Rumor WDW is considering a Universal-like Express Pass

[lentesta]

Minor correction:

The average G+ user was getting on 3.5 rides per day in the first half of 2024.

Of those 3.5 rides, just under 2.5 were ones they really wanted to ride.

So 1 use of G+ was "whatever - it's available, we don't have to wait, and there's air conditioning."

Those numbers were on a downward trend from 2023 prior to the DAS changes and LLMP revamp.

Allegedly.

 

[SingleRider]

This actually existed before (somewhat) in the form of a Genie+ massive glitch.

The entire time Genie+ was in place - if you had a multi experience redemption pass and a regular LL for the same attraction the regular “timed” LL would always be pulled no matter how early you scanned. The light would turn green like normal. Assuming that pass was the most recent one you booked you would immediately be eligible to book another LL. And you could do this once for each attraction the pass was valid for. So you could book and scan and book the next one. Wash, rinse, repeat.

A high tier ride going down late the night before and giving you a multi experience pass for the next day valid on any Genie+ attraction meant you had struck gold for the next day.

They did fix this loophole when Multi-Pass launched in July of this year but that was very nice when it existed. One day I was able to do every attraction LL in HS before lunchtime.

 

[Purduevian]

Minor correction:

The average G+ user was getting on 3.5 rides per day in the first half of 2024.

Of those 3.5 rides, just under 2.5 were ones they really wanted to ride.

So 1 use of G+ was "whatever - it's available, we don't have to wait, and there's air conditioning."

Those numbers were on a downward trend from 2023 prior to the DAS changes and LLMP revamp.

Allegedly.

Sorry to further nitpick, but just curious. 3.5 RIDES or 3.5 ATTRACTIONS?

Thank you for all you do btw!

 

[Touchdown]

They can coexist, but the bigger issue would be cannibalizing the VIP tours. However, that could be (partially) remedied by giving VIP tours instant access to the ride rather than making them wait in the LL queue. That would create 3 distinguishable tiers of paid access, with VIP tours being a true 100% line-skip while LLMP Premier still waits in the LL but without the need for a return time and standard LLMP needs a return time (and therefore no guarantees beyond the 3 pre-selected attractions).

No they can’t, because ever Premier Pass bought takes away 1 spot available to Multipassholders in every line, you quickly drop their use from 3.5 rides a day to 2.5 rides a day and upset those holders. Especially with pre booking you are only allowing one “good” ride and two ok-LL not needed rides.

 

[lentesta]

My lawyer hates unscheduled phone calls, so let's say "attractions" is the closest definition to what I saw.

ETA: I swear to God, if we start calling these "activations", I'm done.

 

[MrPromey]

No they can’t, because ever Premier Pass bought takes away 1 spot available to Multipassholders in every line, you quickly drop their use from 3.5 rides a day to 2.5 rides a day and upset those holders. Especially with pre booking you are only allowing one “good” ride and two ok-LL not needed rides.

Yeah, unfortunately, even with the logic that the multipass represents someone who otherwise would have been a ll and now isn't in that bucket, since their usage would be expected to be significantly higher with the biggest impact felt on the most popular attractions it works on, you'd likely have to lose somewhere between 4-5 ll buyers to make up for every one of these.

And that's not even counting the "any time of day" issue not having scheduled times for these passes could create.

 

[Purduevian]

So... the switch from G+ to LLMP can't have affected the average number too much. We lost capacity in M&Gs and parades, but gained Tiana's (when it works). So, it still has to be around ~3.5 total. So if they were to add this LLPA, that 3.5 number would either need to drop, or the LL to Standby ratio would need to change.

 

[Disstevefan1]

DVC or just cash hotel guests? They could in theory include just cash hotel guests at those 3, but it would devalue the other deluxe resorts pretty dramatically. You also have a large number of DVC owners who would not be happy and Disney wants to sell more DVC so putting DVC owners at a disadvantage hurts those sales. They open a new Polynesian DVC tower and then tell potential buyers you don’t get this extremely valuable perk if you buy in but you can get it if you just stay at the hotel.

I was thinking anyone staying in the big 3, that would include DVCers. DVCers should get the perk too in these three resorts.

My thinking was to limit in some way the "free included with room" and is why I think limiting it too the big 3 monorail resorts. If they did this, I think they would pack these resorts.

We LOVE the free express pass when staying in the select Universal resorts. While I know we are paying high rates for these rooms, it "feels like a value" to get the express pass for "free".

Its fun to discuss but I know Disney wont do it. EVERYONE will pay for it no matter where they stay.

 

[Jrb1979]

Good to hear. Even though we are discussing how this product may work I am not sure I actually want to see it happen. This one may be better as an academic debate.

I would love it to happen. Scrap LLMP and offer this in it's place. It's a much simpler system and a better spontaneous system.

 

[Jrb1979]

So... the switch from G+ to LLMP can't have affected the average number too much. We lost capacity in M&Gs and parades, but gained Tiana's (when it works). So, it still has to be around ~3.5 total. So if they were to add this LLPA, that 3.5 number would either need to drop, or the LL to Standby ratio would need to change.

Seeing that number blows my mind. Mainly cause of the amount of people that are satisfied with only 3.5 skips a day. Paying all that money to get on so few attractions.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

No they can’t, because ever Premier Pass bought takes away 1 spot available to Multipassholders in every line, you quickly drop their use from 3.5 rides a day to 2.5 rides a day and upset those holders. Especially with pre booking you are only allowing one “good” ride and two ok-LL not needed rides.

Anyone buying LLMP gets to pick 3 up front, so the average should never be less than 3. If they do roll out something like this (a big IF at the moment, it seems) then my assumption would be that there would be limitations - a very big upcharge and maybe even limited to Club Level guests similar to the upcharge bonus FP+ offering from years ago but with a much higher cost. Club Level is a terrible deal, so that would possibly help sell more of those rooms with minimal impact to LL availability (which could be offset with a modest increase to the LL:Standby ratio). I still think it is unlikely to happen because I don't see how it wouldn't have a negative impact on VIP Tour sales even if VIP Tours got instant access instead of using the LL queue. From a value perspective when comparing the 2 services, how much is it worth to save a little bit of time in the LL queue and have a guide? For a lot of people, the answer is likely to be "not that much."

 

[GoofGoof]

I would love it to happen. Scrap LLMP and offer this in it's place. It's a much simpler system and a better spontaneous system.

I’d be on board if they scrapped everything and only offered a premium service where less than 10% of guests were using it. I have no faith it would happen that way. Combining LLMP and a premium service will be a disaster.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

So upwards of $300pp per day?
That won’t work

I was thinking $100 or $150

I mean, $100 - $150 would be cheaper than Universal's nearly identical version. You think they're going cheaper than Uni? I think $299 pp per day sounds about right on average days. During the holidays? I'm expecting $399 pp per day to 449 per person per day.

Your $100 - $150 per person is way too cheap. At MK just adding up the cost of the two ILL$ plus genie gets you to more than half of that.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I'll meet you both in the middle - $200pp/day. With no hopping. If they add hopping, figure a 50% tax on that.

$200 per day on days when the MK genie+ option is around $20 per day? (in other words really low demand), sure.

 

[ppete1975]

Years ago I commented on six flags lightning pass (or whatever its called) and remarked how much I preferred fast pass as everyone had an equal opportunity. And that six flags was a cheap amusement park and these tacky add ons were how they made money. And that Disney and fast pass were above that. And Disney would never perpetuate the classism that such things create. You are rich or don't mind debt you get a better experience than the people who scrimped and saved and deserve the exact same experience.

And I loved Disney for its lack of classism (as long as you can afford to get in), and that was what the parks were supposed to be.

LL made me mad as I felt this was a huge step towards making the guests different based on financial abilities.

This is another step in the direction that will probably lead to a six flags, low rent park, money making, cash grab, that I thought Disney was above that eventually will allow you to buy some Diamond pass that allows you to skip all lines on all rides for a stupid amount of money.

I would like to admit that I was wrong.

There is nothing the people in charge will do to try and remove what made the parks different.

I still love Disney, I will still go to Disney... as there is no where on earth that makes me feel like a kid again.

But dam it Disney... do better.

 

[Tha Realest]

As long as there's any LL payment system it only behooves Disney do have pain (longer waits) built into the system because shorter standby waits make paying less appealing.

That, and operational / CM costs also incentivizes replacements over actual capacity expansion.

 

[GoofGoof]

Anyone buying LLMP gets to pick 3 up front, so the average should never be less than 3. If they do roll out something like this (a big IF at the moment, it seems) then my assumption would be that there would be limitations - a very big upcharge and maybe even limited to Club Level guests similar to the upcharge bonus FP+ offering from years ago but with a much higher cost. Club Level is a terrible deal, so that would possibly help sell more of those rooms with minimal impact to LL availability (which could be offset with a modest increase to the LL:Standby ratio). I still think it is unlikely to happen because I don't see how it wouldn't have a negative impact on VIP Tour sales even if VIP Tours got instant access instead of using the LL queue. From a value perspective when comparing the 2 services, how much is it worth to save a little bit of time in the LL queue and have a guide? For a lot of people, the answer is likely to be "not that much."

I know from using the system for 10 days that I could have always gotten more than 3 LLs if I wanted to but I will say that on multiple days we did not use all 3 of our pre-booked rides. In most cases it was because we got to the ride at an earlier time and there was a very low wait so we rode then. At a park like AK one day in particular where it’s common to spend half a day and leave in the afternoon but with early park closing not really practical to return for the evening.

 

[mysto]

I've done a few VIP tours. It's possible for a group of adults to see 15 or 16 attractions across a couple of parks in the 7 hours of a standard tour.

A standard tour can accommodate 10 people. Let's say the hourly rate averages $700 excluding gratuity, so the whole tour costs $4900.

That's $490 per person for LL access to 15 or 16 rides.

A Premier Pass that costs less than $490 per person seems like it would cannibalize VIP tours.

What am I missing here?

I am not interested in touring with 10 people.
I am not interested in touring with a guide.

The new offering is much more attractive to me, even if it costs more per person per day. I am probably the target for this one, and I might throw together a trip if it becomes real. Need to take advantage of it before they take it away.

I'm still really happy that I was able to tour with the club level upcharge allowing 6 fp+ at 90 days before that went away. Good things usually go away.

 

[Touchdown]

I mean, $100 - $150 would be cheaper than Universal's nearly identical version. You think they're going cheaper than Uni? I think $299 pp per day sounds about right on average days. During the holidays? I'm expecting $399 pp per day to 449 per person per day.

Your $100 - $150 per person is way too cheap. At MK just adding up the cost of the two ILL$ plus genie gets you to more than half of that.

But Universal is unlimited, this is one time per ride.

 

[Unbanshee]

But Universal is unlimited, this is one time per ride.

Universal has an unlimited pass, but it also has a one time per ride pass

Universal Orlando

Universal Orlando Resort

www.universalorlando.com