Universal vs. Disney

[Animaniac93-98]

The only "Disney vs Universal" argument I care about is what resort offers me better value for money.

A 3-day park2park ticket at Universal is currently $218.33, to visit 2 full-day parks that are consistently receiving new additions.

A 3-day hopper at WDW is $346.13 to visit 4 parks, 3 of which are not full-day parks for me and 1 which (while getting better) is a weaker version of it's Parisian and Californian cousins.

Now for about $57 more I can upgrade that WDW admission to a 5-day pass, but for $356.78 I can get an Annual Pass to Universal with food and hotel discounts.

Now this is just tickets. This doesn't even get into the hotels at UNI which provide a better value for money with more benefits, while also being closer to the parks.

Food and merch is roughly the same at both (aka overpriced). I'll give Disney the food advantage since they have so many TS options, with Epcot easily getting 1st place in that category.

Still, for someone looking to spend 4/5 nights in Orlando, UNI is the better value for me. Even if I want to go to MK for a day, staying on-site at Universal is still the better option.

Maybe this will change for me 7 years (!?) from now, but for 2015 and 2016, Uni "wins"...for me.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I get it. Universal is building kewler stuff. I never said that the "Universal is building kewler stuff" argument is invalid. I pointed out that the market share argument is invalid. My "simple economy" example holds true for larger numbers. Disney growing by 2 million guests and universal growing by 1 millions guests would show up in the statistics as universal "gaining market share" because they took 33% of the new entrants into the market, thus pulling their percentage up from the 25% (or whatever it is) they currently have. Do you really think it would be evidence of Universal "beating" Disney if they grew by 1 million guests and Disney grew by 2 million guests?

Also, you're sipping something special if you think Nintendo, which insiders have confirmed to be a kiddie land, is going to have anywhere near the impact that Star Wars is going to have at DHS. I note that you conveniently excluded Star Wars and Pixar from your projections entirely.

This is simply incorrect. You are talking about percentage increases in attendance. Not market share. You are correct that a 1% increase at the MK is larger than a 1% increase at IOA. That has nothing to do with market share. Market share is you take the number of people coming to the Orlando market and figure out the percentages going where. The fact the market is growing is good, but irrelevant.

But it is interesting as to why the market is growing.

 

[mahnamahna101]

I get it. Universal is building kewler stuff. I never said that the "Universal is building kewler stuff" argument is invalid. I pointed out that the market share argument is invalid. My "simple economy" example holds true for larger numbers. Disney growing by 2 million guests and universal growing by 1 millions guests would show up in the statistics as universal "gaining market share" because they took 33% of the new entrants into the market, thus pulling their percentage up from the 25% (or whatever it is) they currently have. Do you really think it would be evidence of Universal "beating" Disney if they grew by 1 million guests and Disney grew by 2 million guests?

Also, you're sipping something special if you think Nintendo, which insiders have confirmed to be a kiddie land, is going to have anywhere near the impact that Star Wars is going to have at DHS. I note that you conveniently excluded Star Wars and Pixar from your projections entirely.

Universal doesn't need the most market share... it just needs a good portion. Universal Orlando's parks will always be below MK. DHS will likely be untouchable with Star Wars/Pixar (13.5-14.5 million by 2025 IMO). But in 15-20 years, they could leapfrog Epcot/AK if Pandora and a possible Imagination overhaul are all they get until the late 2020s. And maybe equal DHS at some point.

I agree that Disney is 'beating' Universal in terms of guests. But in terms of quality? in terms of convenience? in terms of affordability? Universal's sweeping them clean. ToT and Kilimanjaro are the only things Disney has added to WDW in the last 20 years that come close to Spidey/FJ/MIB.

I ignored Star Wars/Pixar because neither will be done until 2019 at the earliest. Only TSPL will be open over the 5 yr period I'm looking at (2014-2019). We MIGHT get a C-ticket dark ride by 2019. But there's no real confirmation yet. I'd love to see them open earlier, but I doubt TDO would allow it.

I did say DHS would top both once Pixar/Star Wars are done. But until then, Universal Orlando will be ahead for a couple of years.

Nintendo isn't a kiddie land, though. Far less kiddie than New Fantasyland... Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong and Pokemon have insane amounts of appeal with teens, and all of those except Pokemon appeal to older adults (30 and up), too. Unless POTC, HM, Jungle Cruise, the classic Journey to Imagination, Spaceship Earth, Kilimanjaro and GMR are 'kiddie' ...Based on hints, Universal is planning a trackless dark ride themed to Mario Kart, something for Zelda, and something for Donkey Kong. Pokemon may get something, too (show, flat ride or play area)

Spirit and a few Uni insiders are excited about the Nintendo additions to USF. They're saying more sets/AAs than the latest screen-based additions.

1.1 million is akin to MK's increase after NFL's grand opening minus SDMT.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Volcano Bay will be a game changer. Not so much in park attendance, but in nights stayed on property.

Disney likes when Universal spends a wad if cash on attractions that bring people to Orlando. Disney HATES when Universal builds higher quality accommodations at lower price points and teams them up with a state of the art water park within walking distance of their 3 largest hotels.

Potter started the paradigm shift. And Universal is doing what is necessary to continue it's slow but sure pace at capturing market share.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Universal doesn't need the most market share... it just needs a good portion.

No, Universal ABSOLUTELY needs more, at least on a per-park basis, if people want to make stupid comments like "Universal is winning." Your big selling point is that Universal's best park MIGHT pass WDW's worst park temporarily while that park is half closed for a game-changing expansion. Come on.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Ever notice a Magic Band or two on people at Universal? Until Universal can figure that one out they will always be a number two.

Jimmy Thick- You could even make a fair argument SDMT brought more people to Florida than DA.

 

[mahnamahna101]

No, Universal ABSOLUTELY needs more, at least on a per-park basis, if people want to make stupid comments like "Universal is winning." Your big selling point is that Universal's best park MIGHT pass WDW's worst park temporarily while that park is half closed for a game-changing expansion. Come on.

Do you mean more attractions?... because USF/IOA already surpass DHS/Epcot/AK in that regard

More hotels? Because Steve Burke is shooting for 10,000-12,000 rooms by the early 2020s.

More parks? Because Volcano Bay and the 3rd gate make it 4. And those 4 will have more attractions than all of WDW, currently. Epcot has 23, DHS MIGHT have 16, AK has 14-15, MK has 33,

More attendance? Because both will have at least 10 million/yr EACH by 2018.

It's not really MIGHT. THe only reason DHS has 10.3 million right now is because TDO 'fudges' the numbers for AK/DHS. Uni insiders and some Disney insiders have hinted that they draw closer to 7.5-8.5 million/yr right now. While Uni insiders have hinted that IOA/USF did closer to 9 million than 8 million last year.

Quality-wise, Universal is winning. Nothing TDO has done since Kilimanjaro comes close to Universal Orlando's output over the last 5 years (possibly 10).

I won't deny that Disney is king in attendance and probably will be for the next 50 years, at least... but I know Walt could care less about having 50 million/yr visit his resort if his product wasn't the best of the best. Universal Orlando will be far ahead of the other WDW parks in quality by the 50th. Even with SWL/Pixar, DHS will still need a little more fleshing out, similar to what USF did after WWOHP.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Ever notice a Magic Band or two on people at Universal? Until Universal can figure that one out they will always be a number two.

Jimmy Thick- You could even make a fair argument SDMT brought more people to Florida than DA.

In attendance, sure.

In quality? They've been number one since 2010

I'd much rather have less attendance, but higher quality, than high attendance but low quality. 25-30m/yr is still great if you know how to budget properly and maximize food/bev/merch. That's what Universal should be shooting for (with the 2 main parks and VB... once the third gate comes, over 30m)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's not really MIGHT. THe only reason DHS has 10.3 million right now is because TDO 'fudges' the numbers for AK/DHS. Uni insiders and some Disney insiders have hinted that they draw closer to 7.5-8.5 million/yr right now. While Uni insiders have hinted that IOA/USF did closer to 9 million than 8 million last year.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Go ask the insiders over at OU. I'm not making it up. Look under the thread 'TEA 2015 Numbers'.

DHS can't feasibly fit 9-10 million/yr with just TSMM, RnRC, Star Tours, GMR, Frozen, and ToT. I wanna know what you're drinking if you buy the 10.3 million/yr # for a park with little capacity at this point.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Go ask the insiders over at OU. I'm not making it up. Look under the thread 'TEA 2015 Numbers'.

DHS can't feasibly fit 9-10 million/yr with just TSMM, RnRC, Star Tours, GMR, Frozen, and ToT. I wanna know what you're drinking if you buy the 10.3 million/yr # for a park with little capacity at this point.

You're totally right. It makes much more sense that WDW deliberately lied about their attendance (a figure they don't publish in the first place) because... reasons(?) than simply that more people go to DHS than IOA.

I don't care about your ride count. DHS is and has always been a "show park." Their theaters are enormous.

 

[Evolution]

You're totally right. It makes much more sense that WDW deliberately lied about their attendance (a figure they don't publish in the first place) because... reasons(?) than simply that more people go to DHS than IOA.

More people might be going (because of the multi-day tickets) but IOA is a much better park than DHS. Quality over quantity.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

In attendance, sure.

In quality? They've been number one since 2010

I'd much rather have less attendance, but higher quality, than high attendance but low quality. 25-30m/yr is still great if you know how to budget properly and maximize food/bev/merch. That's what Universal should be shooting for (with the 2 main parks and VB... once the third gate comes, over 30m)

Quality is subjective. I feel Disney offers a far superior experience when comparing the two. And a better value.

As for attendance predictions, people have been making excuses for years about attendance numbers or about when Universal will surpass a Disney park, hasn't happened yet and wont as long as I see people to lazy to take off those Magic Bands on Universal property. Might mean they will be going back to their rooms at WDW, I dunno...

But I do know this, if a Universal park legitimately topped a Disney park, the OS would have written a story about it.

Jimmy Thick- This topic a little long in the old tooth...

 

[Rutt]

I wonder why. Universal must be doing something to right for it to continually be mentioned, and whatever they're doing must really frustrate the posters in the WDW forums.

I just find it interesting how the OP is the one that said to take all Universal talk to the Universal forums, and he creates a thread in the Universal forums specifically mentioning Disney. Slightly hypocritical.

Nonody said you couldnt mention Uni on the WDW boards. Its all about the topic at hand. You were asked several times to create a thread. Nobody did so he did, and he chose to create it here.

Feel free to move it to the WDW boards instead.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Ever notice a Magic Band or two on people at Universal? Until Universal can figure that one out they will always be a number two.

Jimmy Thick- You could even make a fair argument SDMT brought more people to Florida than DA.

I'm having lunch at Capital Grille in Pointe Orlando right now and I have seen 2 families with Magic Bands.

 

[Rutt]

Quality is subjective. I feel Disney offers a far superior experience when comparing the two. And a better value.

As for attendance predictions, people have been making excuses for years about attendance numbers or about when Universal will surpass a Disney park, hasn't happened yet and wont as long as I see people to lazy to take off those Magic Bands on Universal property. Might mean they will be going back to their rooms at WDW, I dunno...

But I do know this, if a Universal park legitimately topped a Disney park, the OS would have written a story about it.

Jimmy Thick- This topic a little long in the old tooth...

I believe Disney offers a much more immersive experience. WWoHP is awesome, and Seuss is ok, but area wise, thats about the only time I feel immersed. At Disney, from the second you get off the plane to the second you get back on theyre pushing the ears on you. There is literally zero reason to leave the world if you dont want to. The hotels scream Disney, the restaurants scream Disney and lets face it, nobody is saying no to their little princesses at the World.

Uni is cool to me, although im not really into thrill rides. I myself still give WDW the slight edge.
My wife? My 10 year old boy? My 6 year old boy?
Its no contest.

 

[Mukta]

I don't have any facts or charts. All I know is that I used to visit Universal 1 out of every 3 of my Orlando trips. Then it increased to one day on each trip. Now I am up to two days out of every Orlando trip. I am still visiting WDW, but 2 days out of every trip now include Universal.

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

I think it's Lake Winnepesaukah ("Lake Winnie") amusement park in Chattanooga, TN that both Disney & Universal need to be concerned about. Not only is it labeled as the south's favorite family park by it's own website (top that one, Mickey), but have any of you actually ridden the Cannon Ball roller coaster? Only a matter of time before the true great reclaims the throne...

 

[BrianV]

I think it's Lake Winnepesaukah ("Lake Winnie") amusement park in Chattanooga, TN that both Disney & Universal need to be concerned about. Not only is it labeled as the south's favorite family park by it's own website (top that one, Mickey), but have any of you actually ridden the Cannon Ball roller coaster? Only a matter of time before the true great reclaims the throne...

With this truly amazing post...which actually had me laughing...can we close this post and/or repost it in the general disney forum?

PS we are partial to Story Land up in Glen NH. Cinderellas castle and all!!

 

[StageFrenzy]

I think it's Lake Winnepesaukah ("Lake Winnie") amusement park in Chattanooga, TN that both Disney & Universal need to be concerned about. Not only is it labeled as the south's favorite family park by it's own website (top that one, Mickey), but have any of you actually ridden the Cannon Ball roller coaster? Only a matter of time before the true great reclaims the throne...

With this truly amazing post...which actually had me laughing...can we close this post and/or repost it in the general disney forum?

PS we are partial to Story Land up in Glen NH. Cinderellas castle and all!!

Wait till you see Winnie Mouse, it looks so realistic.