What about Big Hero Six?

Lee

Adventurer
But what is wrong with having characters in such an exhibit? Where I disagree with you is the blanket rejection of them. Why can't a robotics attraction have Baymax involved if it enhances the experience?



I'm not arguing for Frozen in Norway -- it's the exact point of the "shoehorned" case you made. That shouldn't happen.

But just because Frozen doesn't belong in Norway doesn't mean that characters don't belong in Epcot. And I don't see any reason why it should matter if the characters are original to Epcot or established -- what matters is how the characters are used and how they fit.

We can agree to disagree, but I just hate when people talk in absolutes.
I'm sure part of my disapproval is my general dislike of animation and its intrusion into what was once a 'toon free zone at Epcot.

I figure if a great attraction can be made without them, that's the way to go at Epcot. And mostly Animal Kingdom, too.
 

RandomPrincess

Keep Moving Forward
I'm sure part of my disapproval is my general dislike of animation and its intrusion into what was once a 'toon free zone at Epcot.

I figure if a great attraction can be made without them, that's the way to go at Epcot. And mostly Animal Kingdom, too.

I find it very interesting you dislike animation but like Disney World which was built off of animation.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I find it very interesting you dislike animation but like Disney World which was built off of animation.
Walt Disney World was in no way built off animation. The core idea was urban planning. Even at Disneyland, where only about a quarter of opening day attractions were franchise based, additions had become almost exclusively original concepts by the mid-1960s.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I love animation, but i'm also very thankful WDW wasn't exclusively built off it. A little is fine in moderation to me (extreme moderation because you have to be very careful here), but too much isn't welcome (and WDW has passed that point of way too much).

Originally prior to the mid 90's the animation influences were actually pretty subdued in comparison to today. The only exception of a heavily cartoon influenced land at Magic Kingdom was Fantasyland and the Birthdayland/Starland/Toontown area. But even back then, Fantasyland wasn't exclusively toon inspired, 20k Leagues Under the Sea for example was a contrast to the rest of the land for being based on a serious live action move geared towards more adult audiences. EPCOT had barely any animation related stuff besides perhaps Imagination (which was still an original ride and not based on a movie or anything, it only took concepts from cartoon influences and even then wasn't exclusively a kids ride), most of the rest of the park was more realistic. MGM had a few stage shows based on cartoons and the Muppet area (which I guess counts), but Great Movie Ride was front and center and the Backlot Tour used to be a big deal. Tower of Terror and even Star Tours (along with the Indy stunt show) were non-animation additions. Even as late as 1998 Animal Kingdom kept the toons somewhat subdued compared to now, the big rides at the time were the safari, CTE and Kali. And 2006's Expedition Everest (which is effectively an Eisner project despite the timing) was not toon-ish at all.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
But what is wrong with having characters in such an exhibit? Where I disagree with you is the blanket rejection of them. Why can't a robotics attraction have Baymax involved if it enhances the experience?



I'm not arguing for Frozen in Norway -- it's the exact point of the "shoehorned" case you made. That shouldn't happen.

But just because Frozen doesn't belong in Norway doesn't mean that characters don't belong in Epcot. And I don't see any reason why it should matter if the characters are original to Epcot or established -- what matters is how the characters are used and how they fit.

We can agree to disagree, but I just hate when people talk in absolutes.
Using existing characters to tell a story that's outside of the stories they normally tell is lazy. The original Figment was created for the Imagination Pavilion and reflected that idea. The replacement Figment was shoehorned into a new concept for the pavilion, that's why it's not working. There have been 0 instances where people have unequivocally said that a forced character infusion has worked. This is also why most sequels don't work. In most cases we already have an established vision for the characters, and so much of building a strong movie is establishing character traits. When those traits are established it eliminates surprises.
 

DKampy

Well-Known Member
I love how the OP is painting Interstellar as a complete Disaster/flop in order to support the success of BH6...I have seen neither movie yet...although I am planning to watch interstellar this weekend. It does not look like most hate interstellar...a few are disappointed that it did not meet their expectation...but even those are saying it is a must see in theaters just for the visuals alone...and most are at the very least applauding Nolan for how ambitious the film is...saying most filmmakers would not have the guts attempt such a feature...comparing Interstellar to Transformers seems to be a joke...but I will find out for sure on Saturday.
 

elchippo

Well-Known Member
I've been saying for years there's a definite place in the Studios (or whatever we are on the verge of now calling it) for all of the contemporary, urban set films like BH6, WIR, and even TRON/T:L, where Pixar Place meets Streets of America-build more buildings or re-furb what's already there where the entrance to BLT was. Call it "Uptown" or something.

I also think the best place for BH6 in EPCOT is an Innoventions re-do.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
And....that would fit the theme and purpose of Future World how exactly?
Not at all? Not even a little?

I didn't think so.:rolleyes:

This. It needs to be printed out framed with a brass plaque underneath with the inscription "THIS!"...
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Oh, I have a far better argument.

The argument isn't can it fit. The argument is should it.
My stance is, and will remain, animated characters shouldn't be shoehorned into Epcot.

If the movie does well enough to merit an attraction, it's welcome to one. Somewhere other than Epcot.

Mater doesn't belong in Test Track. Planes doesn't belong in Soarin'. Monsters Inc. doesn't belong in Energy. And Living Seas was better before Nemo invaded it.

Well now you're making sense.

"And....that would fit the theme and purpose of Future World how exactly?
Not at all? Not even a little?

I didn't think so."


Honestly, you were technically originally asking how BH6 would fit the theme and purpose of Future World... Which can be advancement in technology. Perfectly fitting in Innoventions or in a newly themed pavilion.

You never mentioned your "I don't want cartoon characters in this theme park" argument. At least, not originally. You were originally arguing about how the movie fits in with the theme and purpose of Future World. Which many of us clearly explained. Which may be why you decided to make up this new argument you never originally started.

But if you had originally said that you don't want it in Epcot because you would rather have an original pavilion/attraction themed to no movie.. I would have perfectly respected your opinion.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Let's make a few things very clear, because the OP's original post contains a strong amount of misinformation, namely the idea that Big Hero 6 is annihilating Interstellar. I'll go point-by-point instead of writing a novel.

  • Interstellar is a 3 hour PG-13 film that has absolutely no appeal to anyone under 13, while Big Hero 6 a family-oriented film coming in at less that 2 hours.
  • Interstellar's only branding and franchise appeal is the director, Christopher Nolan. Big Hero 6 comes from a mostly unknown Marvel comic, but it's general branding and franchise appeal stems from Walt Disney Pictures
Here's where some of my observations veer into subjectivity, but I think they're valid given the current finances:
  • Big Hero 6 is a mostly safe, predictable family film that aims to appeal to a mass audience. It's entertaining, but its ambitions are not worthy of special note.
  • Interstellar is a generally unpredictable, very ambitious film that doesn't pander to pre-teens and the lowest common denominator. This is actually one of the things I most respect about Christopher Nolan - he manages to make big budget, high grossing films that challenge the audiences with big ideas and grand ambitions, their own faults and all.
  • Big Hero 6 will probably have a better shelf life after theatres due to sequel potential and the fact that the film experience will serve well as home entertainment.
  • Interstellar is one of the most prominent examples a theatre experience that we've seen since Avatar.

All this leading to the finances thus far:
  • Big Hero 6 has a budget of $165 million (minus advertising and marketing). It has grossed $110m domestically and $35 internationally, for a total of $145m thus far. That number will increase significantly as the film opens in theaters around the Pacific Rim. It should hold up well this holiday season considering the only two directly competing films will be Madagascar Penguins and Night at the Museum 3.
  • Interstellar has a budget of $165 million (minus advertising and marketing). It has grossed $97 million domestically and $225 internationally, for a worldwide total of $323 million thus far. That number will increase significantly as it opens overseas more, but it will face greater competition from more teenager and adult entertainment throughout the winter (Hobbit, Hunger Games, Horrible Bosses 2, The Interview, American Sniper, Into the Woods).
So, Big Hero 6 annihilating Interstellar? Hardly. Disney is riding a high of goodwill from Frozen last year, and even if Big Hero 6 was a bad film (which is very much is not), it would have done well at the box office. The ads made it clear as to the tone and appeal the filmmakers were aiming for; it's probably the least ambitious and safest of Disney's computer-animated productions since Tangled.

Again, it was good at what it was attempting to accomplishing, but it was generally predictable and unmemorable compared to other films this year.

Interstellar has its obvious faults (namely, Christopher Nolan's tendency to provide excessive exposition to big ideas), but it's a hugely ambitious film that, even if I hated, I couldn't help but respect the hell out of. It attempts to marry the big ideas of 2001: A Space Odyssey with the human emotion and passion of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. It was an exhilarating experience in theaters, especially in IMAX 70MM. It probably my favorite film of the year and easily the best theatre experience I've ever had. High exhilarating and very emotional around a new, enthralling story. You don't see films like this often, faults and all.

As for a BH6 ride, sure, it could be fun. Makes sense in Epcot (moreso than Frozen in Norway). I'd like to see WDW attempt to make E-ticker attractions based on original concepts at some point instead of using film licenses to theme everything they build.

Rant over.
 
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SirLink

Well-Known Member
Not "as yet." I won't be seeing it. No interest in it at all. Zero


Robotics and Health and Wellness are (and have been) indeed perfect fits for Future World.
Both have had a major presence there in the past.

My issue is that the themes are strong enough to not require a cartoon tie-in to be worthy of inclusion. No need to dumb it down by adding characters that just may happen to have some degree of connection.

Sing it sing it Mr Lee ...
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Well now you're making sense.

"And....that would fit the theme and purpose of Future World how exactly?
Not at all? Not even a little?

I didn't think so."


Honestly, you were technically originally asking how BH6 would fit the theme and purpose of Future World... Which can be advancement in technology. Perfectly fitting in Innoventions or in a newly themed pavilion.

You never mentioned your "I don't want cartoon characters in this theme park" argument. At least, not originally. You were originally arguing about how the movie fits in with the theme and purpose of Future World. Which many of us clearly explained. Which may be why you decided to make up this new argument you never originally started.

But if you had originally said that you don't want it in Epcot because you would rather have an original pavilion/attraction themed to no movie.. I would have perfectly respected your opinion.

Why do you think every attraction at WDW should be based off Toons?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Walt Disney World was in no way built off animation. The core idea was urban planning. Even at Disneyland, where only about a quarter of opening day attractions were franchise based, additions had become almost exclusively original concepts by the mid-1960s.
I think she means Disney as in the company. The root of the company.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Honestly, you were technically originally asking how BH6 would fit the theme and purpose of Future World... Which can be advancement in technology. Perfectly fitting in Innoventions or in a newly themed pavilion.
Ok, an advancement in technology display in Innoventions.

Such a display, properly conceived and designed, shouldn't require 'toons to get its message across. No need for them.

My post that you quote is in response to the apparent desire by yourself to get the Big Hero 6 into the park with no mention of a theme or how it would fit:
BH6 seems like it would fit well in EPCOT... I'd love to see some gigantic thrill-simulator-dark ride of BH6 take place in the Ellen pavilion! I mean... imagine AAAALLLL of that SPACE!! They'd have enough to build two identical tracks in the building.. ALSO using that very first pre-show room as a queue-line area.
No mention there of an advancement of technology theme. Just a desire to see those characters in a park at the expense of a current (though dated) energy pavillion.

In my opinion, that is backwards. Starting with characters and then designing the attraction around them just to get them into the park is wrong. At least in Epcot.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I find it very interesting you dislike animation but like Disney World which was built off of animation.
When EPCOT opened, WDW had toon IP-based experiences in Fantasyland.

Not in Adventureland. Not in Frontierland. Not in Liberty Square. Not in Tomorrowland. Not on Main Street. Not in the Contemporary, or the Polynesia, or the Golf Inn. Not in River Country. Not on Discovery Island. Not in the Village. Not in Future World. Not in World Showcase. Yet everything was Disney themed. The Magic of Walt Disney World was that unlike its inferior competitors it did not have to rely on slapping IPs on everything to give it character and identity. :geek:

(I'm sure somebody will find examples that I've overlooked. Let the exceptions prove the rule!)
 

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