Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[MisterPenguin]

I see it as more of a function of Disney not keeping up with adding new attractions (and ride capacity) as the crowds grew. They purposefully chose to try and maximize every ride slot on every attraction (through FP+) instead of adding new things to keep up. Yes, I know they have started adding new things (finally). But they have a lot of lost ground to make up for. And in many cases they have closed things so are merely replacing things.

Indeed. And, IMO, the best solution is to put all future new rides in all the parks except MK. They all have capacity to spare, but they each have around 9 rides while MK has 27. They'll never be able to pull from MK until their number of family-friendly rides increase.

 

[nickys]

Reasonably sure this week's My Disney Experience app update (and you saw how well that went!) had some infrastructure pieces for the next version of FP. If I knew anything beyond that right now, I would've been sworn to secrecy.

Thanks for that Len.

So for those who haven’t read about or experienced this yet, they have been “restricting” refreshing for FPs.

Basically although it was showing times available, when people selected a time they either got a “sorry, that is no longer available” message, or got given a different time an hour or two after the selected time.

 

[kpilcher]

I'm not sure what point is being made in the context that the tickets were a pay-to-play system.

What role does an entrance fee, whether it's small or large or none at all, have to affect that pay-to-play model?

The point is: when Walt implemented his “Pay to play” model, admission was nominal. The entry fee’s role was for grounds keeping and the like. Parking explicitly paid for the lot upkeep and the attendants. It made sense to the guest (I.e. in context to that system) why each attraction cost a little extra. Disney was profitable enough that Walt could finally quit (literally) mortgaging the ranch, and lucrative enough where buying up 27,000 acres of swamp in the middle of nowhere was genius.

When A-E was replaced with Day/Multi-day/Annual passes, Disney made a purposeful paradigm shift away from “pay to play.” In context, the guest was told that pass paid for virtually everything. Level playing field. Guest expectations weren’t just met, they were exceeded. Disney was even more profitable.

Today’s entry fees are industry-leading, leading to record-breaking profits nearly every quarter. I absolutely want Disney to thrive. I am all for profit, but at these admission prices, there’s no fair context for additional “pay to play” that favors one guest over another.

 

[kpilcher]

But then, crowds started to overcrowd the parks with such a generous deal. So the price kept going up. Overcrowding continued. FP tried to move crowds around. Overcrowding continued. Surge pricing was introduced to move crowds around. Overcrowding continued.

You know what sucks up crowds? Adding attractions. People-eaters preferred. Magic Kingdom has far fewer attractions than Disneyland. It needs 5 more yesterday.

FastPass wasn’t aimed at solving overcrowding but to get people to spend more. It helped cause overcrowding.

FP+/MM+ did spend gobs of money trying to move crowds around hoping it would decrease the need for more attractions. Didn’t work as intended. New attractions are being built.

Disney claims surge prices are to ease overcrowding. I’m sure it is to some extent. But most American families have little flexibility in their vacation dates. They are tied to school schedules. Also: if your dream is to spend a family Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, etc. at Disney, the week before is not the same. You’ll pay more and profit is a by-product Disney has learned to live with.

Edit: I just want to reiterate: that doesnt mean I think Disney’s current strategy Is just “being evil.”

 

[Lensman]

The point is: when Walt implemented his “Pay to play” model, admission was nominal. The entry fee’s role was for grounds keeping and the like. Parking explicitly paid for the lot upkeep and the attendants. It made sense to the guest (I.e. in context to that system) why each attraction cost a little extra. Disney was profitable enough that Walt could finally quit (literally) mortgaging the ranch, and lucrative enough where buying up 27,000 acres of swamp in the middle of nowhere was genius.

When A-E was replaced with Day/Multi-day/Annual passes, Disney made a purposeful paradigm shift away from “pay to play.” In context, the guest was told that pass paid for virtually everything. Level playing field. Guest expectations weren’t just met, they were exceeded. Disney was even more profitable.

Today’s entry fees are industry-leading, leading to record-breaking profits nearly every quarter. I absolutely want Disney to thrive. I am all for profit, but at these admission prices, there’s no fair context for additional “pay to play” that favors one guest over another.

Would you be happy with a paid FastPass system if admission fees were lowered to compensate?

If so, let's run through some examples to try to quantify your feelings of fairness:

1. For this discussion, let's baseline a single day's admission as $130.
2. Let's also say that there's going to be an additional package of 3 FastPasses sold for $50.
3. Let's say that 10% of park guests are expected to buy this package.
4. Your feelings of fairness require that Disney keeps it's revenue constant under this new plan.
5. The actual number of admissions isn't entirely relevant, but helps us do the math. Let's assume 50,000 admissions. Under the old system that's $6.5 million in revenue.
6. Under the new paid FastPass scenario, 5,000 people buying the paid FastPass package. That's an additional $250,000 in revenue. In order to remain revenue neutral, Disney would have to lower park admission fees to $125.

Would you consider this fair pay-to-play? Or is there some other requirement Disney needs to fulfill in order to satisfy your fairness criteria? Looking to elucidate and make explicit your position in order to understand what you think are the major issues fully.

Note: Under the old E-Ticket system, the general admission was pretty skimpy in that it didn't allow you onto any attractions. Under the future paid FastPass system, general admission will still include unlimited rides on the PeopleMover and most A-C attractions, really, as well as 3-6 D's and 2 E's. You're just paying for additional E tickets. These numbers are just made up, I'm not sure it's worth refining them but you get the idea, surely. The other major difference is that you're still allowed to go on additional E's for free as long as you're willing to wait in the long standby lines.

 

[Indy_UK]

Fast pass just doesn’t work in WDW, it needs to go back to the older paper way and introduce Max Pass or the free passes go altogether and it’s made into a paid service like in Paris.

While much smaller scale, charging €100 for fast pass makes almost everyone uses the standby line and helps the lines move much faster.

I think taking away free passes here will benefit everyone and make it fair game

 

[Patcheslee]

Fast pass just doesn’t work in WDW, it needs to go back to the older paper way and introduce Max Pass or the free passes go altogether and it’s made into a paid service like in Paris.

While much smaller scale, charging €100 for fast pass makes almost everyone uses the standby line and helps the lines move much faster.

I think taking away free passes here will benefit everyone and make it fair game

Then Disney has the issue of less "on-site benefits" to market. From someone who is only planning our 2nd trip, having 3 a day preaty well guaranteed is better than trying to get non morning ppl up to get paper or Max Pass tickets. Some ppl weigh theme park perks/add ons as risk vs reward. Every version has pros and cons depending on the guest.

 

[monothingie]

Thanks for that Len.

So for those who haven’t read about or experienced this yet, they have been “restricting” refreshing for FPs.

Basically although it was showing times available, when people selected a time they either got a “sorry, that is no longer available” message, or got given a different time an hour or two after the selected time.

Wasn’t this resolved?

 

[mikejs78]

Thanks for that Len.

So for those who haven’t read about or experienced this yet, they have been “restricting” refreshing for FPs.

Basically although it was showing times available, when people selected a time they either got a “sorry, that is no longer available” message, or got given a different time an hour or two after the selected time.

Was this just a bug, or is this the norm now?

 

[LuvWDW2]

Wasn’t this resolved?

Yes after about a day.

But I believe Len is alluding that it wasn’t a glitch

 

[mikejs78]

Fast pass just doesn’t work in WDW, it needs to go back to the older paper way and introduce Max Pass or the free passes go altogether and it’s made into a paid service like in Paris.

While much smaller scale, charging €100 for fast pass makes almost everyone uses the standby line and helps the lines move much faster.

I think taking away free passes here will benefit everyone and make it fair game

Hope they don't. FP makes going to the parks manegable for my family.

 

[marni1971]

Hope they don't. FP makes going to the parks manegable for my family.

Free FP will still be around in some form. But it may not be as available as it is today or for every attraction.

 

[lentesta]

Thanks for that Len.

So for those who haven’t read about or experienced this yet, they have been “restricting” refreshing for FPs.

Basically although it was showing times available, when people selected a time they either got a “sorry, that is no longer available” message, or got given a different time an hour or two after the selected time.

I think the 'refresh' functionality is back. When it was briefly unavailable, it was most likely a glitch.

The thing I'm referring to is having more 'tiers' or 'categories' in which to segment rides. The first visible evidence of this should be seen when a FP ride goes offline and MDE has to issue "anytime" FPs for another attraction. Those replacement FPs will no longer be for any ride in the park -- they'll be for a comparable experience (e.g., "Fantasyland dark ride" for "Fantasyland dark ride").

@marni1971 from a logistics perspective, I'm assuming the pools of DLP Super, Ultimate, Hotel, and Hotel VIP FP capacity come from regular FP capacity. (That is, if 80% of a ride's capacity is already allocated to FP, the "paid" FPs come from that 80%, not from the 20% of the ride capacity allocated to standby.) Is that what you think?

 

[mikejs78]

Free FP will still be around in some form. But it may not be as available as it is today or for every attraction.

Boneheaded decision on Disney's part IMO. They could still monetize FP without making it appear that free FP was losing value (even though it would deplete the pool).

 

[LuvWDW2]

think the 'refresh' functionality is back. When it was briefly unavailable, it was most likely a glitch.

The thing I'm referring to is having more 'tiers' or 'categories' in which to segment rides. The first visible evidence of this should be seen when a FP ride goes offline and MDE has to issue "anytime" FPs for another attraction. Those replacement FPs will no longer be for any ride in the park -- they'll be for a comparable experience (e.g., "Fantasyland dark ride" for "Fantasyland dark ride").

I’m kind of OK with this. If we get an anytime FP for a coaster going down, we always ride another coaster anyway.
Just please don’t mess with Refresh!!!

 

[Indy_UK]

Then Disney has the issue of less "on-site benefits" to market. From someone who is only planning our 2nd trip, having 3 a day preaty well guaranteed is better than trying to get non morning ppl up to get paper or Max Pass tickets. Some ppl weigh theme park perks/add ons as risk vs reward. Every version has pros and cons depending on the guest.

They could easily swap out the benefits. Expand the early magic hours, include free photopass etc.

 

[Indy_UK]

Free FP will still be around in some form. But it may not be as available as it is today or for every attraction.

Maybe just ditch the fastpass option from MDE and go back to fastpass booths in the park? Keep it on MDE for those paying for fast passes.

That means you wouldn't have thousands booking rides that they probabaly won't ride, your not taking the park away but means less people will utilise them and help the standby lines move quicker

 

[monothingie]

The thing I'm referring to is having more 'tiers' or 'categories' in which to segment rides. The first visible evidence of this should be seen when a FP ride goes offline and MDE has to issue "anytime" FPs for another attraction. Those replacement FPs will no longer be for any ride in the park -- they'll be for a comparable experience (e.g., "Fantasyland dark ride" for "Fantasyland dark ride").

Peter Pan goes down and your limited to IASW, Under the Sea, or Pooh? That’s a good way to build guest satisfaction.

But I can understand if Buzz or HM goes down, it doesn’t entitle you to an E-Ticket.

 

[monothingie]

Maybe just ditch the fastpass option from MDE and go back to fastpass booths in the park? Keep it on MDE for those paying for fast passes.

That means you wouldn't have thousands booking rides that they probabaly won't ride, your not taking the park away but means less people will utilise them and help the standby lines move quicker

Nope. That would forgo all that data they collect to make operating decisions.

 

[Indy_UK]

I don't think data which tells Disney the flow of the parks on MDE is as important as people think