unique disney ride like Expedition Everest, but we may have to de deal with a few disney character overlays ala monsters and stitch before we get an actual unique ride. :wave:

It's like 3 characters overlays for every 1 unique ride these days. :snore:

I was about to reply to the "They can't handle it" with "That's the most BS answer ever." but then I caught your sarcasm. :ROFLOL:

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

He/She/It/Them means that Disney is changing its attractions because audiences are changing, times are changing, EVERYTHING is changing.

Therefore they can't allow it's a small world to stay the way it has been at disneyland for many years because too many people just don't know what its about and can't relate to it unless they see aladdin, stitch, and cindy.

People don't want to sit and watch birds sing and flowers do dah ting, because they rather rock the coop with characters from two movies from the 90s. (I think they should add a feature where the birds ________ on you if you get up and leave)...like a mixture of water and fluff

People don't care about papyrus scrolls when they can just thank the pheonies for coming up with the common alphabet.

People want to be thrilled, buy awesome merchandise, and go home.

They don't care if there's a cinderella meet n greet in tomorrowland or what time the 3:00 parade is.

In order for Disney to make money, they must make rides and shows for these people who are the majority of the guests that go there and sadly...for the sake of form, content, purpose, and creativity.....these are the majority guests that think cinderella is sleeping beauty, that epcot is not part of disney, that spiderman is somewhere in tomorrowland, that sea world is part of universal, and so on and so on. Sure people go there on vacations, just as I have done there in years past, but when one complains that rides are being dummed down...look at the guests who go there...most of them are clueless and just plain don't care what something looks like or if a tulp if 4 shades away from pink. If the guests don't care...disney doesn't care...disney can then do the easy thing and just use the same ideas and put them on slightly different attractions at different parks because all they need is the money from a family or person, regardless if they care about the sculptures or the tree of life or puking their brains out on mission:space

 

[wannab@dis]

Exactly! When you think about how successful park-unique characters like Figment are, you would think they would want to add even more! They could have easily come-up with a unique fish character to "sell" the idea of The Living Seas, and expanded the Disney-brand.

But instead, they take the easy way out and just use properties that people already know about. Sure, it's easier to market, but it does absolutely nothing to grow the EPCOT brand.

No kidding! The financial successes of Figment is crazy. I've never seen so many items for one character at Walmart... oh, wait, maybe Target... no, not there either. Must have been somewhere else. Actually, you WON'T see him anywhere outside of the park.



It's genuinely entertaining watching some posters here step all over themselves explaining and rationalizing why the know more than the Executives.

Just for the record... EPCOT Center means nothing, EPCOT means nothing and Epcot means nothing... they were nothing more than names of a park... a place of entertainment built solely to make money for a business. The transformation from EPCOT Center to Epcot was done to trend the park with the majority of guests' wants. I know it's philosophically enticing to try to have some deep meaning for a theme park, but it's a facade, a show, designed purely to make a buck. Please don't be upset... everyone has something they want to believe is real. But it's sometimes more advantageous to actually understand there is something behind the curtain... the majority of guests walking through the gate know that and accept it as entertainment.

The bottom line is simple... we as fans of the product will see a much better show when the majority of consumers enjoy the show. Epic length tracked dark rides with AAs was intriguing at first, but quickly became stagnant and boring. Thankfully, Disney made the business decisions to bring real entertainment to the park. As the park continues to evolve, and prosper, we will see new additions and changes.

Those new additions and changes are what brings most people back to the parks time after time. Without it, many consumers will go looking for something else for their entertainment dollar. That would be a disaster for the business and, in turn, a disaster for us, the fans.

I'll gladly give up a favorite attraction that is no longer attracting the guests... it's simply because I understand the continual updates and additions to the parks is what keeps them profitable, and in turn, growing.

 

[Timmay]

Exactly! When you think about how successful park-unique characters like Figment are, you would think they would want to add even more.

Now I know you are just having fun..before I just thought you were, but now I know

I will quote one of my favorite movies.

"You know what makes this bird go up? Funding! Funding makes this bird go up. No bucks...no Buck Rogers".

It is as simple as that...:brick:

 

[plpeters70]

No kidding! The financial successes of Figment is crazy. I've never seen so many items for one character at Walmart... oh, wait, maybe Target... no, not there either. Must have been somewhere else. Actually, you WON'T see him anywhere outside of the park.

I'm sorry, would you mind pointing out where I said that Figment was successful OUTSIDE of EPCOT? I seemed to have missed it - just like you've missed my point.

The point was that an original character like Figment grows the EPCOT-brand, and entices people to come to EPCOT, the only place in the Disney empire where you can visit the little purple fellow. And other theme-park only brands have been just as successful - see Pirates, Small World, Haunted Mansion, Everest, etc.

People buy Nemo crap already - Disney doesn't need to give them more of the same at the theme parks. Instead, they should be giving their guests something unique and original. But silly me - that only worked for the first 40 years of Disney's Theme Park history - how could it possibly be relevant to today's world.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Now I know you are just having fun..before I just thought you were, but now I know

I will quote one of my favorite movies.

"You know what makes this bird go up? Funding! Funding makes this bird go up. No bucks...no Buck Rogers".

It is as simple as that...:brick:

I thought it was airflow and power opposing forces of lift versus weight

 

[plpeters70]

Now I know you are just having fun..before I just thought you were, but now I know

I really don't see what the problem with understanding is here - Figment IS a successful character, whether you seem to understand that or not. Unfortunately, Disney destroyed the attraction that made him so, and had to rush him back in as a "quick-fix" when the attraction that replaced him ended up a flop.

 

[Timmay]

I really don't see what the problem with understanding is here - Figment IS a successful character, whether you seem to understand that or not. Unfortunately, Disney destroyed the attraction that made him so, and had to rush him back in as a "quick-fix" when the attraction that replaced him ended up a flop.

You will have to define what "successful" means to you, then. I have to know where you sit before I know where you stand.

 

[plpeters70]

The bottom line is simple... we as fans of the product will see a much better show when the majority of consumers enjoy the show. Epic length tracked dark rides with AAs was intriguing at first, but quickly became stagnant and boring. Thankfully, Disney made the business decisions to bring real entertainment to the park. As the park continues to evolve, and prosper, we will see new additions and changes.

I agree with you, but where did I ask for epic length dark rides? Just because I enjoyed the offerings of the original EPCOT park doesn't mean that I think that's all that should ever be there.

And for what it's worth, EPCOT Center was not designed soley with the intention to "just make money". If it had been, Disney would have just given us another Magic Kingdom - that would have been a guaranteed success. Just because you're a cynic and believe that everything is only about money doesn't actually make it so.