West gate Development

Wilt Dasney

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
_Scar said:
Well, technically, the Swan and Dolphin isn't owned by Disney even though they get the same benefits as other resort stayers. Does that make them any less than the other hotels?
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It gets into some fine hair-splitting here, but I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the S&D are on Disney property, but aren't operated by Disney.

These west gate properties will be neither on Disney property (as Disney is selling the land outright), nor will they be operated by Disney.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Wilt Dasney said:
It gets into some fine hair-splitting here, but I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the S&D are on Disney property, but aren't operated by Disney.

These west gate properties will be neither on Disney property (as Disney is selling the land outright), nor will they be operated by Disney.
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Yes that is correct.
The Swan and Dolphin lease the land and are operated by Starwood. The agreement allows the names to have the name "Walt Disney World" in front of the hotel name and many of the resort benefits are extended to the hotels (Transportation, etc. )

The only difference between the new Flamingo Crossings hotels and a 192 hotel is that it will be on land "previously" owned by WDW. That in itself really doesn't mean anything but the advantage will be that Disney will likely do a fairly decent job at developing the property.
 
steampunkwillie

steampunkwillie

Member
Disney Managed Sales?

Even though Disney is "selling off" these properties, I think they still might have the right to oversee sales. Like if I buy a house in celebration and I want to sell it, Disney needs to approve the sale.

Does anyone understand any better how this works?
 
captainkidd

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
s8film40 said:
Generally when you have an excess of land and no foreseeable future use for it, yes it does make sense.
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That's a pretty depressing logic. So, they don't think any new theme parks could be built there? How about another water park? The 2 parks they have now aren't nearly enough for the summer months.

I've said it for a couple years now - Disney continues to sell land, and Universal continues to buy it. I give it 15 years, and Universal will become the #1 vacation spot in the world.
 
Gatorboy

Gatorboy

Well-Known Member
WDW has sold off or de-annexed original land on the outskirts of a it's huge property. Little Lake Bryan, Celebration, Crosroads (all three developed by Disney), and a small portian to the state for the 535 / I-4 interchange They got like 25 million for a few acres). All outside of the core property surrounded by I-4 / 535 / 192 / Western Beltway. The only exception is the Four Seasons property. The main property still has the borders to keep majority of outside properties hidden from all that is WDW. As for the Flamingo Crossings development, designing and developing the project is better than just selling off the property. The value hotel market WDW is speaking of not getting into is the Red Roof type extreme value motels. The WDW value hotels are closer to moderate off property. Many motel/hotel off property can be had at half what you pay for a stay at All Star or Pop Century. Don't worry about selling small parcels off, they still have way too much property to develope in our life times.
 
jmani56

jmani56

Member
Call it what you will, but all that land was purchased for a reason. Even though it's not a huge deal right now, one day Disney may regret selling away such huge parcels.

There are plenty of value resorts completely surrounding the property, there is really no urgent need of them. And if this area is already being compared to Crossroads, that is not a positive thing. Crossroads is a large strip mall with generic restaurants like Denny's. The purpose of buying all that land was to keep guests far away from things like this.
 
G

geubux

Member
captainkidd said:
That's a pretty depressing logic. So, they don't think any new theme parks could be built there? How about another water park? The 2 parks they have now aren't nearly enough for the summer months.

I've said it for a couple years now - Disney continues to sell land, and Universal continues to buy it. I give it 15 years, and Universal will become the #1 vacation spot in the world.
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I'll call you on that one. Universal has not added a thing in years, until Harry Potter, and I'm willing to bet they're going to have major maintenance issues with the Kuka system in a few years. People, such as you, have been saying since Universal was built that they will compete with Disney and it hasn't happened yet.

And if you want to talk thrill rides, well, Universal can't even compete with amusement parks such as Cedar point, King's Island and Kennywood.

No, in 15 years, WDW will still be the Number 1 vacation spot and Universal will still be offering they're 3/4 days for the price of one tickets. AND, Universal will be owned by a different company. Take THAT to the bank.:sohappy:
 
crashnuke

crashnuke

New Member
geubux said:
I'll call you on that one. Universal has not added a thing in years, until Harry Potter, and I'm willing to bet they're going to have major maintenance issues with the Kuka system in a few years. People, such as you, have been saying since Universal was built that they will compete with Disney and it hasn't happened yet.

And if you want to talk thrill rides, well, Universal can't even compete with amusement parks such as Cedar point, King's Island and Kennywood.

No, in 15 years, WDW will still be the Number 1 vacation spot and Universal will still be offering they're 3/4 days for the price of one tickets. AND, Universal will be owned by a different company. Take THAT to the bank.:sohappy:
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That company will be Disney.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
steampunkwillie said:
Even though Disney is "selling off" these properties, I think they still might have the right to oversee sales. Like if I buy a house in celebration and I want to sell it, Disney needs to approve the sale.

Does anyone understand any better how this works?
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Disney does not have any control over home sales in Celebration. In fact Disney has very little to do with Celebration at all, a while back they sold off the downtown area and no longer have control over that. There are a few pieces of land here and there that they haven't sold yet, but thats it. Even the land they still own in Celebration they are finding creative ways to get rid of.

captainkidd said:
That's a pretty depressing logic. So, they don't think any new theme parks could be built there? How about another water park? The 2 parks they have now aren't nearly enough for the summer months.
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Disney has plenty of room for new parks without the land they are selling. They can continue to build parks and sell land.

jmani56 said:
Call it what you will, but all that land was purchased for a reason.
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Yes it was but it wasn't purchased to build a theme park resort. If they were looking to build a theme park resort they wouldn't have bought nearly as much land. Sadly the reason for purchasing the land was abandoned the day Walt Disney died.
 
TheBeatles

TheBeatles

Well-Known Member
So will this add to the wonderful atmosphere of looking out over Disney property and seeing regular looking hotel buildings?

Go to the top of Typhoon Lagoon and look towards World Center Dr./535 then you'll know what I mean.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
TheBeatles said:
So will this add to the wonderful atmosphere of looking out over Disney property and seeing regular looking hotel buildings?

Go to the top of Typhoon Lagoon and look towards World Center Dr./535 then you'll know what I mean.
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Typhoon lagoon was built right off of I-4. The other parks have a little more of a buffer area.
 
captainkidd

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
geubux said:
I'll call you on that one. Universal has not added a thing in years, until Harry Potter, and I'm willing to bet they're going to have major maintenance issues with the Kuka system in a few years. People, such as you, have been saying since Universal was built that they will compete with Disney and it hasn't happened yet.

And if you want to talk thrill rides, well, Universal can't even compete with amusement parks such as Cedar point, King's Island and Kennywood.

No, in 15 years, WDW will still be the Number 1 vacation spot and Universal will still be offering they're 3/4 days for the price of one tickets. AND, Universal will be owned by a different company. Take THAT to the bank.:sohappy:
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I don't know. I'd like it if I was wrong, but from what I've read and heard, Universal isn't done - Not by a long shot. They've got plans to purchase more land - A LOT more land. They're already got 5 more hotels that have been in the works.

Universal isn't just about thrill rides. True, some of their rides are thrilling, but they have great themes to them. Don't count out Universal. I used to wear blinders to them, but they have done an AMAZING job with that resort.
 
epcot85

epcot85

Member
goingquackers said:
i don't get it. who owns this land? if its Disney, will it be part of WDW? whats the strategy behind this?
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IMO I think it is an effort to keep guest away from International drive, some guest probably drive back toward I-drive for cheaper hotels, groceries etc. But if a guest could go to Flamingo Crossings while staying away from the competition its a win win for Disney, notice that the area is far enough away from the resorts to keep resort guest on property and spending money in their hotel, but not too far away for the frugal tourist, closer than I-drive anyway...just my 2 cents.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Universal isn't done - Not by a long shot. They've got plans to purchase more land - A LOT more land. They're already got 5 more hotels that have been in the works.
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There a LOT of plans for the area in and around Universal. It will always be a complimentary resort for tourists - and I`m sure locals - along with WDW. And it deserves to be.
 
hack2112

hack2112

Active Member
geubux said:
I'll call you on that one. Universal has not added a thing in years, until Harry Potter, and I'm willing to bet they're going to have major maintenance issues with the Kuka system in a few years.
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Ummm... Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit just opened a few weeks ago. Before that, they rethemed Earthquake to Disaster!, and added some amazing technology to the attraction (holograms are fun). Before that, they changed BTTF to The Simpsons Ride, and before that, they put in the Suess Trolley Train Ride in Suess Landing.

Not to mention the fact that their Grinchmas celebration has evolved into an amazing event, and that every year they create a brand new Halloween Horror Nights experience with new mazes, scarezones, shows, and a new theme. So yes, Universal has added a lot of things in the past years, let alone in the past weeks.
 

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