WDW Park Hours ... A Historical Perspective

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
*b!tches and moans*

:lookaroun:lol:
Can you do it just so we can see them? For historical purposes?:lookaroun The Map Collector in me is interested....

I loved the old style of Guide Maps.:D

Nah ... sorry.

But perhaps one day a friendly spirit may be willing to part with some extra old maps (including from the other parks/resorts) and he'll gift them to you.

Anything's possible when you believe ... :xmas:
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Valid question. And it all depends.

On some days at some park(s), the majority may well have access to EMH.

But my response to that would be so what?

Let's say tonight the makeup of on property guests to off property is 56-44. So what does that matter to the thousands (tens of thousands likely) who can't stay late. And what if they are spending today at the Studios or Epcot? How does having one night with three extra hours at MK help them? Well, of course, it doesn't.

EMH is a nice perq, no doubt about it.

But having parks that were open later for EVERY guest and had every attraction, shop and dining locale open was clearly better for all.

I was recently at Disney for nine days and was only able to take advantage of EMH one night. Yes, most of that was 'on me' as I went to Halloween Horror Nights and Sea World ... but when Disney parks had longer hours for all, I didn't have to do so much planning ... much like not holding back tables for locals and walkups at table serve restaurants, it just isn't a guest friendly policy.

EMH seems to reflect a business model that discourages the "casual" Florida tourist (or non-AP local) from spending money at WDW--which seems short-sighted, especially considering the neighboring theme park comeptition has improved over the past twenty years. And not to mention with EMH there are fewer hours in a day for off-property guests---and then you add to that the Magic Your Way pricing, which makes a one or two day ticket ridiculously overpriced (especially when you add the hopping feature)...

It makes you wonder what the current situtation would be if WDW (and DL) had had this kind of management in the 60's and 70's.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
EMH seems to reflect a business model that discourages the "casual" Florida tourist (or non-AP local) from spending money at WDW--which seems short-sighted, especially considering the neighboring theme park comeptition has improved over the past twenty years. And not to mention with EMH there are fewer hours in a day for off-property guests---and then you add to that the Magic Your Way pricing, which makes a one or two day ticket ridiculously overpriced (especially when you add the hopping feature)...

It makes you wonder what the current situtation would be if WDW (and DL) had had this kind of management in the 60's and 70's.

Yeah, there has certainly been a move away from taking care of the locals at all costs.

I think it is stupid from a business perspective.

Locals kept the place from closing (a bit dramatic, but not that much) from 2001-03.

Yet the discounts offered to locals are not any better than any AP (and often general public offers) ... and things once reserved for locals (like the Disney Dining Experience) can now be bought by others.

And everything from EMH vs. night hours for all to not leaving any tables open for walkups at dining locales to pushing hard ticket parties in order to get MK holiday entertainment that used to be free is like giving locals/FLA residents the finger ... no doubt about it!
 

disnyfan89

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry if you feel my comparison of hours in 1994 to 1998 is unfair or comparing apples to oranges. The truth of the matter is there is no way to compare apples to apples in this situation unless I was to go hour by hour for every shop, ride, and dinning location. I'm also sorry if you feel adding EMH is an unfair advantage but the fact of the matter is that it happens every week and therefore is part of the regular schedule.

Also to say it is unfair to add it because not every guest is included is a silly notion to me. Every guest who plans a trip to Walt Disney World resort has the opportunity to take part in EMH by booking a Disney hotel. By not booking a Disney hotel that family has chosen not to allow themselves access into the park for that three hours. That's like saying I should adjust hours because John Doe, who has booked a plane back home, has to leave Epcot three hours early and therefore it's not fair those who have not chosen to leave early get an extra three hours more.

Also, the notion that guest on property do not make up the majority of guest at Walt Disney World seems silly to me. Why wouldn't that be the case? With about 25,000 hotel rooms (not including rooms at the Swan and Dolphin plus hotel plaza whose guest also have access to EMH) on property. Lets say each room is book with an average family of four. That would mean that on any given day there could be 100,000 guest staying on property. When you take into affect that each park has an average attendance of about 30,000 guest that means that on any given day attendance between the four parks is about 132,000 guest. That means that hotel guest can make up about 75% of individuals in attendance. This is of course all estimates based on information at my disposal.

Now lets say that all on property guest (based on an average family of four) take part in Magic Kingdom's EMH. That would put about 100,000 guest in the Magic Kingdom on one night, a number that is close to an average Christmas Day in the Magic Kingdom and close to capacity.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm sorry if you feel my comparison of hours in 1994 to 1998 is unfair or comparing apples to oranges. The truth of the matter is there is no way to compare apples to apples in this situation unless I was to go hour by hour for every shop, ride, and dinning location.

That's just not the case.

It's very simple when comparing operating schedules. You look at when Park A was open at one given time versus the time it is open at another.
It is no more complicated than that -- really!

And you absolutely don't have to go hour by hour for each attraction, shop and dining location. You were the one who tried to bring that into the equation and you won't win any debate on it because Disney has shuttered/closed/combined so many places from even as recently as the 1990s vs. today.

I was just pointing out there's a tangible aspect of less quantity and quality at each individual park (except for DAK) over what was offered back in the 'good old days.'

I'm also sorry if you feel adding EMH is an unfair advantage but the fact of the matter is that it happens every week and therefore is part of the regular schedule.

I feel like I am going around in circles here (anyone else like to step in?), but EMH is not part of the regular schedule. It isn't ... and repeating it ad nauseum here won't make it so.

It is EXTRA magic hours. It is something that happens after regular park CLOSING. It is offered to a select audience of guests. It's no different than a store closing and then offering a special sale for select shoppers.
It is not, however, part of regular operating hours.:hammer::hammer::hammer:

Also to say it is unfair to add it because not every guest is included is a silly notion to me. Every guest who plans a trip to Walt Disney World resort has the opportunity to take part in EMH by booking a Disney hotel. By not booking a Disney hotel that family has chosen not to allow themselves access into the park for that three hours. That's like saying I should adjust hours because John Doe, who has booked a plane back home, has to leave Epcot three hours early and therefore it's not fair those who have not chosen to leave early get an extra three hours more.

No, it isn't the same.

You don't seem to understand the difference from when say EPCOT regularly had 10, 11 and midnight closings to the fact that one night a week (two in recent summers and holiday periods) resort guests can stay for three hours and enjoy select attractions, shops and dining.

Disney cut its hours, in some cases drastically. And then it offered some of them back (and in some cases added when you get a 3 or 4 a.m. EMH at MK on 5-6 nights a year!) for resort guests.

EMH creates a stratification based upon those who stay at WDW resorts and those who don't. And again, it still isn't the benefit you make it out to be. If EC was open until 11 p.m. every night (the ENTIRE park) in 1990, all guests including on-site got to enjoy that. How does having pieces of the park open late one or two nights make up for that?

Also, the notion that guest on property do not make up the majority of guest at Walt Disney World seems silly to me. Why wouldn't that be the case? With about 25,000 hotel rooms (not including rooms at the Swan and Dolphin plus hotel plaza whose guest also have access to EMH) on property. Lets say each room is book with an average family of four. That would mean that on any given day there could be 100,000 guest staying on property. When you take into affect that each park has an average attendance of about 30,000 guest that means that on any given day attendance between the four parks is about 132,000 guest. That means that hotel guest can make up about 75% of individuals in attendance. This is of course all estimates based on information at my disposal.

Now lets say that all on property guest (based on an average family of four) take part in Magic Kingdom's EMH. That would put about 100,000 guest in the Magic Kingdom on one night, a number that is close to an average Christmas Day in the Magic Kingdom and close to capacity.

I could go round and round with you and I think that's what you desire, but you're like a dog chasing its tail here.

Resort attendance varies drastically (remember January is looking at likely a load level in the 40s). All rooms are NEVER booked at any time as there are so many rooms (not to mention people do see the real value of staying off property ... like paying less to stay at the Ritz Carlton Christmas week than a room at a Disney moderate motel will cost) ... some rooms are routinely out of service for rehab work as well (though not nearly enough). Also, many rooms don't have four guests in them. Many people actually come to WDW and don't visit the parks (or spend much time in them) as WDW is a huge convention locale. And as many rooms as WDW has, it's still just a chunk of what is available in metro-Orlando.

Again, sometimes there certainly are a majority of WDW resort guests in Disney parks ... but that is not pertinent to the discussion at hand. And many times that's not the case.

And either way, it doesn't justify Disney closing parks early. A bad economy is one thing. A greedy Mouse led by greedy execs is another.
 

disnyfan89

Well-Known Member
Then we must just agree to disagree. You see a park that closes at midnight. I will continue to see a park that closes at 3am. I will take my glass half full and subject myself to the Walmarting that you continue to warn me of but I will be just as happy if not happier than others.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Then we must just agree to disagree. You see a park that closes at midnight. I will continue to see a park that closes at 3am. I will take my glass half full and subject myself to the Walmarting that you continue to warn me of but I will be just as happy if not happier than others.

Nope.

I see parks that close based upon the official hours offered by TWDC.

It's just that simple. No one is asking you to not enjoy EMHs. Just don't try saying that EMH's are somehow not just that -- Disney isn't misleading anyone.
 

Figment1986

Well-Known Member
FYI: when disney releases the scheduals, they state when EMH is, but they do state the operating hours that it is for ALL GUESTS...

what WDW1974 posted before is the same idea... when it is open to close for ALL GUESTS... not just those who are on property...
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
Valid question. And it all depends.

On some days at some park(s), the majority may well have access to EMH.

But my response to that would be so what?

Let's say tonight the makeup of on property guests to off property is 56-44. So what does that matter to the thousands (tens of thousands likely) who can't stay late. And what if they are spending today at the Studios or Epcot? How does having one night with three extra hours at MK help them? Well, of course, it doesn't.

EMH is a nice perq, no doubt about it.

But having parks that were open later for EVERY guest and had every attraction, shop and dining locale open was clearly better for all.

I was recently at Disney for nine days and was only able to take advantage of EMH one night. Yes, most of that was 'on me' as I went to Halloween Horror Nights and Sea World ... but when Disney parks had longer hours for all, I didn't have to do so much planning ... much like not holding back tables for locals and walkups at table serve restaurants, it just isn't a guest friendly policy.
This statement is a little confusing. Are you saying that you are in favor of holding back tables for locals but that the parks should be open later for everybody. If so, (and I am not saying you are) it seems like you favor equality when it comes to hours, but not for dining. Walkups would be a different case because anyone would have access to that.


Thanks Steve.
 

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
Nope.

I see parks that close based upon the official hours offered by TWDC.

It's just that simple. No one is asking you to not enjoy EMHs. Just don't try saying that EMH's are somehow not just that -- Disney isn't misleading anyone.

Yeah your jerks who expect Disney to close the parks because people won't be there! Yeah ________ that ________! Seriously, 4 parks compared to 3 or less! Yeah, that's not oranges to apples! Take that you optimists who don't see the TWDC as screwing over everyone all the time! And forget this whole idea of preemptive action to a recession! Yeah! Balls to the wall Eisener 90's! YEAH!
 

hwdelien

Member
See, this is the type of 'criticism' I have a problem with.

My facts are quite accurate. What you are doing is comparing apples and oranges by adding in an extra hour perq that is only available to on property guests.

And no matter how you try and spin it, it isn't a fair comparison. Even today, most guests don't stay at WDW (Orlando is the largest hotel and timeshare market in the country).

Adding in something that isn't available to the general public immediately invalidates your comparison. FWIW, early entry was available to resort guests in 1994 too and I didn't (and won't) attempt to include it because it isn't part of regular operating hours.

But your point does illustrate how cutting hours for all guests while tossing in an extra hour perq for select guests is part of the general WalMarting of the product as a whole because ALL guests are paying more and getting less.

As an off-site regular, I whole-heartedly agree. EMH, unfortunately, is a very dismal time for us off-siters as we are ferried out of the park while so many others with their wristbands continue to have fun. I bought a timeshare on my first trip to WDW as an adult and have too much invested to start staying on-site. Having said that, I had to upgrade this year at my timeshare, because they moved to a point system and I seriously considered DVC, but couldn't afford the switch; especially, since I didn't know if I'd be able to unload my current timeshare. Believe me, I'd love to be a DVC owner and I'd be on the other side of the EMH fan club. But, to me, EMH is cruel to us off-siters.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
As an off-site regular, I whole-heartedly agree. EMH, unfortunately, is a very dismal time for us off-siters as we are ferried out of the park while so many others with their wristbands continue to have fun. I bought a timeshare on my first trip to WDW as an adult and have too much invested to start staying on-site. Having said that, I had to upgrade this year at my timeshare, because they moved to a point system and I seriously considered DVC, but couldn't afford the switch; especially, since I didn't know if I'd be able to unload my current timeshare. Believe me, I'd love to be a DVC owner and I'd be on the other side of the EMH fan club. But, to me, EMH is cruel to us off-siters.
I whole heartily agree...But I end up sneaking onto rides anyway.:lookaroun:lol:
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Again, you base it on a fallacy ... that the majority of guests are entitled to EMH. If that were true, why would Disney offer it? It's an enticement to stay at a WDW resort. Period.

The fact that 'regular guests' can stay and shop is really not helping your case as how many people would go to WDW to dine or shop if there weren't attractions?

Also, EMH is NOT part of a regular operating schedule as far as guests are concerned. It is an extra hours perq. If you want to argue that you got more hours by staying on property in July 2008 then you would have in July 1994, go right ahead. But that's not the argument here at all ...

E-Ticket nights also will NEVER be included because that was when resort guests HAD TO PAY $11 a pop to stay in the MK and ride 8-9 attractions for three hours.


Quick question to you or anyone else...

When was EMH implemented?
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Also,

Thanks for posting the past schedules in this thread. It helps us younger adults to know what the park was doing when we were too young to know or care.
 

rsoxguy

Well-Known Member
I believe that WDW1974 is making a valid point based on his figures. To claim any equality between the older schedules he has posted and today's schedules is to deny certain facts regarding Disney's current marketing strategy. Please understand that this statement comes from someone who bears no particular complaint about the product that I am being sold at this time (primarily because I only go to WDW as an AP holder), but the fact remains that we are being enticed to pay for Disney hotels in order to take advantage of a "perk" that used to be given to us with regular park admission. This strategy gives Disney your hotel dollars along with your park admission dollars. Has anyone been sold an eight pack of Pepsi for the price of what used to be a twelve pack? I have. My grocery store has the audacity to claim a "great" sale price on this product without mentioning that I am paying for less soda. Cereal companies have done the same with their boxes. Unfortunately, so has Disney. If you don't stay at their hotel, the park ticket you payed for is worth less (when measured in units of time) than the one held by a resort guest. I have had to leave parks for EMH and special events many times. Any hours of operation beyond my leaving the gate during these instances have constituted less product for more money. I can not complain too loudly if I am willing to go along with the newer system by attending the parks, but I do believe that WDW1974 is justified in his critical observation of Disney's current treatment of guests when referring to park hours. Whether they are justified or not in their practices based on economic factors is certainly up for debate, but the shorter hours and hotel marketing strategies is not. I completely understand that Disney is established for the sake of maximum profit, but they should understand that the average consumer is attempting maximum savings. If the two don't mix, someone is going broke eventually.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This statement is a little confusing. Are you saying that you are in favor of holding back tables for locals but that the parks should be open later for everybody. If so, (and I am not saying you are) it seems like you favor equality when it comes to hours, but not for dining. Walkups would be a different case because anyone would have access to that.

That's exactly what I am saying, so you aren't confused at all (at least when it comes to what I am saying).

And holding back tables really doesn't just favor locals ... it aids anyone who doesn't want to plan where they're going be having dinner on March 11, 2009 months and months in advance. Locals would have no more of advantage then tourists visiting for their once in three-year trip. Anyone would have access. Now, the system clearly is against locals though because they are most likely to decide to just stop in and want dinner.

And the parks should be open later for everyone when and where it makes sense.

I am not saying the MK shouldn't close most nights in January at 8 (as is the case after the latest cuts) ... but if summer of 2009 is busy then I fully believe EPCOT should remain open past 9 p.m. for ALL GUESTS NIGHTLY! (FWIW, one thing Jim MacPhee tried to do when he replaced Brad Rex as VP was to extend hours, but was shot down from above).
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
That's exactly what I am saying, so you aren't confused at all (at least when it comes to what I am saying).

And holding back tables really doesn't just favor locals ... it aids anyone who doesn't want to plan where they're going be having dinner on March 11, 2009 months and months in advance. Locals would have no more of advantage then tourists visiting for their once in three-year trip. Anyone would have access. Now, the system clearly is against locals though because they are most likely to decide to just stop in and want dinner.

And the parks should be open later for everyone when and where it makes sense.

I am not saying the MK shouldn't close most nights in January at 8 (as is the case after the latest cuts) ... but if summer of 2009 is busy then I fully believe EPCOT should remain open past 9 p.m. for ALL GUESTS NIGHTLY! (FWIW, one thing Jim MacPhee tried to do when he replaced Brad Rex as VP was to extend hours, but was shot down from above).

I know. If he were to have his way with a few more things...WOW! What a difference it would make.

A official C25...More hours...:eek:
 

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