News Walt Disney World's COVID-19 reopening plans announced - July 11

CastAStone

CastAStone

5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
MisterPenguin said:
Swolphin normally has two prices: a cheap one which requires full payment and is non-refundable, and a more expensive price which allows a refund. Swolphin is really cheap right now because it's the summer (super hot and muggy) and all the conventions are canceled. Their prices pick back up again this Fall.

It's a good price to jump on if you know that this isn't going to be a 'do everything' trip and more of a casual walk-around and hit up a few rides in the morning and evening and nap/pool mid-day. The Swolphin is a great resort to relax in and for quick access to getting in and out of EP and DHS at will. If you're all about getting on all the rides... lower one's expectations.
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The refundable rates are requiring huge prepayments right now, see photos:

Prepay:
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Refundable:

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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
donsullivan said:
Unfortunately, he just said that they do not intend to actively enforce this, and there are no penalties for non-compliance. As a result, the same people who refuse to wear them now will continue to refuse to wear them. Without a penalty they’ll just ignore it.
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It is not enforceable from the standpoint of any kind of criminal penalty. You can only enforce laws. Executive orders are not laws. They are supposed to be for the exercise of powers granted to the mayor/Governor/President by an existing law. The executive giving the order doesn't have carte blanche to order whatever they feel like, even if it is in the best interest of the citizens.

Even to kick people out of a business for not wearing one, they would need consent and request of the owner. Police need probable cause (well, at least they are supposed to) to enter without permission. Suspicion of somebody violating a mayor's executive order is not valid probable cause for anything.

The other issue with these face covering requirements is that there is no real standard for an effective face covering. Somebody could make one out of a really thin, light breathable fabric that pretty much defeats the entire purpose just to be in compliance. This goes for people at WDW also. Like those fishing sunblock coverings (whatever they are called). They are designed to block UV, not respiratory droplets. Do they even do anything for this?
 
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MrHappy

MrHappy

Well-Known Member
mickeymiss said:
Wasn't T-Rex later to open presumably due to being extra cautious? I'm truly baffled that they would cover up a positive case and let the person work. And not even clean. It seems a bit unbelievable tbh. A small BBQ chain in my state had one confirmed case in a worker who hadn't even been there in a week and they closed to clean.

I'm getting a little overwhelmed by the politics of covid and everything else. The media had been so harsh on Florida all along despite NYC being the biggest mess of all and I don't know what to think anymore. I can't imagine closing the country again. If covid is here to stay, we need to learn how to cope with it. We need targeted strategies to protect the most vulnerable and basic common sense for the rest of us. Part of me wishes I had immunity somehow. Not gonna lie. This is so exhausting and stressful.
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New York is the biggest mess? Um. You might want to Google that.
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
DisneyCane said:
It is not enforceable from the standpoint of any kind of criminal penalty. You can only enforce laws. Executive orders are not laws. They are supposed to be for the exercise of powers granted to the mayor/Governor/President by an existing law. The executive giving the order doesn't have carte blanche to order whatever they feel like, even if it is in the best interest of the citizens.
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Most states have 'law laws' from their legislative branch that give the executive branch (the governor and state agencies) the power to create administrative laws as you said. So, for example, the state legislature doesn't determine what the speed limit will be for every road in the state, but it gives the executive's department of transportation the authority to make those determinations. And it is enforced by the police and judicial branch and you can be fined and/or imprisoned for breaking a merely administrative determination of a speed limit for a particular road.

And most states give the executive branch the authority to come up with all sorts of ad hoc rulings during times of emergencies including health emergencies. In NJ, after weeks of warnings, citizens were getting citations for breaking the rules the governor made. Citations from the police. Businesses that opened when they weren't supposed to were getting citations. Courts were ordering them to close based on the governor's rules, and not any from the legislature, except for the fact the legislature gave NJ governors the powers to come up with such administrative laws for emergencies long ago.

Yes, governors just can't make up anything they dream of on a capricious whim. But when there's an emergency, they have the power to make up laws regarding that emergency as given them previously by the legislature. Administrative decrees based on emergency power laws are given deference by judges unless it's a very clear overreach.

So... yeah. Not following your governor's emergency directives can be criminal and lead to fines/imprisonment.

You're welcome to test it the next time your local administrative official declares a curfew in response to an emergency and you just stay out as long as you like. You can explain to the judge that that wasn't a real law because the time of that curfew wasn't passed by your local council or legislature. See how that goes.
 
mickeymiss

mickeymiss

Well-Known Member
MrHappy said:
New York is the biggest mess? Um. You might want to Google that.
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I don't want to derail the thread. I was just feeling like Florida has been getting picked on as the "worst" with nowhere near the fatality rate of NY, NJ, etc. Time will tell but the surge in FL could be from protests and/or a natural jump from being open in general. All states will encounter that when they open which most are about to. California is having a similar spike and they aren't as open as FL. I don't get the Florida hate personally.

Carry on...✌👍
 
Horizons '83

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Mainahman

Mainahman

Well-Known Member
mickeymiss said:
I feel like an outsider because I'm not bothered too much without having fireworks, parades, tours, etc. We never do that stuff. We have our hands full getting around the park lol.
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Its like we are the same person. We parade dodge, and sometime firework dodge to get attractions. My nephew was disappointed that we lost the MNSSHP, but really wants to ride em all, so were still in! I just want to eat the foods!
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
Most states have 'law laws' from their legislative branch that give the executive branch (the governor and state agencies) the power to create administrative laws as you said. So, for example, the state legislature doesn't determine what the speed limit will be for every road in the state, but it gives the executive's department of transportation the authority to make those determinations. And it is enforced by the police and judicial branch and you can be fined and/or imprisoned for breaking a merely administrative determination of a speed limit for a particular road.

And most states give the executive branch the authority to come up with all sorts of ad hoc rulings during times of emergencies including health emergencies. In NJ, after weeks of warnings, citizens were getting citations for breaking the rules the governor made. Citations from the police. Businesses that opened when they weren't supposed to were getting citations. Courts were ordering them to close based on the governor's rules, and not any from the legislature, except for the fact the legislature gave NJ governors the powers to come up with such administrative laws for emergencies long ago.

Yes, governors just can't make up anything they dream of on a capricious whim. But when there's an emergency, they have the power to make up laws regarding that emergency as given them previously by the legislature. Administrative decrees based on emergency power laws are given deference by judges unless it's a very clear overreach.

So... yeah. Not following your governor's emergency directives can be criminal and lead to fines/imprisonment.

You're welcome to test it the next time your local administrative official declares a curfew in response to an emergency and you just stay out as long as you like. You can explain to the judge that that wasn't a real law because the time of that curfew wasn't passed by your local council or legislature. See how that goes.
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Curfews (at least in Florida) can be legal enforceable under provisions of the Florida Statutes. There is a whole section titled "AFFRAYS; RIOTS; ROUTS; UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLIES " which gives the local government certain powers that are considered a misdemeanor if violated.

I have not been able to find a single reference to masks (well, in a health context) or facial coverings anywhere in the statutes. As an aside, the reason that I do not believe there was legal justification (at least specifically in Florida) for the stay at home orders are these two definitions in the Florida Statutes:

(a) “Isolation” means the separation of an individual who is reasonably believed to be infected with a communicable disease from individuals who are not infected, to prevent the possible spread of the disease.

(d) “Quarantine” means the separation of an individual reasonably believed to have been exposed to a communicable disease, but who is not yet ill, from individuals who have not been so exposed, to prevent the possible spread of the disease.
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It is not, from a legal perspective, reasonable to believe that somebody that doesn't show any symptoms or wasn't found to be in close contact with an infected person is either infected or exposed.

The business restrictions are far more complex legally but blanket orders (like were done here in Broward) that you are not allowed off of your property except for specific "essential" reasons are 100% not legal per the Florida statutes. They never tried to actually enforce it as far as I am aware.
 
Miss Bella

Miss Bella

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
Swolphin normally has two prices for the same room: a cheap one which requires full payment and is non-refundable, and a more expensive price which allows a refund. Swolphin is really cheap right now because it's the summer (super hot and muggy) and all the conventions are canceled. Their prices pick back up again this Fall.

It's a good price to jump on if you know that this isn't going to be a 'do everything' trip and more of a casual walk-around and hit up a few rides in the morning and evening and nap/pool mid-day. The Swolphin is a great resort to relax in and for quick access to getting in and out of EP and DHS at will. If you're all about getting on all the rides... lower one's expectations.

And don't forget to include the hefty daily resort fee. And parking if you bring a car (which is ideal if you want to go to DAK and MK and want to avoid the COVIDy buses in the heat of the Summer).,
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It's not the non-refundable rate. All rates are saying pay in full. Weird I'm going to call them.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
mickeymiss said:
I don't want to derail the thread. I was just feeling like Florida has been getting picked on as the "worst" with nowhere near the fatality rate of NY, NJ, etc. Time will tell but the surge in FL could be from protests and/or a natural jump from being open in general. All states will encounter that when they open which most are about to. California is having a similar spike and they aren't as open as FL. I don't get the Florida hate personally.

Carry on...✌👍
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It’s not hate its just facts. Back in March and April when the epicenter of the virus was NY/NJ/CT there was a ton of media coverage on that. The mayor of NYC took a lot of heat for waiting too long to shut down schools and shut down the subways. It’s all based on facts. FL even went as far as implementing a travel ban on those states (talk about being “picked on”). Things are looking much better in the Northeast now. That’s not the case in TX or FL or CA. Those are large states with an uptick in cases. FL in particular gets a lot of focus due to the fact that this is a WDW site. Less people here care about a surge in cases in Utah.

All states are in some phase of reopening. Some are seeing an uptick in cases and some are not. So far the states like FL that opened vey fast and with few statewide restrictions are seeing a larger upticks in cases. In PA where I live we are also re-opening but at a slower pace with more social distancing and mandatory mask rules. It seems to be working so far as businesses are opening and cases are still dropping. In cities like Philadelphia we have seen large protest rallies and still no uptick in cases. I do think that people going to protests without masks is a problem and will eventually result in an uptick in cases...same as people going to a bar or a water park and doing the same thing. So what you are seeing as FL hate is just people who are critical of the way the re-opening was handled. At least at the local level the mayor of Orange County has stepped up to do something.
 

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