West gate Development

[s8film40]

I'm sure there are a number of reasons Disney is selling off bits of land on the outskirts of the WDW property. However I wouldn't doubt that the amount of fees and taxes they have to pay the state of Florida for the unused land is probably a good enough reason in itself.

With the economy the way it is and the increase in property taxes all across Florida over the past few years, this isn't really surprising. Also I'm sure there are guidelines, maintenance, and annual testing/surveys for protected wetlands that are costing a pretty penny too.

Actually taxes aren't that much of an issue Disney has most of their unused area zoned as agriculture and pays very little taxes on it. As far as the protected wetlands go they don't own them anymore they sold them long ago.

 

[_Scar]

There's still a ton of room for like 5 more full size parks

 

[wdwmemories]

Even though Disney is "selling off" these properties, I think they still might have the right to oversee sales. Like if I buy a house in celebration and I want to sell it, Disney needs to approve the sale.

Does anyone understand any better how this works?

An FYI on Celebration 101:

I live in Celebration currently. Disney has no say of what I do with my single-family home. I own the home and the land on which it sits. I am free to sell it to whomever I want and for whatever amount I want.

However, all owners in Celebration must abide by regulations of CROA (Celebration Residential Owners Association, which is our home owner's association) and the CCDD (Celebration Community Development District, which is a local governmental agency sanctioned by Florida law).

CROA takes care of things like architectural reviews and standards (i.e. no purple houses), enforcing maintenance standards (i.e. you must cut your grass), as well as the maintenance of certain public resources, like parks owned by the city residents.

CCDD takes care of things like street sweeping, pest control, and other public services.

Both of these organizations were originally stacked with Disney employees to get things off the ground, but are now run by elected residents.

Disney still has a large presence in Celebration. The Celebration Company (part of Disney) develops land they still own in Celebration. The Lake Buena Vista Land Company, Disney Imagineering, and Disney IT have offices in town. The Disney Cruise Line and Disney Vacation Club are headquartered in Celebration and rent or own large office buildings.

But at this point Celebration as a town (or technically unincorporated area of Osceola County) is run by its residents.

Whew!

 

[DisneyRoxMySox]

There's still a ton of room for like 5 more full size parks

Personally, I'm not upset with the loss of land to build more parks. I'm upset that we are asking the 'outside world' that Walt hated at DL to come right to WDW.

 

[captainkidd]

I'm upset that we are asking the 'outside world' that Walt hated at DL to come right to WDW.

That's exactly the point. It's going to become another Disneyland in a matter of years.

 

[_Scar]

That's exactly the point. It's going to become another Disneyland in a matter of years.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

 

[DisneyRoxMySox]

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

I wouldn't consider it jumping to a conclusion. Just look at what is happening. Seems to me putting motels on what was once property owned by Disney is getting a little to close to the magic for comfort.

The plot of land is also doing a great job placing AK between a rock and a hard place. It's bad enough that I could see a 7-11 sign from my hotel room at AKL and that I drive past the 'outside world' and what not as I take a bus to AK.

Just some thoughts I had to get off my chest.

 

[s8film40]

Personally, I'm not upset with the loss of land to build more parks. I'm upset that we are asking the 'outside world' that Walt hated at DL to come right to WDW.

There is a big difference between Disneyland where the outside world is across the street and WDW where at its closest usually nearly a half a mile away. Walt Disney did not buy an insanely large amount of land in Florida to create a buffer for a theme park, he bought it as he said "to hold all the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine." Unfortunately all the ideas the current Disney company can possibly imagine do not require nearly as large a piece of property as they did in 1966. While it is sad to see the land go and know that what was intended to be built will never happen, it is also sad to see theme parks and hotels replicated over and over and as fun as they are they are just as much a slap in the face of Walt Disney's dream as selling off the land.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

While it is sad to see the land go and know that what was intended to be built will never happen, it is also sad to see theme parks and hotels replicated over and over and as fun as they are they are just as much a slap in the face of Walt Disney's dream as selling off the land.

Very well stated. Walt Disney didn't buy all that land to build theme parks. Invoking his wishes when it comes to selling off the outlying land doesn't make a lot of sense to me, considering the land they have developed doesn't fit those wishes.

 

[DisneyRoxMySox]

There is a big difference between Disneyland where the outside world is across the street and WDW where at its closest usually nearly a half a mile away. Walt Disney did not buy an insanely large amount of land in Florida to create a buffer for a theme park, he bought it as he said "to hold all the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine." Unfortunately all the ideas the current Disney company can possibly imagine do not require nearly as large a piece of property as they did in 1966. While it is sad to see the land go and know that what was intended to be built will never happen, it is also sad to see theme parks and hotels replicated over and over and as fun as they are they are just as much a slap in the face of Walt Disney's dream as selling off the land.

I do see your point and I agree with some of it. I do think that part of the reason was to create a buffer. Though, it may just be my interpretation of 'we are doing here what we didn't have the space for in DL' (very loose quote). I beleive that one of the things they could do in DL is create a world of total fantasy that is completely apart from the real world.

And by replication you mean, clones and what not? I agree with that to a point as well. It would be nice to see the parks remain unique..

 

[Main Street USA]

Personally, I'm not upset with the loss of land to build more parks. I'm upset that we are asking the 'outside world' that Walt hated at DL to come right to WDW.

Ths is in NO WAY what is happening with this development. In fact, it's the opposite. This is a way for Disney to CONTROL what gets built adjacent to the WDW land. Period.

 

[s8film40]

I do see your point and I agree with some of it. I do think that part of the reason was to create a buffer. Though, it may just be my interpretation of 'we are doing here what we didn't have the space for in DL' (very loose quote). I beleive that one of the things they could do in DL is create a world of total fantasy that is completely apart from the real world.

Yes you are right Walt Disney did want a buffer, in fact he specifically mentioned keeping the Reedy Creek and Bonnet Creek swamps for this reason. I don't think most of the land they are selling or have sold takes away from the buffer effect and actually usually Disney does a decent job with it and it creates a good transition to the real world. I hate to see Disney sell land also but have to remind myself that they just don't need it.

And by replication you mean, clones and what not? I agree with that to a point as well. It would be nice to see the parks remain unique..

Actually I meant replication within WDW as in EPCOT, Hollywood studios, Animal Kingdom, and about twenty hotels. The only reason Walt Disney even wanted to put one park in Disney World was to use it as a "weenie" to force people to travel though Disney World so they would see the amazing and truly unique things he had planned. Walt Disney didn't like repeating himself he didn't like sequels for this reason and I think in a perfect world he would not have wanted any theme parks in Disney World at all, but it was a necessity in getting the project going and generating interest. Don't get me wrong though I love the parks and WDW as it is now and if we can't have Walt Disney's Disney World then what we have is a good alternative.

 

[DisneyRoxMySox]

Ths is in NO WAY what is happening with this development. In fact, it's the opposite. This is a way for Disney to CONTROL what gets built adjacent to the WDW land. Period.

Yes, you are right! However the way I see it. Let's say Motel A, could have built a really unattractive building with a huge red sign and a Denny's adjacent to it, right outside the West Gate. If Disney had retained the land in question, it would have been a great buffer to the rest of the property.

Disney was in control of who they sold the land to, but do they have much say on what the desgins of the building are?

Actually I meant replication within WDW as in EPCOT, Hollywood studios, Animal Kingdom, and about twenty hotels. The only reason Walt Disney even wanted to put one park in Disney World was to use it as a "weenie" to force people to travel though Disney World so they would see the amazing and truly unique things he had planned. Walt Disney didn't like repeating himself he didn't like sequels for this reason and I think in a perfect world he would not have wanted any theme parks in Disney World at all, but it was a necessity in getting the project going and generating interest. Don't get me wrong though I love the parks and WDW as it is now and if we can't have Walt Disney's Disney World then what we have is a good alternative.

Intresting thoughts. That will always be something we will never know. I guess I'm in it for saving as much of his dream as possible.

In this sense I am purist. But that's it..

 

[Kamikaze]

That's a pretty depressing logic. So, they don't think any new theme parks could be built there? How about another water park? The 2 parks they have now aren't nearly enough for the summer months.

I've said it for a couple years now - Disney continues to sell land, and Universal continues to buy it. I give it 15 years, and Universal will become the #1 vacation spot in the world.

Universal doesn't have the land to do that.

And no, they won't be building a park outside the gates of WDW.

Also, we're only talking about 450 acres of 25000.

 

[trr1]

well Kamikaze
300 acres for Four Seasons Hotels and 450 for Flamingo crossing According to the Orlando Sentinel, Disney recently sold 53 acres on Sherberth Road, just south of Disney’s Animal Kingdom, to a real estate developer who will build hundreds of vacation homes and condo units. Another 47 acres on Reams Road, north of the Kingdom, were sold to a home builder, while 30 acres is also up for sale on U.S. Highway 192. I would like to know when will it stop?

here is a link to a map of land WDW had in 1979 compared to now
http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disney-world-resort/116185-blessing-land-1979-vs-2009-sat-pics.html

 

[CBOMB]

well Kamikaze
300 acres for Four Seasons Hotels and 450 for Flamingo crossing According to the Orlando Sentinel, Disney recently sold 53 acres on Sherberth Road, just south of Disney’s Animal Kingdom, to a real estate developer who will build hundreds of vacation homes and condo units. Another 47 acres on Reams Road, north of the Kingdom, were sold to a home builder, while 30 acres is also up for sale on U.S. Highway 192. I would like to know when will it stop?

Shortly after they build a Super WalMart on World Drive.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Selling land is just the latest demonstration that the "buffer" idea isn't as important to Disney as it was when the land was bought. Remember when Disney had its own radio station, so the buffer wasn't just physical but psychological as well? I think the idea as a whole has clearly declined in importance.

I'm not sure that's even such a bad thing. I know I'm entering dangerous waters here, but one of the most charming aspects of Disneyland to me is how completely shut off from the outside it feels despite its proximity to the real world. You walk down Harbor, turn left at the Dennys, and *bang*...it's a different world. You might as well have just stepped off the monorail in front of Magic Kingdom. The fact that the transition happens so abruptly, and still so thoroughly, makes it feel all the more dramatic (to me).

I don't know what it was like in the '60s, when Walt seemed frustrated with the area around DL. Maybe the sightlines were more compromised back then?

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I don't know what it was like in the '60s, when Walt seemed frustrated with the area around DL. Maybe the sightlines were more compromised back then?

To answer my own question a bit..I remember reading that Anaheim has agreed to work with Disney in recent years, setting strict signage codes for businesses adjacent to Disneyland so they don't look as tacky and distracting as they (apparently) once did.

I assume Disney could get the same agreements out of local authorities in Florida if they ever felt like their neighbors were starting to get too far from the feel Disney wants for the area. Central Florida knows where its tourism dollars come from.

 

[Biff215]

Personally, I'm not upset with the loss of land to build more parks. I'm upset that we are asking the 'outside world' that Walt hated at DL to come right to WDW.

That's exactly the point. It's going to become another Disneyland in a matter of years.

When I stayed at the Marriott in Disneyland, I literally could have hit Space Mountain with a rock and a good throw. I could totally understand Walt's vision for Florida once we actually saw the DLR area.

I don't see this ever happening at WDW. Open space is great, but if I'm really concerned about getting away from the outside world I'll travel to the wilderness somewhere, not WDW. :ROFLOL:

 

[TheBeatles]

:hurl: