"What's Next?" presentation December 7th

[WED99]

The following coasters existed before RnRC that used linear induction or linear synchronous systems:
Tower of Terror II - Dreamworld (Australia)

Tower of Terror II is about 2 years old.... just pointing that out. You may be right about the others, as I said I'm not entirely sure.

No. The horizontal shaft proved incredibly problematic and was cut from all subsequent designs. Plus the arrangement of three shafts with 6 load areas increased hourly capacity.

Once again, I'm not certain but I have never seen WDW ToT over 15 minute wait, and never seen DCA ToT under 15 minutes. I assumed it was because of no forward movement but it may also be because of higher attendance (which I doubt).

I'm glad you corrected me because I did learn something, but tell me something. If you dislike disney enough to find all this research against them and say the following...

RnRC was hardly an original design. It was an off-the-shelf design from Vekoma that has since been used for two additional coasters. All Disney did was enclose it and tack on a theme.

Then why are you on a Disney Forum?

 

[WED99]

I think UNI has been doing great but im MY personal OPINION i believe Disney is still #1. Now i agree that Disney has really been slacking but i honestly think they are waking up. New Fantasyland doesnt have any amazing E tickets but its beautiful and to me the enviroment is part of the attraction. While not in WDW Carsland is stellar, Test Track is getting its re-imagining, We have yet to see what Avatar will bring, and then there's whatever will come to Hollywood Studios (hopefully Lucasland). Disney has been in a slump but atleast they are coming back and in my opinion Disney still is better then UNI.

I like how you think

 

[BigThunderMatt]

If you dislike disney enough to find all this research against them and say the following...


Then why are you on a Disney Forum?

I don't dislike Disney. What I dislike are apologists who cite attractions that were made 20, 30, or 40 years ago as the reason for their supposed "superiority" in the theme park industry, when in reality they haven't had a legitimate hit on the east coast in over a decade (I don't count Everest because a critical design flaw in its main selling point has prevented it from operating as intended nearly its entire lifespan of 6 years). Meanwhile Universal continues to beat them at their own game along with Oriental Land Company doing more as a licensee than the owner of the IP.

 

[WED99]

I don't dislike Disney. What I dislike are apologists who cite attractions that were made 20, 30, or 40 years ago as the reason for their supposed "superiority" in the theme park industry, when in reality they haven't had a legitimate hit on the east coast in over a decade (I don't count Everest because a critical design flaw in its main selling point has prevented it from operating as intended nearly its entire lifespan of 6 years). Meanwhile Universal continues to beat them at their own game along with Oriental Land Company doing more as a licensee than the owner of the IP.

But that's just the things, the rides made decades ago are timeless and Uni can't compare. Everest is an amazing ride even without the yeti and definentely a hit. New Test Track looks spectacular and if the technology promised is true it will be a real jaw dropper! Avatar will be a return for the company for sure, it's their chance to show what they can do. They won't disappoint! I admit Disney took it easy for a few years but a storm is coming Big Thunder Matt. (Batman Reference )

 

[menamechris]

I don't dislike Disney. What I dislike are apologists who cite attractions that were made 20, 30, or 40 years ago as the reason for their supposed "superiority" in the theme park industry, when in reality they haven't had a legitimate hit on the east coast in over a decade (I don't count Everest because a critical design flaw in its main selling point has prevented it from operating as intended nearly its entire lifespan of 6 years). Meanwhile Universal continues to beat them at their own game along with Oriental Land Company doing more as a licensee than the owner of the IP.

This. A good majority of the individuals who gave Disney the title of "superiority" or "king" have long gone - or even died. Disney has rested on the creations of those creative geniuses for decades now. Thankfully they were decades ahead of their time - because that's how long Disney has been ridin' that wave...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, because it isn't the individual imagineers themselves who pioneer new technologies, it's all of them as a group. There has never been one amazing Disney project made by one person. Disney is so in demand that they are constantly pushing their imagineers to create new things years before they are possible! This is something Universal lacks. The KUKA arm has been around since 1973, Universal just put wheels on it. Not to say it wasn't a smart idea, it had not been used in a theme park before! It was the same case with Transformers and Spiderman. It was just a newer version of Disney's EMV vehicle. The simulator part would not even exist if Star Tours hadn't been created years ago!

Uni are good and getting better, but I'm sorry they will never pass Disney. Even if their parks started pulling more money, Disney will always been known as the king!

The Imagineers are not some isolated collective of geniuses that does everything for themselves. Disney buys ride systems from ride system manufacturers all of the time and even new ride systems often involve outside ride system manufacturers, Vekoma being Disney's favorite. Disney could have also bought KUKA's ride system, and attractions utilizing the technology were considered. Disney could also call up Oceaneering and do a ride with their ride system. Disney does not do everything in house, never have and are only doing less as time moves forward.

 

[WED99]

The Imagineers are not some isolated collective of geniuses that does everything for themselves. Disney buys ride systems from ride system manufacturers all of the time and even new ride systems often involve outside ride system manufacturers, Vekoma being Disney's favorite. Disney could have also bought KUKA's ride system, and attractions utilizing the technology were considered. Disney could also call up Oceaneering and do a ride with their ride system. Disney does not do everything in house, never have and are only doing less as time moves forward.

Ride systems are outsourced often (even though the best are) but a lot of effects and storytelling techniques are created by them. Six Flags outsource new systems but they don't even compare.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ride systems are outsourced often (even though the best are) but a lot of effects and storytelling techniques are created by them. Six Flags outsource new systems but they don't even compare.

Not sure what Six Flags has to do with this or what point you are trying to make. Universal hires a lot of the exact same people that have worked with Disney. With very few exceptions, the same pool of people moves from company to company doing work. And seeing as the atmosphere at Walt Disney Imagineering is still described as being quite toxic, I doubt there is much of a culture that gets more from the same people.

 

[WED99]

Not sure what Six Flags has to do with this or what point you are trying to make. Universal hires a lot of the exact same people that have worked with Disney. With very few exceptions, the same pool of people moves from company to company doing work. And seeing as the atmosphere at Walt Disney Imagineering is still described as being quite toxic, I doubt there is much of a culture that gets more from the same people.

Six Flags was used as an example. They use a lot of new ride systems but they don't compare to Disney. This is because the imagineers always introduce a new technology or use their existing technologies to tell stories better than anyone else! And it is not toxic, I refuse to believe that.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

And it is not toxic, I refuse to believe that.

Then you, sir, are living in a dream world. WDI has had a reputation of being incredibly cutthroat for a very long time.

 

[WED99]

Then you, sir, are living in a dream world. WDI has had a reputation of being incredibly cutthroat for a very long time.

What's wrong with living in a dream world? dreams are the happiest thing in the world, and a wise man taught me if you can dream it you can do it! That wise man then went on the create what we know today as Disneyland and the entire theme park industry!

How could you create such happy things in a toxic place? Most imagineers say they have the best job in the world, just the ones who get fired say it's toxic.

I'll tell you exactly what it's like in a few years when I'm running the place

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

But that's just the things, the rides made decades ago are timeless and Uni can't compare. Everest is an amazing ride even without the yeti and definentely a hit. New Test Track looks spectacular and if the technology promised is true it will be a real jaw dropper! Avatar will be a return for the company for sure, it's their chance to show what they can do. They won't disappoint! I admit Disney took it easy for a few years but a storm is coming Big Thunder Matt. (Batman Reference )

Until I see it I won't believe it. I want to be wrong too, I take no pleasure in seeing what WDW has been turned into. And what technology are you referring to for Test Track? It's reported to simply be a minor scenery change, same track layout but with some new Tron-like lighting. The concept art and reports don't show anything jaw dropping whatsoever. Avatar from the plans will have a boat ride and some sort of simulator that seems to be based on Soarin's tech.

I see current Disney leadership like this- a descendant who inherits his ancestor's name, business, and legacy. The ancestor built a great business empire that is widely held by public opinion as great. But the descendant is not his ancestor, the descendant chooses to neglect his ancestor's empire and legacy and just leech off of what he inherited and enjoy the rewards at the expense of it rotting away. I don't judge the current company and the descendant's performance based on things that were built long before his time. It's ridiculous to say that all aspects of the current Disney company is the best by default based solely on things built a long time ago. Hell, it's sort of like saying George Lucas is still the best film maker ever based solely on the first two Star Wars movies (ANH and ESB that is).

Disney's philosophy of "if you can dream it you can do it" has been warped into "if people let you do it, you can neglect it and not ever spend any money".

 

[ChrisFL]

Yes, because it isn't the individual imagineers themselves who pioneer new technologies, it's all of them as a group. There has never been one amazing Disney project made by one person. Disney is so in demand that they are constantly pushing their imagineers to create new things years before they are possible! This is something Universal lacks. The KUKA arm has been around since 1973, Universal just put wheels on it. Not to say it wasn't a smart idea, it had not been used in a theme park before! It was the same case with Transformers and Spiderman. It was just a newer version of Disney's EMV vehicle. The simulator part would not even exist if Star Tours hadn't been created years ago!

Uni are good and getting better, but I'm sorry they will never pass Disney. Even if their parks started pulling more money, Disney will always been known as the king!

You'd be surprised if you knew how Imagineering actually worked. Yes there's a small team of them who do create concepts, but they are also doing a LOT of outsourcing contract work to other companies, or hiring people for a project and letting them go. Oh, and Universal picked up several Imagineers from Disney back in the 90's...when IOA was being designed.

Universal continues to innovate, Disney continues to stagnate

 

[WED99]

Until I see it I won't believe it. I want to be wrong too, I take no pleasure in seeing what WDW has been turned into. And what technology are you referring to for Test Track? It's reported to simply be a minor scenery change, same track layout but with some new Tron-like lighting. The concept art and reports don't show anything jaw dropping whatsoever.

I saw that you will design your car before the ride and then the ride is testing of what you created. I had no idea how it will work but thats just what I heard.

 

[WED99]

Universal continues to innovate

Do they? I mean really, do they? They had 1 new land with 2 re-themed rides. Sure FJ was good and the KUKA arm is innovative, but thats all they've really done. The area is the highlight and sure is great, but just follows the guidelines created by Disney over 50 years ago. Spiderman and Transformers ride system was just Uni's version of the EMV system, an innovation designed by Disney.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't dislike Disney. What I dislike are apologists who cite attractions that were made 20, 30, or 40 years ago as the reason for their supposed "superiority" in the theme park industry, when in reality they haven't had a legitimate hit on the east coast in over a decade (I don't count Everest because a critical design flaw in its main selling point has prevented it from operating as intended nearly its entire lifespan of 6 years). Meanwhile Universal continues to beat them at their own game along with Oriental Land Company doing more as a licensee than the owner of the IP.

How many here have even been to DLR? How many have been to UNI (and compared it fairly to Disney, not looking for some MAGIC they believe exists at WDW)? How many have been (or will ever go) to TDR (or any international parks)?

WDW has to be the best for many because they either can't or won't -- because of finances or fear -- visit anywhere else to really compare.

WDW hasn't built a WOW/Raising the Bar attraction in an exisiting park since ToT ... that was 18 years ago. A lifetime for a child.

What makes anyone think that's changed? Or will change?

 

[WDW1974]

Not sure what Six Flags has to do with this or what point you are trying to make. Universal hires a lot of the exact same people that have worked with Disney. With very few exceptions, the same pool of people moves from company to company doing work. And seeing as the atmosphere at Walt Disney Imagineering is still described as being quite toxic, I doubt there is much of a culture that gets more from the same people.

Many ex-WDI are working for UNI now ... the head creative of WWoHP (Thierry Coup) was once at 1401.

I find it amusing that people here drool over Eddie Sotto who hasn't worked for WDI since last century and has been involved largely in non-park work since and still consider him an Imagineer, but don't give that same respect to folks who are still putting top product into parks all over the globe.

 

[GLaDOS]

Do they? I mean really, do they? They had 1 new land with 2 re-themed rides. Sure FJ was good and the KUKA arm is innovative, but thats all they've really done. The area is the highlight and sure is great, but just follows the guidelines created by Disney over 50 years ago. Spiderman and Transformers ride system was just Uni's version of the EMV system, an innovation designed by Disney.

You give Universal far too little credit with the Spider-man ride system. It's much more than just an EMV knockoff. Not to mention they revolutionized 3-D projection technology with synching it with movement for Spider-man making it realistic, a technique known as "squinching". Transformers also uses a revolutionary elevator system in the ride twice.

Hulk's launch system was so advanced and the first of its kind that it required it's own power system or else it risked blowing the local systems.

The Musion projection technology for Disaster and Forbidden Jounrey's queue was the first of it's kind.

T2: 3D's mix of live actors, 3-D, and animatronics isn't something you see at Disney.

Do I need to go on?

 

[WDW1974]

What's wrong with living in a dream world? dreams are the happiest thing in the world, and a wise man taught me if you can dream it you can do it! That wise man then went on the create what we know today as Disneyland and the entire theme park industry!

How could you create such happy things in a toxic place? Most imagineers say they have the best job in the world, just the ones who get fired say it's toxic.

I'll tell you exactly what it's like in a few years when I'm running the place

That's not reality, sorry. And I have friends who work there now and they say it's toxic as it has been for a very long time.

Can I ask you a question? (just did) How old are you and what do you want to do when you grow up (gonna assume you aren't 39 here)?

 

[WDW1974]

Disney's philosophy of "if you can dream it you can do it" has been warped into "if people let you do it, you can neglect it and not ever spend any money".

THIS. THIS. AND THIS!!!