Vegas is like Epcot

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
meh…back in the day, 20 years ago, you could put $5 in a video poker bar machine and get a free drink. Two years ago it was a $20 minimum. The coins don’t drop out of the machines anymore either. Where is the pageantry of old, Vegas has gone cheap. Bring back the Tropicana and bring it back now! Just pure cheap Vegas, who is the CEO of Vegas that I can blame all of this on, this is not the Vegas that Bugsy made. He is rolling over in his grave!
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
Ka is mostly spectacle (aerials, technology), Love is mostly art (dance and music)… I think O is the perfect combination of spectacle and art which is why it’s so good.

Personally I prefer the spectacle of a show like Ka, my Gf prefers the art of a show like Love, probably why O is our favorite, it falls in the middle so we both love It.
If you like spectacle, that is quite literally the entire essence of Awakening. I love spectacle too.

Looking forward to Love!
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
meh…back in the day, 20 years ago, you could put $5 in a video poker bar machine and get a free drink. Two years ago it was a $20 minimum. The coins don’t drop out of the machines anymore either. Where is the pageantry of old, Vegas has gone cheap. Bring back the Tropicana and bring it back now! Just pure cheap Vegas, who is the CEO of Vegas that I can blame all of this on, this is not the Vegas that Bugsy made. He is rolling over in his grave!
Seems like Caesars Entertainment runs most of the shebang over here now according to tour guides.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
meh…back in the day, 20 years ago, you could put $5 in a video poker bar machine and get a free drink. Two years ago it was a $20 minimum. The coins don’t drop out of the machines anymore either. Where is the pageantry of old, Vegas has gone cheap. Bring back the Tropicana and bring it back now! Just pure cheap Vegas, who is the CEO of Vegas that I can blame all of this on, this is not the Vegas that Bugsy made. He is rolling over in his grave!
Ironically the mayor of Vegas has been Oscar Goodman, and now his wife Carolyn, since before I moved here 20+ years ago. Oscar is famous for being a mob lawyer. Probably as close to a Bugsy type running the town as you can legally get.
 

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
Ironically the mayor of Vegas has been Oscar Goodman, and now his wife Carolyn, since before I moved here 20+ years ago. Oscar is famous for being a mob lawyer. Probably as close to a Bugsy type running the town as you can legally get.
Well…that was the golden days back then and why at every Louis Vuitton store do they have the same merchandise? If I am at the Grand Shoppes or the Palazzo or at Resorts World, I want fresh items. Vegas has clearly gone downhill.

On a side note I bought my 10 month old a purse at LV in 2010 and they said I couldn’t bring my 24oz Bud Light in, well I said no BL no purchase. Guess who was drinking his beer? Me!
 

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
Don’t get me started on the monorail, Vegas takes Eisner’s seconds! But I can get a $20 Nathan’s hotdog with soggy fries. I love that place! Secret of the pros, go to ABC for your 20oz beer. The casinos or LV have no clue!
 

DisneyFanatic12

Well-Known Member
This is an interesting conversation. It reminds me of an astute commentary I read from Joe Rohde on Las Vegas. He pointed out that Las Vegas and theme parks have important similarities, but also striking differences.

In Las Vegas the elements of the city are in competition with each other. Each part of Las Vegas is trying to catch your attention so you spend money and time at their venue. It's a clash of corporate titans trying to appeal to your attention. By contrast, well designed theme parks are designed to reinforce other parts of the experience. For example, Cinderella Castle is not in competition with Main Street USA. The two are designed to harmonize. Cinderella Castle would be a worse experience without Main Street USA and Main Street USA would be a worse experience without Cinderella Castle. A personal favorite example of this concept is the Matterhorn and Sleeping Beauty Castle. The two look like they're made to be together. Because they were! (Well, Matterhorn came later but still ;)).

At the same time it would be foolhardy to dismiss the artistry and sophistication of casinos and other Vegas venues. Rohde himself expressed his admiration for Vegas. The art of grabbing attention and appealing to the senses is no trivial thing. It's easy to scoff at the casino, but it would be doing a disservice to the craft. They know exactly what they're doing and have mastered their vocation. And as the OP has noted, Vegas has remarkable and awe-inspiring sites, sounds, and tastes. It really is extraordinary!

It's not my cup of tea. I much prefer the curated theme park experience. However, I am not about to mock or belittle another form of spatial entertainment. To each their own!

On Epcot vs. Vegas I would make this observation. As originally developed, Epcot (or should I say EPCOT Center) was designed to blend together. Every pavilion was different, but each was part of a grander whole. Nothing makes this more clear than at night when all the pavilions of the nations light up in one grand vista! World Showcase and all of Epcot were one narrative. They were designed to help make people optimistic about the future and feel engaged in human story. By contrast, Vegas has no narrative or purpose. The parts of the whole are disjointed and completely unrelated.

In recent times, both Imagineering and management have lost the discipline and competence to maintain a story across the park. What connects Guardians of the Galaxy, the Moana fountain thing, and the rat ride? Epcot is becoming less and less coherent. So in a way Epcot is becoming more like Vegas. Not optimal. Not because Vegas is bad, but because Epcot was distinct and special.

Anyway, I'd like to thank the OP for the interesting prompt. Cheers!
To be fair, Moana sits right next to an aquarium themed to an IP: The Seas with Nemo and Friends. I think Remy fills the need for another ride in the World Showcase great. I wish all the pavilions had rides like Remy or the Grand Fiesta Tour. Oh, and while the Grand Fiesta Tour was not always themed as such, it has been for a long time. No one complains about it though! Duffy and other kid activities used to fill the World Showcase.


All of this is to say that IP has been in Epcot for a long time. If done right, I have no issue with IP being in Epcot. From what friends of mine have said about the Moana Journey of Water, Moana is a part of it no more than Nemo is part of the aquarium at The Seas pavilion. I personally don’t want to bash and possibly misrepresent something before I’ve experienced it (not that you have misrepresented it, but rather I’d lIke to stay undecided)…


But yes, there is now an EFFORT to bring IP to the parks that was not there before. Before it felt like IP just made it into the park. Now, it’s seemed a little forced. Yet, to act as though IP has not been in the park until recently (2010 and later) is largely false (this is more just a reply to the general notion of many that Epcot was somehow magically different before Chapek/recently. I mean no offense to WoundedDreamer, and this is more of a general reply).
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
The reason Vegas seems superior in some ways is because there are many businesses there, all competing for your dollar.

First of all, the competition close by forces them to innovate and attract you, but there is also just more money because it’s not just 1 company with 1 budget.

Disney is an example of how a small scale monopoly is bad. Disney needs competition and waaaayyyy better management. Disney may have the worst management in the industry and some of the worst of the S&P500.
 

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
When you have virtually unlimited money to play with you can build whatever you want. Money just rolls in freely from gambling sources that never ends. Never heard of someone losing their home and life savings on a bad streak of bets at Disney. If Dis had the resources these guys have they could do the same.
Soon they will with Disney’s newest partner in PENN lol
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Yeah, try getting a seat at the club and you can quickly feel not VIP unless you're a whale or ready to pay 2k for bottle service.
I’m sure that’s true, but I didn’t say high rollers guarantee everyone in Vegas a VIP experience. Just that they subsidize room costs. Out of curiosity I looked up prices for MGM Skylofts in August and they’re about on par with what you’d pay for a standard room at the Polynesian. You get a lot more bang for your buck at a Vegas hotel, price wise.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
I’m sure that’s true, but I didn’t say high rollers guarantee everyone in Vegas a VIP experience. Just that they subsidize room costs. Out of curiosity I looked up prices for MGM Skylofts in August and they’re about on par with what you’d pay for a standard room at the Polynesian. You get a lot more bang for your buck at a Vegas hotel, price wise.
Oh for sure, but again it's like comparing a NYC and phoenix hotel prices. It's kinda crazy how much Vegas hotel prices have gone up over the years, they used to be even more subsidized but I think online gambling and more states having it have made it that Vegas needs to pull people in for the food and partyingm.
Have to say last stay at the MGM 2 years ago...people complain about WDW hotel upkeep, the hallways were gross with lighting literally hanging down out of sockets and the room was beat up. Hopefully this has improved since.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Vegas is depressing in a way Disney can never be.
True, but if you didn't feel VIP at Disney for not buying a dessert party package, you sure ain't gonna feel special in Vegas compared to the whales.
I'm not sad and I feel special when I use the $20 trick when checking in at the front desk. It actually works and the upgrade is sweet.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
The reason Vegas seems superior in some ways is because there are many businesses there, all competing for your dollar.

First of all, the competition close by forces them to innovate and attract you, but there is also just more money because it’s not just 1 company with 1 budget.

Disney is an example of how a small scale monopoly is bad. Disney needs competition and waaaayyyy better management. Disney may have the worst management in the industry and some of the worst of the S&P500.
Another reason I am thankful for Uni being "right next door".

...still kind of an oligopoly, but better than nothing.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
I thought the Wynn was super duper nice though!! Best poop in a stall I've ever had in my life.

Venetian is a bucket list for sure though.
*Bellagio is the best poop you will EVER have anywhere on the planet. The restrooms are like the throne room for royalty. Marble, crystal & gold as far as the eye can see. Full height divider doors garnished in ornate Venetian surrounds. So clean everything sparkles. Even the toilet water seems inviting. Indeed, it is that opulent.

*not to be confused with the best toilets on the planet. That prize goes to Japan and their amazing computerized commodes.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
Oh for sure, but again it's like comparing a NYC and phoenix hotel prices. It's kinda crazy how much Vegas hotel prices have gone up over the years, they used to be even more subsidized but I think online gambling and more states having it have made it that Vegas needs to pull people in for the food and partyingm.
Have to say last stay at the MGM 2 years ago...people complain about WDW hotel upkeep, the hallways were gross with lighting literally hanging down out of sockets and the room was beat up. Hopefully this has improved since.
Right?!? They used to be almost free. Or free. Then the prices skyrocketed. Buffet prices too.

We usually stay a little off the strip at the Rio. Prices are ok during the week ($60ish), but saturday night they spike ($200ish).
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
Right?!? They used to be almost free. Or free. Then the prices skyrocketed. Buffet prices too.
Buffets are $35 a person... I think Disney charges on average $60 a person for less quality food buffets? Excluding Germany, I'd pay $60 for that place again.
We usually stay a little off the strip at the Rio. Prices are ok during the week ($60ish), but saturday night they spike ($200ish).
We are at the Rio. It's super shabby. There was a guy with either a stab or gunshot wound on a dolly right outside of the elevators. (thats just Vegas tho)

Of all the shows we have seen in Vegas, "Wow" was the most eh. Penn and Teller also aren't performing this week. And the room we got has wrinkled worn out carpet, pumpkin seeds on the floor in the hall haven't been cleaned up all week. Broken lamps in the hall. Half of the pools are closed off by a wall of plastic chairs.

TO BE FAIR, though, apparently Dreamscape bought it out and they're doing a refurb. But this place... Oof. It's rough. Nothing is open. Lots of closed restaurants... The sky masquerade show never plays.. the Uber/door dash pickup, you gotta go up escalators, outside, and down an elevator to the bottom of a parking garage..

I will give it credit for being the quietest and emptiest resort we have been to. It's nice to return to a super quiet hotel after a long day in Vegas.

But yea... COVID must have messed this place up.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
But yea... COVID must have messed this place up.

You're seeing the end of a cycle in Vegas right now... Circus Circus, Excalibur, etc are all in this boat. It's all development that was done in the 90s that is now long long in the tooth. Vegas has since pivoted since those hotels were all built.. and now the build style is luxury and contemporary... that's wynn, cosmo, etc. Massive development and expansion of NEW properties was happening, instead of redoing old properties.. and then much of that stopped again with the implosion of borrowing in 2008... and subsequent slowdowns in commercial development that have doomed many LV projects. This has made the landscape a mashup of '90s vegas left in place', 'ultra lounge era vegas' and a ton of 'failed projects'.

The whole scheme of how land is owned and who operates the casinos probably has a big part of why projects have been additive instead of teardowns. At some point though, those long in the tooth properties are going to be torn down. Stuff like Rio that was built way off the beaten casino path are doomed by their location. Rio being on the other side of the interstate is in 'urban' LV...

Atlantic City got to this point eventually where it was decades past it's prime and left to rot as long as it kept paying bills or buyouts/bankruptcies kept it afloat. Many 90s vegas properties aren't far from that these days.
 

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