Gail Hayden
New Member
Nope, I would feel excluded and you KNOW how I HATE anyone being excluded from anything at anytime.speck76 said:
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GenerationX
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting discussion. In Illinois, there is still debate over a casino in Chicago. Proponents of this idea (including Mayor Daley) stress the additional revenue, largely from convention attendees. Chicago hosts a bazillion, give or take, conventions every year, as does Orlando.
I mention this because I agree with the Mayor, and I agree with the concept of a casino within WDW property. It makes good business sense. It would provide an additional entertainment option for adults and a way for Disney to make more money.
From a moral/magical perspective, I don't have an issue with it because the adult-oriented entertainment precedent has already been set with Pleasure Island. A casino, to me, is just an adult version of arcades with tickets. They both feature games of skill and luck with the chance to win a prize.
I mention this because I agree with the Mayor, and I agree with the concept of a casino within WDW property. It makes good business sense. It would provide an additional entertainment option for adults and a way for Disney to make more money.
From a moral/magical perspective, I don't have an issue with it because the adult-oriented entertainment precedent has already been set with Pleasure Island. A casino, to me, is just an adult version of arcades with tickets. They both feature games of skill and luck with the chance to win a prize.
STGRhost
Member
speck76 said:
I don't think that logic is flawed (Though it may be a bit extreme). People in this thread are asking for adult entertainment. If we're going to consider a casino, why not a strip club or a brothel? All of them make money, all of them appeal to a segment of the population (and not always the same one.) If we REALLY want to get in to "something for everyone", why not include these other things? If they are inside a building, where children are not allowed, why couldn't we consider it?
Another thing I was thinking about- with the (sort-of) exception of PI(Mannequins and BET), and Victoria and Albert's (IIRC), are there any places on property that prohibit children? Or do even the more "adult" places on property allow kids if accompanied by an adult? In fact, don't most folks on this thread, when adults without children ask what they can do to get away from all the kids, suggest that a trip to Disney may not be for them?
I wonder, too, if this would really be the good business decision some of you think it would be - so many of us go to WDW without kids, and enjoy what they already have. Would this make that much of a difference to those people? Would it draw in that many people who would otherwise make a trip to Vegas, or Atlantic City, etc.?
Finally, consider this thread - look at the extreme opinions here, and the supposedly negative reaction to the survey that started this whole thing. Is Disney going to put its self in the position to potentially alienate many of their guests? (I don't know the answer, either - just thought I'd throw that out there).
cherrynegra
Well-Known Member
But again, this begs the question, why should strip clubs and brothels go hand in hand with casinos? I think the one thing people should remember is that when you hear the word "casino," of course you envision the Vegas Strip, but the truth is there are many casinos that stand alone without all of the "stuff" that you find in Vegas or Reno or Atlantic City.
There are many classy casinos that are considered "local casinos" in Nevada that I prefer over the strip. There in beautiful buildings with beautiful surrondings and they don't have all the glittlery lights or tacky architecture you would expect. They look like beautiful country clubs. I think if Disney decided to do this, that would be fine. A nice tasteful club to serve those adults who don't want to go to the parks. And since it appears that Disney is trying to go after a larger slice of the convention business, I understand why Disney is "thinking" about a casino.
Yes. This is a very good observation. Considering all the negative feedback Disney gets from certain groups over Gay Days, it's not far fetched to believe that those same groups or others would again raise their banners against Disney as being "anti-family" if they decided to move forward with a casino.
GenerationX
Well-Known Member
There is not the same social stigma attached to a casino or a bar as there is a brothel. While all may be legal in some places, which one would you not admit to frequenting? Casinos and bars are mainstream, brothels are not.
The primary target market is the convention goer. Adults already at WDW on vacation would be second. I doubt it would convince those already planning a Vegas vacation to switch. The primary and secondary targets could easily support a casino.
I don't know either, but what was the reaction when they talked about building PI?
longfamily
New Member
This is the year 2004, a year that casino's and strip clubs no longer can be catagorized as the underbelly of civilization. These institutions are no longer the seedy places once run by Mafia men and Hustlers. All though the sticky floor establishments of yesterday can still be found in the darker areas of the universe, Today these establishments are publicly traded companies with great reputations. Gaming has become a pastime that can be enjoyed by every age. What is the difference between gaming for money and playing X-Box? Both have potential for addiction. The majority of children spend more time playing on a consul than playing with friends outside. Don't believe me? Check out your neighborhood on any given Saturday. Does it look the same as it did when we were kids? Doubtful. Casino's are the same, but it is an adult version of the same. Casino's allow adults to place thier money in the hope that they win money. How is this different that the "ticket" games available for children? Put your money in, win enough tickets, get prizes. Do those of you opposed to gambling let your kids play these games? But the casino is not the issue right? It's all of the elements that come with a casino like escorts and strippers? Don't be so niave. Escorts are available 24 hours a day in Orlando now. There are so many conventions that go through that town that these girls work constantly. The truth is that you would be hard pressed to find any big city that doesn't have prostitutes. Did you really think Disney World was an exception? They are already there. They don't all look like "trailer park" crack heads. Most call girls are fairly pretty with even a degree of education. As far as strip clubs go, the element inside is fairly the same. Beautiful girls working on degrees or working on finding a decent paying job after earning thier degree. These clubs are not the same as they were a decade ago. Most of you who see these places as evil have not visited lately. Today, strip clubs are an adult form of entertainment that is comfortable for men and women. They can be compared to bawdy theatre. Most of you will disagree with me based on your own values. Hey that's okay, it's my opinion. However, most negative view points stem from inaccurate information. A Disney casino, were it ever implemented (which it would not) would not cause the induction of institutions, sponsered by Disney, that still have a stigma attached to them. Disney would never alienate it's more conservative customers being doing that. You can all sleep well at night knowing that.
<embed src="http://www.qubefactor.com/~wdwmedia/mkt/files/vivalasvegas.mid" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" LOOP="false" AUTOSTART="1">
another thought...
which how much some of us spend at WDW, this might be our one chance to get some of it back
another thought...
which how much some of us spend at WDW, this might be our one chance to get some of it back
Gail Hayden
New Member
You make some great points and present them in a way that causes some reflection on what you say.STGRhost said:
There are already strip clubs and brothels in the WDW vicinity. There are no land casinos. If Disney did decide to put in brothels and strip clubs, I doubt I would object at all (as long as Dee did not get any ideas, LOL).
I get very riled up over the suggestion to go elsewhere if I don't want to be around children when at WDW. I don't want childfree 100% of the time, just for a small part of the evening. V&A's is not child free, btw. Another place that does not allow children is on the BW, one of the clubs is for 21 and over only.
I cannot answer about the draw aspect, but, I can say, I would love a casino.
Gail Hayden
New Member
Ah, yes, I can hear the Bibles a thumpin as I sit here.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
Hmmm
Well first off, I thought the Baby Boomer generation was going to be broke, penniless, with no health care, no social security, and with kids who couldn't afford to live on their own? What happened to all of that political rhetoric Speck? Pretty convenient for campaign rhetoric, just not for the sake of this argument eh?
And as for the backhanded comments about families, what is a family, and being excluded, blah, blah, blah, let me say this: For people who are supposed to be soooooo open-minded about ALL things, you people (and you know who you are), sure are good at taking one or two comments entirely out of context within the framework of debating issues.
First of all, to take the view that you don't know what constitutes a family is a COP OUT. Plain and simple. Now, secondly, neither I, nor anyone else here has tried to tell anyone how they should live their lives. NOT ONCE!!! Have some of us offered OUR views as to what WE believe constitutes family values, and good clean fun at a FAMILY PARK??? Yes, as a matter of fact, we have. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't someone once say that his parks were for families?!!!! I'm thinking he did. But what did he know right? He's only the most successful theme park owner, ummm, EVER!!!!!
(Yes, I know: he's passed on, hadn't owned the company in years, blah, blah, blah.) You all know exactly what I meant by that last comment, so don't even go there. The fact is that when some of you (again, you know who you are) say "what consititutes a family?" you are talking from a political view, and not from your heart. You say that because it supports your "other" political views, and has nothing to do, actually, with how it fits into the framework of this debate.
Thirdly, for those of you who somehow can't seem to find enought entertainment at WDW: YOU NEED HELP!!! If you can't find enough entertainment there, without the need of a casino, you have a problem. They have support groups for it, and I would suggest you sign up.
So, I am going to surmize by your comments about WDW "needing" a casino, for whatever the reason, is really you saying that there just isn't enough to do there. That somehow, 47 square miles of entertainment just doen't do it for you.
Wow, and I thought I was difficult to please.
Well first off, I thought the Baby Boomer generation was going to be broke, penniless, with no health care, no social security, and with kids who couldn't afford to live on their own? What happened to all of that political rhetoric Speck? Pretty convenient for campaign rhetoric, just not for the sake of this argument eh?
And as for the backhanded comments about families, what is a family, and being excluded, blah, blah, blah, let me say this: For people who are supposed to be soooooo open-minded about ALL things, you people (and you know who you are), sure are good at taking one or two comments entirely out of context within the framework of debating issues.
First of all, to take the view that you don't know what constitutes a family is a COP OUT. Plain and simple. Now, secondly, neither I, nor anyone else here has tried to tell anyone how they should live their lives. NOT ONCE!!! Have some of us offered OUR views as to what WE believe constitutes family values, and good clean fun at a FAMILY PARK??? Yes, as a matter of fact, we have. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't someone once say that his parks were for families?!!!! I'm thinking he did. But what did he know right? He's only the most successful theme park owner, ummm, EVER!!!!!
(Yes, I know: he's passed on, hadn't owned the company in years, blah, blah, blah.) You all know exactly what I meant by that last comment, so don't even go there. The fact is that when some of you (again, you know who you are) say "what consititutes a family?" you are talking from a political view, and not from your heart. You say that because it supports your "other" political views, and has nothing to do, actually, with how it fits into the framework of this debate.
Thirdly, for those of you who somehow can't seem to find enought entertainment at WDW: YOU NEED HELP!!! If you can't find enough entertainment there, without the need of a casino, you have a problem. They have support groups for it, and I would suggest you sign up.
So, I am going to surmize by your comments about WDW "needing" a casino, for whatever the reason, is really you saying that there just isn't enough to do there. That somehow, 47 square miles of entertainment just doen't do it for you.
Wow, and I thought I was difficult to please.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
Gail, it seems that you have a problem with labels. I'm not here to attack anyone or their beliefs. It's interesting that the only arguments made for having a casino are for entertainment when I'm bored. And I thought that Disney was already making lots of money. That's what they unions say!!! Right? They've got plenty of money. Billions in fact. Why do they need more right?
:veryconfu HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
confusing to ya?
pretty clear to me.
pretty clear to me.
cherrynegra
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree with your analogy here. Just because a person likes to visit a casino suddenly makes them in need of a twelve-step program? Okay, yes, there is plenty of entertainment in the sense of the parks and shopping, but I don't see why that should preclude Disney from building a casino if they wanted to. Using your analogy then, anyone who frequents the bars and clubs at PI are a bunch of drunks who need to twelve step it.
Look, like it or not, Disney is a huge corporation that is in the entertainment business. And if they feel that they can get a larger slice of the tourist market in Orlando by building a casino, then that's what they'll do. It's all about what can Disney do to attract new customers. Customers who might like the parks, but wouldn't mind have something different to go to.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
okay then, should it be casino, or money put into upgrades, rehabs, maintenance, and payroll.