WDW Awakens ...

[GoofGoof]

You hit the nail on the head here. Disney certainly does play the biggest part in it all, but the once in a lifetime tourist are almost exclusively a WDW thing. If it wasn't for them, I think that TDO would be run almost identically to TDA. While the price hikes and expense cutting is also happening at TDA, many of DLR's flaws as a product are less glaring because of the more relaxed nature of its more frequent attendees. This can also be very dangerous, however, since it creates a more casual audience that can sometimes take what makes the parks great for granted. I think this is why some DLR frequentees seem to have a more positive reaction to DL's SWL than most of us on the WDW forums. You've seen this for decades with examples like WDW's Mr. Toad getting a lot more backlash press than DL's original Subs despite closing on the same day. In short, distance creates frantic trips for some, but a fan base that doesn't normally take it for granted, while closeness creates more relaxed trips, but an audience demographic that can sometimes take it for granted.

TDA had a down period in the recent past too. The very vocal DLR locals crowd was able to help encourage management to change. I'm worried that you may be right about the less frequent visitors at WDW. We all talk about the issues, but if a large chunk of their guests just don't see them or complain about them it adds to the problem. For having a bunch of the same rides and attractions the 2 parks are run very differently.

 

[UncleMike101]

I feel this is more a partial misconception and why I made my post. Its less "Customer be damned" and more "Loyal customers be damned and entitled once in a lifetime d-bags be rewarded".

I guess I believe that loyal customers and newbies should get the same experiences.
If the newbies like it they will become repeaters.
If not they can stay away.
If the loyal customers don't get the experience that they have come to expect they will not return.
In either case dissatisfied customers lead to business losses.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

I'm becoming convinced that the top Management (The Igerites) aren't interested in running amusement parks as much as they are making movies and overseeing sports venues.

While there's some truth in that, I would argue that less about the personal interests of the Igerites and more about profitability. Remember, they don't value any form of creativity, only the money they receive from it. And its much easier to profit off initial investment than something that operates every day. Also, Shanghai is Iger's legacy and just about the biggest thing in company right now. What makes Shanghai different from the other Magic Kingdoms in their current state, however, is that it is designed with less creativity and more IP profiting in mind. TWDC under Iger at its core has become a Viacom like entertainment company and the parks are certainly a great place to profit off its now numerous entertainment brands. Its why they haven't sold them to a company like OLC and from our perspective, that is a loss.

 

[Mike S]

True. Iger hasn't shown any love for the parks over his tenure. He's added things but he hasn't shown any real vision in that area. He just sees P&R as a giant ATM machine.

 

[ANJ]

If I may chime in at the risk of Dave calling me a troll. The problem is Disney has made CM cuts as well as other cuts. The discussion as far as mousekeeping is concerned could be alleviated with more mousekeepers. Same with cleanliness around the park in general. Same with maintenance, its common Knowledge that Disney has cut maintenance crews to a minimum. They simply cant keep up the maintenance that Disney was once known for. I seen a phrase here ( sorry I cant remember and give due justice ) "industry standard" So many people compare WDW to other places we visit. Theaters, ball parks etc. But Disney always set themselves above such places. So now the bar is set at "industry standards". What a shame.

 

[GoofGoof]

If I may chime in at the risk of Dave calling me a troll. The problem is Disney has made CM cuts as well as other cuts. The discussion as far as mousekeeping is concerned could be alleviated with more mousekeepers. Same with cleanliness around the park in general. Same with maintenance, its common Knowledge that Disney has cut maintenance crews to a minimum. They simply cant keep up the maintenance that Disney was once known for. I seen a phrase here ( sorry I cant remember and give due justice ) "industry standard" So many people compare WDW to other places we visit. Theaters, ball parks etc. But Disney always set themselves above such places. So now the bar is set at "industry standards". What a shame.

Cost cutting is a problem, but I think from the conversation it seems like it's also an issue with inefficient operations. If management found better ways to empower employees and had a better set of procedures in place it may be possible to do more with less. Throwing more bodies at the tasks would also help, but it may not be the smartest or cheapest way to address the problems.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

One thing I learned as an Finance Director when trying to make budgets, cut costs, improve service delivery etc. was "The people closest to the work have the best information" and "listen to the people who work directly with the customer" and "Management by walking around" and "open door policy" and "continuous quality improvement" and the list goes on. What happened to the corporate culture of the 90's? It was required reading Once Upon A Time.

 

[Kman101]

Wouldn't 45 minutes probably be enough time? (I have no clue, but 30 minutes really doesn't seem like it's long enough if something else requires attention). That gives an extra 15 minutes of flexibility. I mean, and if something is trashed why can't a special concession be made? It sounds like it's just run so bad. They try to be efficient and streamline everything by having the computer control everything when in reality it's far from efficient.

I remember when I did scheduling for a big box store, they wanted the computer to come up with the shifts and you would have to "tweak" it all the while following a ridiculous graph that you had to meet. It really wasn't the best method for staffing at all.

 

[Mike S]

Wouldn't 45 minutes probably be enough time? (I have no clue, but 30 minutes really doesn't seem like it's long enough if something else requires attention). That gives an extra 15 minutes of flexibility. I mean, and if something is trashed why can't a special concession be made? It sounds like it's just run so bad. They try to be efficient and streamline everything by having the computer control everything when in reality it's far from efficient.

I remember when I did scheduling for a big box store, they wanted the computer to come up with the shifts and you would have to "tweak" it all the while following a ridiculous graph that you had to meet. It really wasn't the best method for staffing at all.

Disney just loves using Intellilink.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

True. Iger hasn't shown any love for the parks over his tenure. He's added things but he hasn't shown any real vision in that area. He just sees P&R as a giant ATM machine.

I'm pretty sure he sees every entertainment venture and medium as a giant ATM machine.

 

[Nubs70]

Just playing devils advocate a little, but if they did spend twice as long to clean the rooms it would mean rooms being ready later in the day, maybe past the checkin time. People get incredibly irritated if their room isn't ready on time. I'm not saying that they should leave rooms dirty, but there needs to be a little more organized of a system than just take as long as needed. We are talking about 750+ rooms minimum at the deluxe resorts which isn't really comparable to a small b&b with a handful of rooms (except in price).

I do think you need some sort of system to ensure that rooms are all cleaned properly AND on time. A generic platform of a flat 30 mins per room seems impracticle to me. A lot of the issue comes down to the system in place being too rigid. They need to empower employees (even at lower levels) to have the ability to override the system when common sense and logic dictates it. I assume that the majority of rooms probably can be cleaned in a set period of time. I'm no expert on room cleaning, so I can't say if 30 minutes is reasonable or not but you need to come up with a good average and start there. Then build in some time for the unexpected. That extra cushion is key to the whole system working. If you staff your housekeepers properly you should be able to get your expected results close to 100% of the time. With the hotels operating at 90%+ full they don't have a lot of room for error.

I'm sure management has the numbers and research to prove their position. The numbers support the position that the "average" room that X minutes on "average" to clean, therefore, it should only take X minutes to clean each room. Problem is that no room is average. This same methodology is beginning to infiltrate healthcare.

 

[Nubs70]

That's not at all how it works.

 

[CircusPeanuts]

I'd really like to hear how it works. If the grim picture @ford91exploder paints isn't true then how does the system work? @peter11435,these discussions do tend to be a little one sided and negative so I'd really like to hear the other side if there is one.

I had to create an account to explain how @ford91exploder is wrong about Custodial in the parks when he said "You mean like they used to before the computerized dispatch which allows them X minutes to service a restroom if they exceed that time they are automatically dinged by the system."

There is no such system at all. There is CDS which almost all operational areas in the parks, waterparks and Disney Springs (and to a lesser extent, the resorts) use to clock in/out and get breaks and position assignments. It in no way knows how long you are cleaning a restroom.

All areas are a little different, but generally the CM would clock in and either know which area they were working due to a hard bid (i.e. Main Street North restrooms or Fantasyland streets) or they would get an assignment in CDS for their position (i.e. - City Hall Female Restroom or Trash Zone 1 for Sunset Boulevard) they then would do that position continuously until they were relieved by another CM for break. During busy times and for busy restrooms there might be a CM assigned to ONE RR for the entire shift. If it is a slower RR or a slower period of the year they might check on two RR continuously.

Just like all areas there are good and bad cast members, cast members that hide in the closet when they should be cleaning their RR and those that work twice as hard as anyone else. Like the other person said in another comment, if someone just put a sign next to a spill instead of cleaning it up, that would result in discipline if they were caught. Unfortunately in todays world, people rarely take the time to ask to speak to a leader to bring things like that to their attention. If they happen to stumble upon it, great, but when you are the one custodial leader for ALL of future world or ALL of Disney Springs, things may occasionally get missed.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm sure management has the numbers and research to prove their position. The numbers support the position that the "average" room that X minutes on "average" to clean, therefore, it should only take X minutes to clean each room. Problem is that no room is average. This same methodology is beginning to infiltrate healthcare.

Not only that, even if the room is average... by definition... unless there is no deviation at all... the room is going to take longer than the average to clean at times

 

[ford91exploder]

Just playing devils advocate a little, but if they did spend twice as long to clean the rooms it would mean rooms being ready later in the day, maybe past the checkin time. People get incredibly irritated if their room isn't ready on time. I'm not saying that they should leave rooms dirty, but there needs to be a little more organized of a system than just take as long as needed. We are talking about 750+ rooms minimum at the deluxe resorts which isn't really comparable to a small b&b with a handful of rooms (except in price).

I do think you need some sort of system to ensure that rooms are all cleaned properly AND on time. A generic platform of a flat 30 mins per room seems impracticle to me. A lot of the issue comes down to the system in place being too rigid. They need to empower employees (even at lower levels) to have the ability to override the system when common sense and logic dictates it. I assume that the majority of rooms probably can be cleaned in a set period of time. I'm no expert on room cleaning, so I can't say if 30 minutes is reasonable or not but you need to come up with a good average and start there. Then build in some time for the unexpected. That extra cushion is key to the whole system working. If you staff your housekeepers properly you should be able to get your expected results close to 100% of the time. With the hotels operating at 90%+ full they don't have a lot of room for error.

Even with the 30 minute limit rooms are late recently, As @flynnibus notes Disney does not trust their employees any longer it's why GR cannot 'make things right' basically WDW is being run on a excel spreadsheet in Burbank, The problem at Disney is they have cut all the operating units to bare minimums so there is no extra cushion to ensure the 'machine' works because that cushion which as known as a clearance in mechanical engineering and which ensures the machine can move is seen by the Burbank Brigade as 'inefficiency' as they expect their 'machine' to operate at 100% efficiency 100% of the time.

 

[peter11435]

Custodial cast members are dispatched by computer. But so are most cast members in the parks. That cast member driving your great movie ride vehicle and the cast member dispatching your space mountain rocket were also dispatched by a computer. And just like there is always someone there to send your rocket there is always someone responsible for that restroom.

The system does not tell cast member A to go clean restroom 1 for 15 minutes and then leave it unattended until it decides to send another cast member. Instead the system instructs cast member A to go attend to restroom 1 and that will be their responsibility until the system instructs another cast member to relieve them. There is always someone responsible for the conditions of the restroom. And since it is dispatched via computer it is well documented exactly who was responsible for each facility and when. Therefore good management can easily hold the right person accountable for the conditions of that facility.

The problem with this system has nothing to do with the computerized dispatch. The problem is that management will often have it set so that one cast member is responsible for more than one restroom. Cast member A being instructed to attend to restrooms A and B. But that problem could have and did exist before computerized dispatching.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not only that, even if the room is average... by definition... unless there is no deviation at all... the room is going to take longer than the average to clean at times

Once again the dangers of MBA's using statistics when they do not understand the underlying systems. Statistics are a powerful tool but only provide good data when you know what the underlying data represents.

If you are interested in data representation I recommend the work of Edward Tufte especially 'The Visual Display of Quantitative Information' and his explanation of the classic graphic of Napoleon's March on Russia

 

[Kman101]

I'm glad we received some clarification on the process! Thank you @CircusPeanuts and @peter11435

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Will someone page me when the discussion turns back to Spirited news and not bathroom operations?

 

[ford91exploder]

Custodial cast members are dispatched by computer. But so are most cast members in the parks. That cast member driving your great movie ride vehicle and the cast member dispatching your space mountain rocket were also dispatched by a computer. And just like there is always someone there to send your rocket there is always someone responsible for that restroom.

The system does not tell cast member A to go clean restroom 1 for 15 minutes and then leave it unattended until it decides to send another cast member. Instead the system instructs cast member A to go attend to restroom 1 and that will be their responsibility until the system instructs another cast member to relieve them. There is always someone responsible for the conditions of the restroom. And since it is dispatched via computer it is well documented exactly who was responsible for each facility and when. Therefore good management can easily hold the right person accountable for the conditions of that facility.

The problem with this system has nothing to do with the computerized dispatch. The problem is that management will often have it set so that one cast member is responsible for more than one restroom. Cast member A being instructed to attend to restrooms A and B. But that problem could have and did exist before computerized dispatching.

So we are not to trust our lying eyes when the floor is covered by water and the thing there is a sign, I guess Disney has perfected the invisibility cloak so we can't see the invisible CM with their invisible mop.

As to CDS'es they ALL share a 'time to resolve' clock back in a prior life where I managed network operations I would put tickets in REMEDY for the NOC staff to handle, Of course there were always a few that required vendor resolution and would stretch out over weeks and months and the IT committee would give my team crap for 'not resolving this ticket in a timely manner' To which I would reply this is a vendor fix and there is nothing my team can do until vendor releases patch you will see this ticket at next week's meeting too.

So what's probably happening is CM has been assigned far too much stuff to do so they go and do 'something' so they can check off 'Location X' serviced the CDS is happy by extension Mgmt is happy. And this happens because the Custodial managers never actually LOWER themselves to visit the park and see what they are supposed to be managing