Rumor WDW is considering a Universal-like Express Pass

[Ayla]

Sigh. Can we just go back to standby lines only?

I visited in October of 2021, when it was stand-by lines only. It was one of our best visits. We loved it.

 

[Tha Realest]

All they care about is money now.

The guest experience is not even on the list

They’re desperate for new revenue streams, realizing they’ve reached a saturation/breaking point on their legacy park offerings.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Except the average for LL is under 3 per day due to attraction inventory presented and return times. That throws your idea of how this would work all out of wack when most people aren't even getting 3 attractions out of the current system.

I know that was what Disney marketed for G+, but is that the case for LLMP? I mean you can prebook 3 rides so figure that is the minimum for anyone so the average would be more than that

Anecdotally I used LLMP at DHS and got 7 uses out of it and at MK and got 11 and wasn't really trying hard (didn't do any modifying, refreshing, etc)

 

[MrPromey]

I know that was what Disney marketed for G+, but is that the case for LLMP? I mean you can prebook 3 rides so figure that is the minimum for anyone so the average would be more than that

Anecdotally I used LLMP at DHS and got 7 uses out of it and at MK and got 11 and wasn't really trying hard (didn't do any modifying, refreshing, etc)

I'll defer to @lentesta here who has actual data on this and has confidently stated this multiple times.

 

[Purduevian]

Except the average for LL is under 3 per day due to attraction inventory presented and return times. That throws your idea of how this would work all out of wack when most people aren't even getting 3 attractions out of the current system.

I'm shocked the average LLMP user is under 3 per day, but I guess it is possible. I still think it is technically possible for disney to make a profit and have Standby lines not affected.

 

[MrPromey]

I'm shocked the average LLMP user is under 3 per day, but I guess it is possible. I still think it is technically possible for disney to make a profit and have Standby lines not affected.

Yeah, as a system people are paying additional for, I am too.

But both Steve and Len have reported as much and I have complete faith in their knowledge of such things.

 

[lentesta]

I'll defer to @lentesta here who has actual data on this and has confidently stated this multiple times.

I am exceptionally confident the average number of LLMPs used per guest per day was < 3 as of the first half of 2024.

ETA: It was 3.5, with 2.5 rides the ones the guest really wanted. (See below for more detail.)

 

[Disstevefan1]

Too many deluxe resorts and there’s a bigger problem if you include DVC as well. It works at Universal since there are only 3 resorts. Even the new deluxe resort at Epic is not offering Express Pass right now. That may change.

It would be great if they included it with stays in just the three monorail resorts; GF, Contemporary, Poly.

 

[Purduevian]

I am exceptionally confident the average number of LLMPs used per guest per day was < 3 as of the first half of 2024.

I can't tell if this is a joke because LLMP wasn't around or if you are lumping LLMP and G+ together

 

[Doberge]

As long as there's any LL payment system it only behooves Disney do have pain (longer waits) built into the system because shorter standby waits make paying less appealing. The easiest way to do that is to have a minimum floor using LL, and the easiest way to consistently reach a floor is to price LLMP low enough to attract a target number. (Well, the easiest way thst makes money because the other way, loosening DAS again, does not make money). So it's difficult to see Disney eliminating a low tier system like LLMP, regardless of what is layered on top (like a premier pass).

I thought we were moving toward even higher Genie+/LLMP price but we haven't seen that kind of growth. Maybe partially because it's more elastic than anticipated? Regardless, Disney probably wants to see LL revenue revenue and if they're not going to see it in LLMP then they might as well create a new bucket to attract people with more money to spend. There's probably a sizable market that is okay paying for MMLP but think it's inadequate but also think a VIP tour is out of reach. A program tapping into that market converts some people already paying for LLMP into a higher cost bucket, thus growing LL revenue.

It would need to be priced high enough that people think the price is nuts compared to "working" the lower tier MLLP to an advantage. To be viewed as "VIP-light." Speaking of VIP tours, as they exist now they could see decreased bookings but Disney can choose to differentiate a VIP tour from a premier pass in multiple ways, including forcing attractions to allow VIP tour guests multiple rerides on any attraction.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I am exceptionally confident the average number of LLMPs used per guest per day was < 3 as of the first half of 2024.

That is surprising considering you can prebook 3 so people aren't even using their prebooked ones and to such a degree it overcompensates for the people getting way more than that? (Like we got 7 and 11 the two days we used it)

Or are you including G+ in that?

 

[Touchdown]

let's play a game.. assuming this happens... what do you think the price will be per park?

$5-$40 per ride depending on the ride (teacups $5, Rise $30-40)

1-2.5x admission per person for Premier Pass 1 park

2x the cost of the MK for all park Premier Pass

The Premier Park Pass price is based on what it costs at parks around the country for a one time Fastpass per ride.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They just redid the system…

I got the sense from BlogMickey's article that an Express Pass would be an overlay to the current system, not a replacement.

If DAS was truly being exploited by a significant number of people, then the new restrictions meant to reduce overloading LL with DAS would free up space for more LLs, or.... an extra Express Pass system.

And like ILL or Uni's Express Pass, they would likely sell a limited number of them.

 

[lentesta]

I can't tell if this is a joke because LLMP wasn't around or if you are lumping LLMP and G+ together

Oh, sorry. I'm using LLMP to mean the same as "Genie+ not counting Individual Lightning Lane".

So Genie+ usage in the first half of 2024 was less than 3 per guest per day.

ETA: See my correction below - it was 3.5 per day, 2.5 of which the guest really wanted.

 

[Touchdown]

I got the sense from BlogMickey's article that an Express Pass would be an overlay to the current system, not a replacement.

If DAS was truly being exploited by a significant number of people, then the new restrictions meant to reduce overloading LL with DAS would free up space for more LLs, or.... an extra Express Pass system.

And like ILL or Uni's Express Pass, they would likely sell a limited number of them.

It cannot exist with multi use, Premier guests are going to expect to walk on (<10 min) for the price they pay for it. Multi use guests will expect to multi use their pass.

You cannot satisfy both groups, it’s impossible.

 

[Purduevian]

Oh, sorry. I'm using LLMP to mean the same as "Genie+ not counting Individual Lightning Lane".

So Genie+ usage in the first half of 2024 was less than 3 per guest per day.

Wow, I'm kinda shocked. I know some people were getting 10+ LLs, but I'm shocked there were enough people getting 1-2 to offset them enough. I kind of figured 3-4 was the average, but had no data to back that up.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It cannot exist with multi use, Premier guests are going to expect to walk on (<10 min) for the price they pay for it. Multi use guests will expect to multi use their pass.

You cannot satisfy both groups, it’s impossible.

They can coexist, but the bigger issue would be cannibalizing the VIP tours. However, that could be (partially) remedied by giving VIP tours instant access to the ride rather than making them wait in the LL queue. That would create 3 distinguishable tiers of paid access, with VIP tours being a true 100% line-skip while LLMP Premier still waits in the LL but without the need for a return time and standard LLMP needs a return time (and therefore no guarantees beyond the 3 pre-selected attractions).

 

[GoofGoof]

It would be great if they included it with stays in just the three monorail resorts; GF, Contemporary, Poly.

DVC or just cash hotel guests? They could in theory include just cash hotel guests at those 3, but it would devalue the other deluxe resorts pretty dramatically. You also have a large number of DVC owners who would not be happy and Disney wants to sell more DVC so putting DVC owners at a disadvantage hurts those sales. They open a new Polynesian DVC tower and then tell potential buyers you don’t get this extremely valuable perk if you buy in but you can get it if you just stay at the hotel.

 

[GoofGoof]

It cannot exist with multi use, Premier guests are going to expect to walk on (<10 min) for the price they pay for it. Multi use guests will expect to multi use their pass.

You cannot satisfy both groups, it’s impossible.

I agree with this unless the premier product is priced so high it has very limited sales and then it’s just basically a VIP tour without the tour guide.

 

[Ayla]

That is surprising considering you can prebook 3 so people aren't even using their prebooked ones and to such a degree it overcompensates for the people getting way more than that? (Like we got 7 and 11 the two days we used it)

Or are you including G+ in that?

The pre-books just started, it wasn't that way in the time period Len is referring to.