WDW literally falling apart

[crazy4disney]

But does anyone here (yourself included) actually think that Disney is unsafe? That’s the problem with the framing of this thread: it tries to paint a very rare occurrence as just another example of how Disney has supposedly gone to the dogs. But as I noted above, a crumbling structure (if that’s what even happened in this instance) is very different from a lightbulb that hasn’t been replaced or an animatronic that hasn’t been fixed. Why would any of us be participating in this forum, much less actually going to WDW, if we really believed its structures and attractions to be poorly maintained from a safety perspective? Why are so many in this thread acting as if a doorway spontaneously falling down is somehow characteristic of Disney’s current state as we actually experience it? I wish the discussion could proceed in a less extreme manner.

Well its been stated by insiders that Space mountain is literally a potential nightmare waiting to happen & if im not mistaken Martin stating way back when he knows CM’s who refuse to ride it… forgive me if im incorrect in stating that. I use to think Disney was infallible when it came to ride safety when it came to the parks that feeling is no longer the case… do i feel unsafe? Definitely not but the feeling i have is basically similar to ones i have when i attend other theme parks…

 

[LittleBuford]

Well its been stated by insiders that Space mountain is literally a potential nightmare waiting to happen & if im not mistaken Martin stating way back when he knows CM’s who refuse to ride it… forgive me if im incorrect in stating that. I use to think Disney was infallible when it came to ride safety when it came to the parks that feeling is no longer the case… do i feel unsafe? Definitely not but the feeling i have is basically similar to ones i have when i attend other theme parks…

I picked his brain about Space Mountain in another thread, in case you’re interested:

I wouldn’t be so bold as to insinuate such a thing.

I for one certainly wouldn’t be holidaying in a theme park I suspected of being unsafe. I’ve never known WDW to have that reputation, despite the framing of this thread.

 

[crazy4disney]

I picked his brain about Space Mountain in another thread, in case you’re interested:

I for one certainly wouldn’t be holidaying in a theme park I suspected of being unsafe. I’ve never known WDW to have that reputation, despite the framing of this thread.

Never said unsafe but it never crossed my mind at Disney that something can happen up until a few years ago tbh… & again in regards to Martin i just recall him mentioning he knows people who are on the inside who will not ride it again. I can be completely wrong it was years ago…

 

[Goofyernmost]

NOTHING is completely safe. Why to we expect a Disney park to be. I believe that it is as safe as possible where human beings are involved. Mistakes can be made accidentally as well as deliberately due to cutting corners or using unskilled people to determine what happens. It is almost always caused by human error in every level of decision making. As long as humans are involved with the building of anything, there will always be the chance of a problem. Why do we expect anything different. Disney has pretty deep pockets ergo the reason for their massive legal department. Even if they didn't give a snot about the safety of guest, they do care about the security of their money.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Your assuming a maintenance issue because of the way the panel was removed. That's a huge leap.


I know someone who had a storefront business that had a car crash into it. The car crash didn't just damage the surface, but had ripple effects in most of the wall that was hit. The whole exterior wall had to be replaced, not just the area that was hit.

Yes, an ECV isn't a car. But those things can pack a punch, and it's not unreasonable to think that a crash into the facade may have damaged parts of the facade above ground.

It isn't obvious that this is a maintenance issue. It isn't obvious that it isn't a maintenance issue. In reality, everyone here is just speculating and has no knowledge of what actually happened.

But of course, taking a measured approach wouldn't fit the narrative.

I'm assuming a maintenance issue due to a familiarity with construction techniques and material properties. There are ways that things fail. This delaminated like something with pre-existing damage to the underlying attachments.

The ECV didn't damage a continuous surface. We're not talking about a stucco wall where the crack spread out across a wide panel. Or where a steel track was pulled along with its attached components. This specific component of the facade was composed of distinct panels furred out around concrete. The panel with the sconce was not undamaged, if you look at the last photo on the page below you can see that the top of the panel is damaged, it is broken at an angle such that the "top" of the panel is higher on the left side than on the right side.

Portion of Keystone Clothiers Building Facade Damaged at Disney's Hollywood Studios

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

The damage extended across multiple pieces, which indicates that some behind them failed significantly to break and pull multiple panels offs. That's multiple, separate points of attachment all failing. That sort of spread out failure is what suggests a pre-existing underlying issue.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well that’s the thing. If the damage or deterioration was behind the panels and nothing was apparently wrong then there’s no maintenance to be done. You wouldn’t seal something just to seal it for no reason. That’s why my question was how and what process is there in place to inspect? Even an outward inspection wouldn’t reveal something hidden behind the panels. Unless they were opened up to view what’s behind You can’t tell it needs fixing.

You seal things up to prevent water intrusion because water can cause concealed damage that is not visible until there is a failure. That's the maintenance. Sealant can be visually inspected.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Can't be an ECV... if it was, those buildings will completely collapse during a hurricane if an ECV can take down part of a wall.

Well, I guess we will find out in about 24-36 hours…

 

[mikejs78]

I'm assuming a maintenance issue due to a familiarity with construction techniques and material properties. There are ways that things fail. This delaminated like something with pre-existing damage to the underlying attachments.

The ECV didn't damage a continuous surface. We're not talking about a stucco wall where the crack spread out across a wide panel. Or where a steel track was pulled along with its attached components. This specific component of the facade was composed of distinct panels furred out around concrete. The panel with the sconce was not undamaged, if you look at the last photo on the page below you can see that the top of the panel is damaged, it is broken at an angle such that the "top" of the panel is higher on the left side than on the right side.

Portion of Keystone Clothiers Building Facade Damaged at Disney's Hollywood Studios

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

The damage extended across multiple pieces, which indicates that some behind them failed significantly to break and pull multiple panels offs. That's multiple, separate points of attachment all failing. That sort of spread out failure is what suggests a pre-existing underlying issue.

Isn't it possible that the damage wasn't to the panels specifically but to the structure behind the panels that was damaged by the ECV?

 

[crazy4disney]

NOTHING is completely safe. Why to we expect a Disney park to be. I believe that it is as safe as possible where human beings are involved. Mistakes can be made accidentally as well as deliberately due to cutting corners or using unskilled people to determine what happens. It is almost always caused by human error in every level of decision making. As long as humans are involved with the building of anything, there will always be the chance of a problem. Why do we expect anything different. Disney has pretty deep pockets ergo the reason for their massive legal department. Even if they didn't give a snot about the safety of guest, they do care about the security of their money.

Like i said. I always felt Disney was the safest place to do anything. Was just that sense of security i felt whether it was in the resort or the parks on rides etc. obviously nothing is 100% safe Im not saying it is. Im just saying Disney to me was something i never thought twice about when it came to truly not worrying about the outside world when in the bubble and never thought twice about anything. That feeling NO longer exists and to me its bc of some of the recent decisions made by the company regarding plenty of things discussed on these boards.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

im actually more curious on how someone if the story is true can drive a scooter into the building and if they did they truly dont go that fast to cause damage....

Yes, and if they hit the facade that hard, I’m sure the driver would have been shaken up or even injured…no reports of that…

 

[CaptainAmerica]

What circumstances would make this NOT a maintenance issue?

I'll take a sledgehammer to the hood of your car and then shame you for not taking proper care of it.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Yep. Looked it up and it was closed from March through the end of August in 2019, so just 3 years ago. I'm not sure if they did anything to the exterior, but being closed for 6 months should be enough time to work on everything.

If I was forced to make a random guess as to what happened, I'd say the water stains indicate a leak that let rainwater in, which compromised part of whatever was holding the facade in place. The ECV collision (if that's what happened) then caused a significant enough jolt to actually knock something loose because of the water damage.

But that's speculation based on extremely limited information that could be wildly inaccurate; it's basically a shot in the dark.

I think Chappie needs to send a CM out to Home Depot for a few cans of Flex Paste…maybe see what Phil Swift is doing right now??

 

[lazyboy97o]

Isn't it possible that the damage wasn't to the panels specifically but to the structure behind the panels that was damaged by the ECV?

That's what I'm saying, but you would not expect the scale of damage to be caused just by an impact. The primary structure behind the panels is the concrete arch. The furring that connected the panels to the concrete failing across that wide of an area at multiple points is a big reason why the damage is suggestive of a pre-existing issue.

 

[JIMINYCR]

You seal things up to prevent water intrusion because water can cause concealed damage that is not visible until there is a failure. That's the maintenance. Sealant can be visually inspected.

So you expect them to walk to every building and seal and reseal every surface just in case water has gotten in behind the facade. Again if there’s no visible crack or damage you wouldn’t be sealing buildings. If you expect maintenance to be done in that manner you’d have the parks closed down from scaffolding and barriers in front of all the buildings.

 

[JIMINYCR]

But does anyone here (yourself included) actually think that Disney is unsafe? That’s the problem with the framing of this thread: it tries to paint a very rare occurrence as just another example of how Disney has supposedly gone to the dogs. But as I noted above, a crumbling structure (if that’s what even happened in this instance) is very different from a lightbulb that hasn’t been replaced or an animatronic that hasn’t been fixed. Why would any of us be participating in this forum, much less actually going to WDW, if we really believed its structures and attractions to be poorly maintained from a safety perspective? Why are so many in this thread acting as if a doorway spontaneously falling down is somehow characteristic of Disney’s current state as we actually experience it? I wish the discussion could proceed in a less extreme manner.

Thats what we are getting now. The sky is falling mentality. It’s so bad no one should be going. Not only is the value bad, the CMs rude, the shows inferior, the food poor quality, now the guests are in peril when they walk past a building. And 90% of the posters who take that position say they haven’t been back in years or they won’t go back now so you shouldn’t go back. You can’t enjoy it because they aren’t finding enjoyment. Oh and it’s just to make you aware of how bad it is because you can’t figure it out yourself.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So you expect them to walk to every building and seal and reseal every surface just in case water has gotten in behind the facade. Again if there’s no visible crack or damage you wouldn’t be sealing buildings. If you expect maintenance to be done in that manner you’d have the parks closed down from scaffolding and barriers in front of all the buildings.

Your are just wrong. Being water tight is a primary function of a building envelope. You do not wait until there is visible damage to start sealing. The whole point is to prevent water intrusion and the subsequent damage it causes. The sealant should be first installed as part of the initial construction. It should then be periodically checked and if damaged, repaired.

 

[LittleBuford]

And 90% of the posters who take that position say they haven’t been back in years or they won’t go back now so you shouldn’t go back.

My sense is the opposite: that most of those who indulge in such hyperbole continue to visit the parks (thus confirming that it is just hyperbole).

 

[AndyS2992]

Well its been stated by insiders that Space mountain is literally a potential nightmare waiting to happen & if im not mistaken Martin stating way back when he knows CM’s who refuse to ride it… forgive me if im incorrect in stating that. I use to think Disney was infallible when it came to ride safety when it came to the parks that feeling is no longer the case… do i feel unsafe? Definitely not but the feeling i have is basically similar to ones i have when i attend other theme parks…

Having just ridden Space Mountain, it's very rough and needs that new track replacement now. Was supposed to have gotten a huge overhaul like what? over 10 years ago now? They started the process by painting what needed removing and then it didn't happen. They installed extra brakes instead lol

 

[crazy4disney]

Having just ridden Space Mountain, it's very rough and needs that new track replacement now. Was supposed to have gotten a huge overhaul like what? over 10 years ago now? They started the process by painting what needed removing and then it didn't happen. They installed extra brakes instead lol

Trust me i know lol got back 3 weeks ago and by far the bumpiest its ever been… was soooo close to being on it w the lights on too. We rode it went to Peoplemover and lights were in. Took a video of it lol

 

[Goofyernmost]

That's what I'm saying, but you would not expect the scale of damage to be caused just by an impact. The primary structure behind the panels is the concrete arch. The furring that connected the panels to the concrete failing across that wide of an area at multiple points is a big reason why the damage is suggestive of a pre-existing issue.

It would seem to be that if that is what happened that it would be obvious that it is a pre-existing condition. The question is, if that is do we assume that a pre-existing condition is something that we unquestionably should be aware of? People have cancer for years and until it gets serious do not even know it is there. It doesn't matter if it is water (I can't think of any reason why that is the reaction that would result from that) or not enough solid anchoring that caused a failure. It seems to me that the if it was due to construction problems it would have created that condition at the time of construction and no connection to maintenance. If they used the wrong materials or insufficient anchoring it is something that would require someone with x-ray vision to possibly spot. And I believe that Universal has exclusive rights to that guy east of the Mississippi. It hasn't even been established if there was that much initial damage or if the person had come along with a camera after the crew had removed some of the panels and perhaps didn't neatly stack them up.

Thats what we are getting now. The sky is falling mentality. It’s so bad no one should be going. Not only is the value bad, the CMs rude, the shows inferior, the food poor quality, now the guests are in peril when they walk past a building. And 90% of the posters who take that position say they haven’t been back in years or they won’t go back now so you shouldn’t go back. You can’t enjoy it because they aren’t finding enjoyment. Oh and it’s just to make you aware of how bad it is because you can’t figure it out yourself.

I don't think that over 10% of those that "won't go back" are even aware of any random situation such as this much less using that as an excuse for no longer wanting to play in that sandbox.

Your are just wrong. Being water tight is a primary function of a building envelope. You do not wait until there is visible damage to start sealing. The whole point is to prevent water intrusion and the subsequent damage it causes. The sealant should be first installed as part of the initial construction. It should then be periodically checked and if damaged, repaired.

What makes you think that water leakage had anything at all to do with it?

Like i said. I always felt Disney was the safest place to do anything. Was just that sense of security i felt whether it was in the resort or the parks on rides etc. obviously nothing is 100% safe Im not saying it is. Im just saying Disney to me was something i never thought twice about when it came to truly not worrying about the outside world when in the bubble and never thought twice about anything. That feeling NO longer exists and to me its bc of some of the recent decisions made by the company regarding plenty of things discussed on these boards.

I agree, and I wasn't quoting anyone anyway. That said, however, is that you have lost the confidence that nothing bad could ever happen at WDW? Seriously, are you close to not going because a random facade came loose? That's no way to live a life. I have lived to 74 by being cautious of things that had a high level of probability of danger to my well being. Not to the trivial things I am not aware of existing.

I have never done things like swim in hand sanitizer and I occasionally lick my fingers when eating fried chicken. I haven't even had a cold in 5 years. I do have other problems but none that I can blame on outside sources. As a kid I drank out of a garden hose, rode many, many miles in cars that didn't even have any seatbelts, went over the speed limit quite often, and as a kid I used to fall asleep up on the back seat window shelf looking up out the rear window at the stars. Nothing about any random, freak situation, such as discussed here that would ever make me stop living and doing the things I like because things aren't perfectly safe. What's the reason for living if we don't live it. We can be a perfectly superb physical specimen and wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and we are still going to die of something. So why obsess over irrational fears.