WDW Taking a Hit Over Gator and Massacre ...

[Bairstow]

I look forward to seeing apologies to the Graves family from the forum members who posted hundreds of times in the week following this tragedy that it was the fault of the boy for swimming where he shouldn't have been, or the fault of his parents for ignoring the No Swimming signs, or that his parents had been drinking, or that his parents were sue-happy and would bleed Disney dry, or any of the numerous other blame-the-victim theories that abounded on this forum.

I wouldn't hold your breath.
It's too much fun to pass judgment on others without hearing the facts.
All we can hope for is a long period of time before another child dies tragically, because the chorus of online voices blaming the parent(s) is inevitable.

 

[TeriofTerror]

I wouldn't hold your breath.
It's too much fun to pass judgment on others without hearing the facts.
All we can hope for is a long period of time before another child dies tragically, because the chorus of online voices blaming the parent(s) is inevitable.

Even worse, IMHO, was the podcast hosted by -- shall we say -- "Doubting Thomas" stating: 1. The father was inventing portions of his report, and 2. There was "something fishy" about the family deciding not to sue.
At that point, I unsubscribed from the podcast.

 

[Bairstow]

Even worse, IMHO, was the podcast hosted by -- shall we say -- "Doubting Thomas" stating: 1. The father was inventing portions of his report, and 2. There was "something fishy" about the family deciding not to sue.
At that point, I unsubscribed from the podcast.

Yeah, that's pretty disgusting.

I wonder if his fans will just let it slide.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Yeah, that's pretty disgusting.

I wonder if his fans will just let it slide.

I'll be completely honest: this was just a tiny straw that broke the camel's back. (Am I the camel? I may need to rethink that cliché.) It's just not a good podcast. The host spends an insane amount of time congratulating himself for reporting rumors that come to pass (all of which I hear first from here or Jim Hill before they hit Tom's website or podcast), but never seems to acknowledge when he's flat-out wrong.
There is one guy on his podcast, Justin, who occasionally has interesting things to say. If he started his own podcast, I'd give it a shot.
But at this point, I think I've purged all but maybe two or three Disney podcasts. And that's saying a lot, because I listen to a ton of podcasts.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Even worse, IMHO, was the podcast hosted by -- shall we say -- "Doubting Thomas" stating: 1. The father was inventing portions of his report, and 2. There was "something fishy" about the family deciding not to sue.
At that point, I unsubscribed from the podcast.

I think i'm on record of saying that the host of that podcast and owner of that website can fornicate with himself.

I stand by that statement.

 

[PhotoDave219]

This report answers all my questions. I'm satisfied with FWC & OCSO's investigation. So far I'm satisfied with Disney's response.

Stop feeding the alligators.

 

[drew81]

The DNA and bite marks are inconclusive? And how do they know the trapper got the right one?

 

[TeriofTerror]

The DNA and bite marks are inconclusive? And how do they know the trapper got the right one?

Honestly? I don't think it matters if they got "the right one". They got rid of every potentially dangerous gator they found. They are no longer acting as though it could never happen, and are taking some action (whatever thoughts may be on effectiveness) to try to prevent future attacks. There's no way to get rid of every gator in WDW, just like no ocean beach can eliminate every shark.
If they could do that and eliminate attacks by venomous snakes, I'd have moved to Florida already.

 

[drew81]

Honestly? I don't think it matters if they got "the right one". They got rid of every potentially dangerous gator they found. They are no longer acting as though it could never happen, and are taking some action (whatever thoughts may be on effectiveness) to try to prevent future attacks. There's no way to get rid of every gator in WDW, just like no ocean beach can eliminate every shark.
If they could do that and eliminate attacks by venomous snakes, I'd have moved to Florida already.

An earlier press release by FWC had suggested they were "confident" it had been caught. That is why I brought it up.

If it wasn't caught then why would they say that? To make Mickey's press team happy? Only asking the question. So earlier in the Summer they use the word confident but now the word inconclusive is used? That's the question I would like to have answered.

 

[TeriofTerror]

An earlier press release by FWC had suggested they were "confident" it had been caught. That is why I brought it up.

If it wasn't caught then why would they say that? To make Mickey's press team happy? Only asking the question. So earlier in the Summer they use the word confident but now the word inconclusive is used? That's the question I would like to have answered.

Mayor Vaughn was sure the tiger shark attacked Alex Kitner, too.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The DNA and bite marks are inconclusive? And how do they know the trapper got the right one?

I'm confident that they didn't let anything live. If the rumblings from behind the scenes are true, there were a lot of boots made.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Mayor Vaughn was sure the tiger shark attacked Alex Kitner, too.

"And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock."

(Yes, I have that page bookmarked)

 

[TeriofTerror]

"And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock."

(Yes, I have that page bookmarked)

I love that movie so much. It's tied with Casablanca as my all-time favorite, closely followed by All About Eve and The Godfather.
Which makes the news about GMR hit all the harder.

 

[Horizons1]

Even worse, IMHO, was the podcast hosted by -- shall we say -- "Doubting Thomas" stating: 1. The father was inventing portions of his report, and 2. There was "something fishy" about the family deciding not to sue.
At that point, I unsubscribed from the podcast.

I gotta find out what podcast you guys are talking about.

 

[DisneyDreamer08]

The most horrifying part of the report was that the dad actually saw the gator grab the boy by the head. That image will live in his nightmares forever. I can't even...

 

[PhotoDave219]

I gotta find out what podcast you guys are talking about.

Meh, "he who shall not be mentioned" gets no free advertising from me. There's only one person who's ever been completely banned from these forums..... you've been around longer than me. You should know who i mean.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Meh, "he who shall not be mentioned" gets no free advertising from me. There's only one person who's ever been completely banned from these forums..... you've been around longer than me. You should know who i mean.

Voldemort?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Voldemort?

Voldemort is more welcome here.....

 

[AEfx]

There's no way to get rid of every gator in WDW, just like no ocean beach can eliminate every shark.

That's not entirely true.

You'd need to qualify it with, "The way WDW is currently designed, there's no way..." They may not be able to 100% prevent alligator presence no matter what, but they sure as heck didn't have to make an ideal habitat for them and invite them on in to mingle in guest areas, either.

Basically, we are seeing the long-term impact of what they did 40-50 years ago when they flooded that swamp to make a vacation paradise. The design flaws of the open water-ways, essentially creating an incubator of predatory animals who after several generations have become very accustomed to humans and have become unnaturally close to them. They really couldn't have done it any "better" for the effect to have happened - a populated yet somewhat isolated area with in and out access.

As pretty as the beaches at the GF and the Poly are, they were TERRIBLE ideas. They didn't take into account the ecological changes that would occur. Today, they wouldn't have been allowed to do it, period - flooding hundreds of acres for a non-functional, cosmetic reason (they wanted to make the illusion of "waterfront" property). I'm far from a tree-hugger, but even I can see the folly in the venture.

I expect long-term, WDW is planning wholesale changes to the entire area.

As to the report, aside from of course the sympathy for the actual victims, I also feel badly for the CM's involved. I have no doubt whatever they did or did not do with the guest complaints was per Disney policy - one imagines they got sightings nearly every day that amounted to nothing even when dutifully reported. The larger institutional issues here aren't their fault, though I am sure they will forever feel some form of "If only I had..." guilt that they didn't earn.

 

[GoofGoof]

That's not entirely true.

You'd need to qualify it with, "The way WDW is currently designed, there's no way..." They may not be able to 100% prevent alligator presence no matter what, but they sure as heck didn't have to make an ideal habitat for them and invite them on in to mingle in guest areas, either.

Basically, we are seeing the long-term impact of what they did 40-50 years ago when they flooded that swamp to make a vacation paradise. The design flaws of the open water-ways, essentially creating an incubator of predatory animals who after several generations have become very accustomed to humans and have become unnaturally close to them. They really couldn't have done it any "better" for the effect to have happened - a populated yet somewhat isolated area with in and out access.

As pretty as the beaches at the GF and the Poly are, they were TERRIBLE ideas. They didn't take into account the ecological changes that would occur. Today, they wouldn't have been allowed to do it, period - flooding hundreds of acres for a non-functional, cosmetic reason (they wanted to make the illusion of "waterfront" property). I'm far from a tree-hugger, but even I can see the folly in the venture.

I expect long-term, WDW is planning wholesale changes to the entire area.

As to the report, aside from of course the sympathy for the actual victims, I also feel badly for the CM's involved. I have no doubt whatever they did or did not do with the guest complaints was per Disney policy - one imagines they got sightings nearly every day that amounted to nothing even when dutifully reported. The larger institutional issues here aren't their fault, though I am sure they will forever feel some form of "If only I had..." guilt that they didn't earn.

Good post. I think a contibuting factor was also complacency or a false sense of security. The conditions have been roughly the same for many years and there were very infrequent issues. Because of that, CMs, management and guests failed to respect the danger that these animals can pose. It wasn't that long ago that WDW allowed swimming in the lakes. I don't think the company viewed these gators as a real threat to guests. Obviously, that is now changed and they will take plenty of steps to make the areas more safe. Your point about generations of gators getting more comfortable with humans is a really good one. The only way to really keep the gators out is to stop feeding them. They go where the food is and those lakes by WDW are not the ideal setting for natural hunting.