WDW Taking a Hit Over Gator and Massacre ...

[SorcererMC]

As to the report, aside from of course the sympathy for the actual victims, I also feel badly for the CM's involved. I have no doubt whatever they did or did not do with the guest complaints was per Disney policy - one imagines they got sightings nearly every day that amounted to nothing even when dutifully reported. The larger institutional issues here aren't their fault, though I am sure they will forever feel some form of "If only I had..." guilt that they didn't earn.

Yes, for the CMs, the tourists who saw something and said so, the families in the area who may have witnessed it...the incident in its entirety is awful. I find myself angered by the fact that more wasn't done to prevent it (eg the institutional issues), and I wonder if Disney has really 'done enough' in response, ie has there been any accountability? That's an internal organizational issue and I haven't seen any reports of how they are handling that, other than that they are working on their guest communications.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, for the CMs, the tourists who saw something and said so, the families in the area who may have witnessed it...the incident in its entirety is awful. I find myself angered by the fact that more wasn't done to prevent it (eg the institutional issues), and I wonder if Disney has really 'done enough' in response, ie has there been any accountability? That's an internal organizational issue and I haven't seen any reports of how they are handling that, other than that they are working on their guest communications.

They put up signs and some permanent barriers which are a whole lot better than just no swimming signs. Where I think they could do a little better still is educating guests on not feeding the gators. At a minimum they should hand out a flyer at checkin or something just reminding guests not to feed the wildlife.

 

[SorcererMC]

They put up signs and some permanent barriers which are a whole lot better than just no swimming signs. Where I think they could do a little better still is educating guests on not feeding the gators. At a minimum they should hand out a flyer at checkin or something just reminding guests not to feed the wildlife.

Yes, I know the changes that they made to the beaches, etc. Agreed on making guests more aware. All of that is necessary at this point. The issue I'm referring to (in terms of prevention and in retrospect) is - what is the internal organizational culture/ behavior? IF complaints aren't being taken seriously by CMs or mgmt, how are they addressing that? If steps were taken, how were they inadequate? No single person may be accountable as to what happened, but it's an issue of failure at the organizational level. We don't know what the frequency of complaints about gators in the lagoon may have been this summer (while we know that feeding them was an issue).

 

[peter11435]

Yes, I know the changes that they made to the beaches, etc. Agreed on making guests more aware. All of that is necessary at this point. The issue I'm referring to (in terms of prevention and in retrospect) is - what is the internal organizational culture/ behavior? IF complaints aren't being taken seriously by CMs or mgmt, how are they addressing that? If steps were taken, how were they inadequate? No single person may be accountable as to what happened, but it's an issue of failure at the organizational level. We don't know what the frequency of complaints about gators in the lagoon may have been this summer (while we know that feeding them was an issue).

Every cast member at WDW was retrained on the proper procedures to follow if one is spotted.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, I know the changes that they made to the beaches, etc. Agreed on making guests more aware. All of that is necessary at this point. The issue I'm referring to (in terms of prevention and in retrospect) is - what is the internal organizational culture/ behavior? IF complaints aren't being taken seriously by CMs or mgmt, how are they addressing that? If steps were taken, how were they inadequate? No single person may be accountable as to what happened, but it's an issue of failure at the organizational level. We don't know what the frequency of complaints about gators in the lagoon may have been this summer (while we know that feeding them was an issue).

I assume that complaints will be taken more serious now...at least while the incident is fresh on people's mind. I don't think they will make the internal policies public but CMs will probably talk so we may hear some info on it. I think they will be more aggressive in removing (aka killing) gators from the WDW waters. I don't think they will publicize that too much either for fear of PETA or some other animal rights group getting involved. Better to quietly deal with the problem.

What we have seen so far is mostly directions on how CMs should deal with questions from guests on the attack itself. I don't think the responses were inappropriate. There needs to be a good way to warn guests of danger without creating unnecessary fear or sensationalizing the story. Everyone wants to be part of a big story and I can see how CMs would want to talk about it a lot. It's a good practice to give CMs talking points when guests do ask questions so they have a consistent story and facts to present instead of whisper down the line stories.

 

[JohnD]

They put up signs and some permanent barriers which are a whole lot better than just no swimming signs. Where I think they could do a little better still is educating guests on not feeding the gators. At a minimum they should hand out a flyer at checkin or something just reminding guests not to feed the wildlife.

Building the bungalows didn't help. I would argue that they actually accelerated the problem. I can see it now: You're in an easy chair with snacks and an adult beverage over the water. Either food and/or crumbs just finds its way through the cracks in the deck or you spot a gator and just decide to throw food to it.

 

[rob0519]

Yes, I know the changes that they made to the beaches, etc. Agreed on making guests more aware. All of that is necessary at this point. The issue I'm referring to (in terms of prevention and in retrospect) is - what is the internal organizational culture/ behavior? IF complaints aren't being taken seriously by CMs or mgmt, how are they addressing that? If steps were taken, how were they inadequate? No single person may be accountable as to what happened, but it's an issue of failure at the organizational level. We don't know what the frequency of complaints about gators in the lagoon may have been this summer (while we know that feeding them was an issue).

Understandably, this is an important internal issue for Disney. Having been in large organizations for over 40 years I can say with a fair degree of certainty, any communications, policy discussions / changes, cultural or behavioral changes will be marked highly confidential. So unless there is an insider in middle to upper management that is willing to share, leak, whatever those internal communications, the only way the public will know the company's response is to watch the behavior of the cast members in the parks and resorts and any physical changes that have been or will be made in the future. Making such things public would only open Disney to more scrutiny in the press, which is not the best interest of the company.

 

[SorcererMC]

Thanks @GoofGoof and @peter11435 that is along the lines of what I was wondering.

Edit: and thanks @rob0519 . Yes, I think it would be internally confidential, I just want to know that it is happening on some level.

 

[GoofGoof]

Building the bungalows didn't help. I would argue that they actually accelerated the problem. I can see it now: You're in an easy chair with snacks and an adult beverage over the water. Either food and/or crumbs just finds its way through the cracks in the deck or you spot a gator and just decide to throw food to it.

They probably didn't help,but I think the bungalow aspect of this issue is a bit overblown on these boards. The bungalows are highly unpopular since they fundamentally changed an iconic, original WDW resort and the vast majority of guests will never stay in them. I get the dislike. I am sure that some guests staying at the bungalows illegally fed wildlife, but that happens other places too. They even caught local firefighters doing it. There are only 20 bungalows vs tens of thousands of other hotel rooms. I just think it's a convenient excuse to dump on something unpopular vs the real root of the problem.

 

[GoofGoof]

Understandably, this is an important internal issue for Disney. Having been in large organizations for over 40 years I can say with a fair degree of certainty, any communications, policy discussions / changes, cultural or behavioral changes will be marked highly confidential. So unless there is an insider in middle to upper management that is willing to share, leak, whatever those internal communications, the only way the public will know the company's response is to watch the behavior of the cast members in the parks and resorts and any physical changes that have been or will be made in the future. Making such things public would only open Disney to more scrutiny in the press, which is not the best interest of the company.

This^^^

The only info we have so far on internal communications was the CM who leaked pictures of the talking points Disney put out. She was fired over it then re-hired when they got a lot of social media blow back over the firing. I imagine that leaking that type of info is a big no-no and taken very seriously.

 

[JohnD]

They probably didn't help,but I think the bungalow aspect of this issue is a bit overblown on these boards. The bungalows are highly unpopular since they fundamentally changed an iconic, original WDW resort and the vast majority of guests will never stay in them. I get the dislike. I am sure that some guests staying at the bungalows illegally fed wildlife, but that happens other places too. They even caught local firefighters doing it. There are only 20 bungalows vs tens of thousands of other hotel rooms. I just think it's a convenient excuse to dump on something unpopular vs the real root of the problem.

Maybe. I'm reading through the new Unofficial Guide. To say that the authors don't like the bungalows is an understatement. They say having to listen to the ferries' horns is unbearable. But I do think that the bungalows are a contributing problem. Alligators now have a more ready place for food so more likely to hang out in the area. One day one or more make their way toward GF and spot what looks to them like a small animal hunched over. We know what happened next.

At my workplace, we had a gator that hung out on a ring around a water fountain in the complex's pond. One day, idiot co-workers started calling it, then it would come over to the deck, sink to the bottom and open its mouth while they threw bread, etc. to the fish, turtles, and now gator. Eventually, I spotted it on land and told the Director. The gator was getting brave. She didn't waste time in calling FWC to having hauled off.

 

[peter11435]

This^^^

The only info we have so far on internal communications was the CM who leaked pictures of the talking points Disney put out. She was fired over it then re-hired when they got a lot of social media blow back over the firing. I imagine that leaking that type of info is a big no-no and taken very seriously.

The talking points you are referring to were not actually put out by "Disney." They came from a single manager in a single area and were quickly removed. They were very different from the actual communications to cast from the company.

 

[SorcererMC]

The talking points you are referring to were not actually put out by "Disney." They came from a single manager in a single area and were quickly removed. They were very different from the actual communications to cast from the company.

I just read news reports on this, as I had forgotten about it, it happened ~July 17.

To reiterate that the talking points were not company policy - the College Program member who leaked it and was fired, was offered her job back, by MK VP Dan Cockerell in person. That tells me that management is taking all of these related issues quite seriously.

 

[Horizons1]

Meh, "he who shall not be mentioned" gets no free advertising from me. There's only one person who's ever been completely banned from these forums..... you've been around longer than me. You should know who i mean.

True, but I really don't keep up with this palce. Sometimes I'm here and sometimes I'm gone for a while.

 

[Bairstow]

The talking points you are referring to were not actually put out by "Disney." They came from a single manager in a single area and were quickly removed. They were very different from the actual communications to cast from the company.

What a mess. That's still going to be litigation dynamite if another guest is attacked and chooses to sue.

 

[TXDisney]

I think it's WDW price that is more creating a down year. It's getting quite pricey to stay at a delixe for a week with s family. Also it's summer. And a hot one at that. People aren't as intrigued to sit in lines when it's 95 degrees with 90% humidity. I don't think the gator incident made too much of a difference. Atleast not significant enough to point to that.

 

[rob0519]

I'm a card-carrying member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) and I look forward to the addition of gator on some of the WDW menus. Good stuff! Love to get me some deep fried gator-on-a-stick

 

[King Panda 77]

I'm a card-carrying member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) and I look forward to the addition of gator on some of the WDW menus. Good stuff! Love to get me some deep fried gator-on-a-stick

How do i join ?

 

[kelknight84]

As a native Floridian, gators are part of life in the south and are not an issue unless messed with, fed, or you get in the way of them hunting. Ya'll would be surprised how many are around that you don't see unless you know what to look for. There are also laws about them and Disney can't just do whatever they want. Like any wild animal, you take precautions but they aren't to be feared. This was a tragic accident with no one at fault. If one gator was removed there would be one the next day to take its place. Disney is still in the real world and especially the resorts are not in a bubble like the theme parks. Here are some excerpts from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission.

The Statewide Nuisance Alligator Program (SNAP) is administered by the FWC's Division of Hunting and Game Management. SNAP is one of five components of Florida’s comprehensive Alligator Management Program. Its mission is to address complaints concerning alligators.

Persons with concerns about an alligator may call our toll-free Nuisance Alligator Hotline at 866-FWC-GATOR (866-392-4286). Generally, an alligator may be deemed a nuisance if it is at least four feet in length and the caller believes it poses a threat to people, pets or property.

SNAP uses contracted nuisance alligator trappers throughout the state to remove alligators from locations where they are unwanted or unwelcome. If a complaint meets the qualifying criteria, SNAP will issue a permit to a contracted nuisance alligator trapper authorizing the removal of the animal.

Complainants must be able to grant legal access to the property on which the alligator is located. SNAP does not permit the removal of nuisance alligators from private or publicly managed property without first obtaining permission from the property owner or management authority.

What is a nuisance alligator?

Generally, an alligator may be considered a nuisance if it is at least four feet in length and is believed to pose a threat to people, pets or property.

Why aren’t small alligators removed?
Alligators less than 4 feet in length are not large enough to be dangerous unless handled. They eat fish, frogs and other small animals. Typically, they are not large enough to be a threat even to small pets. The mere presence of a small alligator is not cause for concern.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maybe. I'm reading through the new Unofficial Guide. To say that the authors don't like the bungalows is an understatement. They say having to listen to the ferries' horns is unbearable. But I do think that the bungalows are a contributing problem. Alligators now have a more ready place for food so more likely to hang out in the area. One day one or more make their way toward GF and spot what looks to them like a small animal hunched over. We know what happened next.

At my workplace, we had a gator that hung out on a ring around a water fountain in the complex's pond. One day, idiot co-workers started calling it, then it would come over to the deck, sink to the bottom and open its mouth while they threw bread, etc. to the fish, turtles, and now gator. Eventually, I spotted it on land and told the Director. The gator was getting brave. She didn't waste time in calling FWC to having hauled off.

I'm not saying it couldn't have contributed, but there are some who tried to blame the whole problem on the bungalows. The bungalows are really close to the ferries (as you said was commented on by the unofficial guide writers). Large moving boats and loud noises are not the ideal environment for gators. There is no actual evidence that the gator in question or any of the ones caught and destroyed were being fed by guests at the Poly. In the wild gators can travel large distances to find food so it's possible the gator in question was not even a frequent visitor of the 7 seas lagoon. I've personally witnessed people feeding gators at other WDW resorts too. Some Reedy Creek Fire Department workers admitting to feeding gators by their station. It was/is rampant around the whole property, not just at those 20 bungalows.