Vegas is like Epcot

[jloucks]

You're seeing the end of a cycle in Vegas right now... Circus Circus, Excalibur, etc are all in this boat. It's all development that was done in the 90s that is now long long in the tooth. Vegas has since pivoted since those hotels were all built.. and now the build style is luxury and contemporary... that's wynn, cosmo, etc. Massive development and expansion of NEW properties was happening, instead of redoing old properties.. and then much of that stopped again with the implosion of borrowing in 2008... and subsequent slowdowns in commercial development that have doomed many LV projects. This has made the landscape a mashup of '90s vegas left in place', 'ultra lounge era vegas' and a ton of 'failed projects'.

The whole scheme of how land is owned and who operates the casinos probably has a big part of why projects have been additive instead of teardowns. At some point though, those long in the tooth properties are going to be torn down. Stuff like Rio that was built way off the beaten casino path are doomed by their location. Rio being on the other side of the interstate is in 'urban' LV...

Atlantic City got to this point eventually where it was decades past it's prime and left to rot as long as it kept paying bills or buyouts/bankruptcies kept it afloat. Many 90s vegas properties aren't far from that these days.

We are at the Rio. It's super shabby. There was a guy with either a stab or gunshot wound on a dolly right outside of the elevators. (thats just Vegas tho)

Of all the shows we have seen in Vegas, "Wow" was the most eh. Penn and Teller also aren't performing this week. And the room we got has wrinkled worn out carpet, pumpkin seeds on the floor in the hall haven't been cleaned up all week. Broken lamps in the hall. Half of the pools are closed off by a wall of plastic chairs.

You can add the Stratosphere to the list. We used to like that place because it had (sorta) a monorail stop. But all the homeless between you and the 1/4 block walk to the station kiboshed that at night.

...that and the entire place got pretty crusty inside.

I am shocked they closed the Rio pools, that was one of the things that place really had going for it.

I have never, not once, seen the Penn and Teller show actually in session at the Rio the last 8 times we were there. (as in, ever)

The Rio has a really good conference center attached to it, I am sure that helps with revenue. I know because of the jam packed Star Trek convention they hold there every year.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I am shocked they closed the Rio pools

Two out of four of them were closed off

I have never, not once, seen the Penn and Teller show actually in session at the Rio the last 8 times we were there.

They had a TV show recording that was free. We signed up but decided to pass on it for other options.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Another reason I am thankful for Uni being "right next door".

...still kind of an oligopoly, but better than nothing.

I agree, but I honestly don't think Disney even pays attention to them...wrongly. Universal should make them better and I feel like Disney just doesn't care.

 

[Chef Mickey]

You can add the Stratosphere to the list. We used to like that place because it had (sorta) a monorail stop. But all the homeless between you and the 1/4 block walk to the station kiboshed that at night.

...that and the entire place got pretty crusty inside.

I am shocked they closed the Rio pools, that was one of the things that place really had going for it.

I have never, not once, seen the Penn and Teller show actually in session at the Rio the last 8 times we were there. (as in, ever)

The Rio has a really good conference center attached to it, I am sure that helps with revenue. I know because of the jam packed Star Trek convention they hold there every year.

I don't really understand the love for Vegas here even though some things are executed pretty well. The problem is, it's still Vegas. It's a dump with a lot of degenerates, smoking, drugs, alcohol, and douchebags. It's also kind of all the same. 1-2 days and I'm good there too.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I don't really understand the love for Vegas here even though some things are executed pretty well. The problem is, it's still Vegas. It's a dump with a lot of degenerates, smoking, drugs, alcohol, and douchebags. It's also kind of all the same. 1-2 days and I'm good there too.

We spent a week. Saw a show each night, ate good food each day, and swam in the mornings. Had a great time.

 

[Chef Mickey]

We spent a week. Saw a show each night, ate good food each day, and swam in the mornings. Had a great time.

I've been too. I'm good. It's not horrible, but I'm not a fan. Glad you had fun though.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

You're seeing the end of a cycle in Vegas right now... Circus Circus, Excalibur, etc are all in this boat. It's all development that was done in the 90s that is now long long in the tooth. Vegas has since pivoted since those hotels were all built.. and now the build style is luxury and contemporary... that's wynn, cosmo, etc. Massive development and expansion of NEW properties was happening, instead of redoing old properties.. and then much of that stopped again with the implosion of borrowing in 2008... and subsequent slowdowns in commercial development that have doomed many LV projects. This has made the landscape a mashup of '90s vegas left in place', 'ultra lounge era vegas' and a ton of 'failed projects'.

The whole scheme of how land is owned and who operates the casinos probably has a big part of why projects have been additive instead of teardowns. At some point though, those long in the tooth properties are going to be torn down. Stuff like Rio that was built way off the beaten casino path are doomed by their location. Rio being on the other side of the interstate is in 'urban' LV...

Atlantic City got to this point eventually where it was decades past it's prime and left to rot as long as it kept paying bills or buyouts/bankruptcies kept it afloat. Many 90s vegas properties aren't far from that these days.

Atlantic city even in it's heyday has never matched Vegas. I remember when Trump opened the Taj and it was a dump opening day, half finished etc..
Borgota stepped it up a bit.
Excalibur is actually looking pretty decent still, but yes Vegas is a total mishmash. And the resorts seem to switch hands more and more often. We went 2 years ago, and several of the MGM properties have become owned by other entities in that time.

 

[jloucks]

I don't really understand the love for Vegas here even though some things are executed pretty well. The problem is, it's still Vegas. It's a dump with a lot of degenerates, smoking, drugs, alcohol, and douchebags. It's also kind of all the same. 1-2 days and I'm good there too.

I guess it all depends on what you are doing there. Everything you said is true, but there are also the world class shows, gambling (which, if you are not a degenerate, can be fun-ish) food (albeit really expensive now) and conventions. If you use Vegas as a home base, you can also do lots of different Grand Canyon activities like the Hover dam and Grand Canyon Railway. If you like riding around in trains I highly recommend this excursion.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Our train robbers were so old, they had to stop the train so we could get robbed. No jumping from horses for these guys, lol.

The 50th anniversary Star Trek convention there was one of the most fun weeks of my life. It helps I won a boatload of $$$.

You really have me thinking about the term "dump". Ya know, I think that is kind of its charm. I cannot think of any other place I walk into a room that is a little shab, and just kinda blow it off. ...I am pretty spoiled too, fwiw.

Although, even my shab room at the Rio had a spectacular full wall window with an amazing view. For the $60 a night I paid, the view was worth $100!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Although, even my shab room at the Rio had a spectacular full wall window with an amazing view. For the $60 a night I paid, the view was worth $100!

Rio needed a major refurb 10-15 years ago, but the bones are good. Large rooms, lots of amenities, the views, the pools etc

It's a property that benefited from being part of the Caesar's chain for many years, which kept it afloat and drove business and loyalty, along with low rates and long term 3rd party tenants like Penn and Teller and Chippendales. It's big for Poker and conventions too.

I think fixing it up would work better than a total replacement, but I also understand that with these older buildings there comes a point where it's easier to just do the latter.

 

[phillip9698]

The reason Vegas seems superior in some ways is because there are many businesses there, all competing for your dollar.

First of all, the competition close by forces them to innovate and attract you, but there is also just more money because it’s not just 1 company with 1 budget.

Disney is an example of how a small scale monopoly is bad. Disney needs competition and waaaayyyy better management. Disney may have the worst management in the industry and some of the worst of the S&P500.

On the strip there are essentially only 2 companies, MGM and Caesars operating under a bunch of different names.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Although, even my shab room at the Rio had a spectacular full wall window with an amazing view. For the $60 a night I paid, the view was worth $100!

I agree. The full wall window was spectacular.

The window from the bedroom to inside the shower tho? Questionable...

 

[WondersOfLife]

On the strip there are essentially only 2 companies, MGM and Caesars operating under a bunch of different names.

On a different note, I think Rio was bought by Dreamscape.

Which, if they're smart, Caesars will just buy back after it's fixed up again.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The window from the bedroom to inside the shower tho? Questionable...

Sahara has rooms like this too, I think...except it's not just a window, it's the full glass shower wall practically in the bedroom

For couples...I guess.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Sahara has rooms like this too, I think...except it's not just a window, it's the full glass shower wall practically in the bedroom

For couples...I guess.

Bruh.

 

[Robbiem]

I’ve had that bathroom set up in quite a few hotels around the world but usually they have a blind or screen so you have a privacy option. The worst set up I had was the Hiroshima sheraton where the bathroom was part of the bedroom with just a door to the shower area and another for the toilet. Not fun for sharing a room! The best was caesars palace where I had a bath so big it had steps to get in and out!

I know some people with issues can end up with nothing, debts or other issues due to gambling in Vegas but its not the casino’s business model, like Disney they want you to leave happy so you’ll return and spend more. About 20 years ago a British guy did a doco where he gambled everything on a roulette spin. It took a long time to find a vegas casino who would back him because none of them wanted to be seen as the people who took everything

The other interesting thing about Vegas is the different approaches to design. Some places like the New York New York or Venetian use ‘replitecture’ where they recreate famous landmarks where others like the Bellagio use ‘evocetecture’ where the design evokes a place like the Italian Lakes but doesn’t replicate anywhere in particular

 

[Chef Mickey]

On the strip there are essentially only 2 companies, MGM and Caesars operating under a bunch of different names.

Even with 2 there is competition. I think the Wynn, Vici and Apollo are there too, but it's still better than Disney who seemingly think they compete with themselves or maybe politicians.

 

[Lilofan]

I’ve had that bathroom set up in quite a few hotels around the world but usually they have a blind or screen so you have a privacy option. The worst set up I had was the Hiroshima sheraton where the bathroom was part of the bedroom with just a door to the shower area and another for the toilet. Not fun for sharing a room! The best was caesars palace where I had a bath so big it had steps to get in and out!

I know some people with issues can end up with nothing, debts or other issues due to gambling in Vegas but its not the casino’s business model, like Disney they want you to leave happy so you’ll return and spend more. About 20 years ago a British guy did a doco where he gambled everything on a roulette spin. It took a long time to find a vegas casino who would back him because none of them wanted to be seen as the people who took everything

The other interesting thing about Vegas is the different approaches to design. Some places like the New York New York or Venetian use ‘replitecture’ where they recreate famous landmarks where others like the Bellagio use ‘evocetecture’ where the design evokes a place like the Italian Lakes but doesn’t replicate anywhere in particular

Numerous budget minded hotels and even when I stayed at Coronado Springs is where the bathroom sink was part of the hotel room and a door that separated the toilet/shower area.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Numerous budget minded hotels and even when I stayed at Coronado Springs is where the bathroom sink was part of the hotel room and a door that separated the toilet/shower area.

Yea that's not an uncommon thing.

 

[Robbiem]

Numerous budget minded hotels and even when I stayed at Coronado Springs is where the bathroom sink was part of the hotel room and a door that separated the toilet/shower area.

No it wasn’t like coronado springs or one of the other resorts like that when the sink was in an alcove or generally separated from the sleeping area & there is an actual room with the toilet and bath. Everything was basically in the bedroom - the sinks faced the beds with only the counter top and mirror separating them, the shower was behind this (where the sink would be in coronado) and the toilet was to the side with a sliding screen (where the rail would be at coronado). It was too open plan for us as a family as it was embarrassing using the toilet or shower with other people being able to see you

I found the photo below of the sink - the toilet in behind the door on the right and the shower cubicle with glass door is behind you facing into the room

 

[WondersOfLife]

No it wasn’t like coronado springs or one of the other resorts like that when the sink was in an alcove or generally separated from the sleeping area & there is an actual room with the toilet and bath. Everything was basically in the bedroom - the sinks faced the beds with only the counter top and mirror separating them, the shower was behind this (where the sink would be in coronado) and the toilet was to the side with a sliding screen (where the rail would be at coronado). It was too open plan for us as a family as it was embarrassing using the toilet or shower with other people being able to see you

I found the photo below of the sink - the toilet in behind the door on the right and the shower cubicle with glass door is behind you facing into the roomView attachment 738524

Ohhh I see. Weird.