CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
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Universal vs. Disney
- Thread starter PhotoDave219
- Start date
BrianV
Well-Known Member
Was thinking that very thought, but didn't have will enough to find a good picture! Nicely done.
JediMasterMatt
Well-Known Member
The whole Universal vs. WDW debate isn't a very compelling discussion.
The real fun for this board is having debates about Disney Parks vs. Disney Parks, aka DLR vs. WDW or the even more fun.... WDW from 15 years ago vs. WDW today.
Those discussions are more lop sided than any current I-4 "measuring" contest.
The real fun for this board is having debates about Disney Parks vs. Disney Parks, aka DLR vs. WDW or the even more fun.... WDW from 15 years ago vs. WDW today.
Those discussions are more lop sided than any current I-4 "measuring" contest.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
In 2009, UOR had 14.2% market share. In 2014 they were at 22.6% market share. They have gained 8.4% market share in 5 years. Universal is moving the needle.
rioriz
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll bite, of the past decade in additions:
Hogsmeade Expansion>>>Diagon Alley>>>>>Hogsmeade Express>>>>Transformers>>>>New Haunted Mansion effects and queue>>>New Fantasyland>>>>>>>New Test Track>>>>>New Harambe>>>>>>>>Springfield Expansion>>>>New Hub>>>>Tangled Toilets>>>>Peter Pan queue
Hmmm leave anything out?
Well looks like this is really a debate about how Universal has bested itself over the last decade....
I also notice Disney likes to throw New on retreaded things and its like...Boo Yah Baby! There you go....and you are welcome cause we didn't have to do it...well we almost didn't....
Can't wait for New Maelstrom and New Camp Mickey Minnie
Hogsmeade Expansion>>>Diagon Alley>>>>>Hogsmeade Express>>>>Transformers>>>>New Haunted Mansion effects and queue>>>New Fantasyland>>>>>>>New Test Track>>>>>New Harambe>>>>>>>>Springfield Expansion>>>>New Hub>>>>Tangled Toilets>>>>Peter Pan queue
Hmmm leave anything out?
Well looks like this is really a debate about how Universal has bested itself over the last decade....
I also notice Disney likes to throw New on retreaded things and its like...Boo Yah Baby! There you go....and you are welcome cause we didn't have to do it...well we almost didn't....
Can't wait for New Maelstrom and New Camp Mickey Minnie
Eckert
Well-Known Member
I like the agreements Universal has with Warner Bros. concerning Harry Potter, because with those agreements they aren't able to beat a dead horse and have it completely take over all aspects of the parks.
No Harry Potter stunt show, no Harry Potter Summer Fun, no Harry Potter 24-hour event. Harry Potter Weekends is actually just one week, and it's all more-or-less contained in one building.
No Harry Potter stunt show, no Harry Potter Summer Fun, no Harry Potter 24-hour event. Harry Potter Weekends is actually just one week, and it's all more-or-less contained in one building.
rioriz
Well-Known Member
Because the subject shows up in EVERY thread on the Disney ones.....EVERY THREAD
Evolution
Active Member
I wonder why. Universal must be doing something to right for it to continually be mentioned, and whatever they're doing must really frustrate the posters in the WDW forums.
I just find it interesting how the OP is the one that said to take all Universal talk to the Universal forums, and he creates a thread in the Universal forums specifically mentioning Disney. Slightly hypocritical.
Evolution
Active Member
Haha I have no problem seeing the other resort being mentioned here. I think most of the people here don't mind it. It's almost never brought up to start an argument or anything like that. However, for some reason the posters in the WDW forums just can't seem to handle it, since they always think it's either "trolling" or going to start an argument. It's just not that serious.
I like both Universal and Disney and it'd be nice if I wasn't automatically labeled a troll because I'm mentioning one in the "wrong" place.
I like both Universal and Disney and it'd be nice if I wasn't automatically labeled a troll because I'm mentioning one in the "wrong" place.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Market share is nonsense. If I have 99 guests and you have 1, you have 1% market share. If I go to 190 guests and you go to 10, you now have 5% market share. I'm still kicking your , and more so than when we started. But you can crow about how you're growing by 900% and "stealing my market share." Taking market share in a growing market when there's a huge discrepancy in the base of the players is a trick of mathematics, not an actual story.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Lol but you're totally not a troll. Riiiight.
Evolution
Active Member
I'm not and I really don't care if anyone thinks I am. Maybe you didn't see the Hollywood Adventure thread where me and a few other posters were called "trolls" and not "viable" or "productive members" of the community because we mentioned Universal and low post counts. The attacks had to be out of frustration because I really can't think of any other reason for the rude behavior.
champdisney
Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree that Universal is on a league of it's own at this point. It's the ambition and drive to succeed that I admire. Whereas WDW is sitting there, paying no mind simply because they know people will show up to the gates regardless. It's sad but that's the mentality that WDW officials have.
mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
Only Universal Orlando had 16.4 million last year, not 10 people
Look at UO's lineup until 2019:
2015 - NBC Media Lab, Hello Kitty store, CityWalk 3.0, NBC Sports Grill
2016 - Kong, Hulk revamp, Sapphire Falls, Fallon, NBA City replacement
2017 - F&F, Volcano Bay,
2018 - Nintendo
2019 - new slide at Volcano Bay, MSHI overhaul including an Avengers E
This doesn't even include rumors like:
Mummy/E.T. upgrades
JP/JW enhancements
Hogsmeade enhancements
Seuss expansion
LC replacement
TL replacement
Cabana expansion
whatever goes in the WnW plot
Shrek replacement
T2 update/replacement
whatever goes into the MIB/Springfield plot (depending on how much Nintendo takes up)
1-2 more Marvel attractions (if Doom/Carnage and the TL theater/carnival area are used)
IOA nighttime show
Cinematic Spectacular updates
Volcano Bay expansion
the eventual 3rd gate
MoM to replace Fear Factor
more hotels (3-5 more)
Everything I've pointed out beyond those rumors have been confirmed by Uni insiders as a go for the next 5 yrs.
Then, look at WDW's lineup until 2019:
2016 - Frozenstrom, Soarin' expansion, TSMM expansion
2017 - Disney Springs, Pandora
2018 - ... maybe TSPL? (might be 2019)
2019 - ...possibly Pixar? (might be 2020), possibly something for Epcot?
Other than Pandora and the non-TSPL part of Pixar Place's expansion, there's really nothing noteworthy. Frozen Ever After is Maelstrom with Frozen characters. TSMM and Soarin' are simply being brought up to the capacity they should have had on their opening days. TSPL is a couple flat rides (akin to Springfield in terms of depth)
You think they won't continue to expand their market share? Especially when DHS is all but set to either stay flat or decline over the next 3-4 yrs? Universal doesn't need the lion's share... 30-35% will do. Especially when SeaWorld is plummeting. With Volcano Bay and the 3rd gate potentially being DisneySea-caliber, they may near 40% market share in 15-20 yrs. That's long term, but what Uni's doing is a lot more impressive than you're giving them credit for.
Universal doesn't need to beat Disney... it just needs a bigger piece of the pie. Volcano Bay is on the horizon. The parks are filling their expansion pads to maximize guest-accessible space. A third gate is on the drawing board - likely to be greenlit within the next 5 years IMO, since both of the current parks should be relatively set by 2020.
2015
DHS - 10.1 million (slight decline)
USF - 9.1 million (less of an increase than DA's first full year, but still 0.9 million)
IOA - 8.3 million (DA will hurt it less... Raptor Encounter might be a minor draw)
2016
DHS - 9.8 million (bigger decline due to more closures and Frozen Summer not being 'fresh')
USF - 9.6 million (Fallon + continued DA growth)
IOA - 9.4 million (Kong + Hulk revamp... I'd definitely say 1 million, if they also do the IOA nighttime show)
2017
USF - 10.2 million (F&F + Fallon)
IOA - 10.0 million (continued growth from Kong)
DHS - 9.6 million (more closures and TSPL not opening until end of 2017 at the earliest IMO)
2018
USF - 11.3 million (Nintendo + F&F)
IOA - 10.8 million (MSHI overhaul)
DHS - 9.8 million (TSPL finally opens)
2019
USF - 11.9 million (Nintendo + potentially MoM)
IOA - 11.4 million (MSHI + potentially JW/JP revamp)
DHS - 10.1 million (B&TB/Mermaid replacements, possibly HITSK replacement, too)
If I were more conservative, 10.5-11 million for each park by 2019 seems likely. Especially since Nintendo and Avengers will give Uni a huge boost.
Both should be ahead of DHS by then. Topping ANY WDW theme park is an achievement, even if Star Wars Land/Pixar make that short-lived.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
I get it. Universal is building kewler stuff. I never said that the "Universal is building kewler stuff" argument is invalid. I pointed out that the market share argument is invalid. My "simple economy" example holds true for larger numbers. Disney growing by 2 million guests and universal growing by 1 millions guests would show up in the statistics as universal "gaining market share" because they took 33% of the new entrants into the market, thus pulling their percentage up from the 25% (or whatever it is) they currently have. Do you really think it would be evidence of Universal "beating" Disney if they grew by 1 million guests and Disney grew by 2 million guests?Only Universal Orlando had 16.4 million last year, not 10 people
Look at UO's lineup until 2019:
2015 - NBC Media Lab, Hello Kitty store, CityWalk 3.0, NBC Sports Grill
2016 - Kong, Hulk revamp, Sapphire Falls, Fallon, NBA City replacement
2017 - F&F, Volcano Bay,
2018 - Nintendo
2019 - new slide at Volcano Bay, MSHI overhaul including an Avengers E
This doesn't even include rumors like:
Mummy/E.T. upgrades
JP/JW enhancements
Hogsmeade enhancements
Seuss expansion
LC replacement
TL replacement
Cabana expansion
whatever goes in the WnW plot
Shrek replacement
T2 update/replacement
whatever goes into the MIB/Springfield plot (depending on how much Nintendo takes up)
1-2 more Marvel attractions (if Doom/Carnage and the TL theater/carnival area are used)
IOA nighttime show
Cinematic Spectacular updates
Volcano Bay expansion
the eventual 3rd gate
MoM to replace Fear Factor
more hotels (3-5 more)
Everything I've pointed out beyond those rumors have been confirmed by Uni insiders as a go for the next 5 yrs.
Then, look at WDW's lineup until 2019:
2016 - Frozenstrom, Soarin' expansion, TSMM expansion
2017 - Disney Springs, Pandora
2018 - ... maybe TSPL? (might be 2019)
2019 - ...possibly Pixar? (might be 2020), possibly something for Epcot?
Other than Pandora and the non-TSPL part of Pixar Place's expansion, there's really nothing noteworthy. Frozen Ever After is Maelstrom with Frozen characters. TSMM and Soarin' are simply being brought up to the capacity they should have had on their opening days. TSPL is a couple flat rides (akin to Springfield in terms of depth)
You think they won't continue to expand their market share? Especially when DHS is all but set to either stay flat or decline over the next 3-4 yrs? Universal doesn't need the lion's share... 30-35% will do. Especially when SeaWorld is plummeting. With Volcano Bay and the 3rd gate potentially being DisneySea-caliber, they may near 40% market share in 15-20 yrs. That's long term, but what Uni's doing is a lot more impressive than you're giving them credit for.
Universal doesn't need to beat Disney... it just needs a bigger piece of the pie. Volcano Bay is on the horizon. The parks are filling their expansion pads to maximize guest-accessible space. A third gate is on the drawing board - likely to be greenlit within the next 5 years IMO, since both of the current parks should be relatively set by 2020.
2015
DHS - 10.1 million (slight decline)
USF - 9.1 million (less of an increase than DA's first full year, but still 0.9 million)
IOA - 8.3 million (DA will hurt it less... Raptor Encounter might be a minor draw)
2016
DHS - 9.8 million (bigger decline due to more closures and Frozen Summer not being 'fresh')
USF - 9.6 million (Fallon + continued DA growth)
IOA - 9.4 million (Kong + Hulk revamp... I'd definitely say 1 million, if they also do the IOA nighttime show)
2017
USF - 10.2 million (F&F + Fallon)
IOA - 10.0 million (continued growth from Kong)
DHS - 9.6 million (more closures and TSPL not opening until end of 2017 at the earliest IMO)
2018
USF - 11.3 million (Nintendo + F&F)
IOA - 10.8 million (MSHI overhaul)
DHS - 9.8 million (TSPL finally opens)
2019
USF - 11.9 million (Nintendo + potentially MoM)
IOA - 11.4 million (MSHI + potentially JW/JP revamp)
DHS - 10.1 million (B&TB/Mermaid replacements, possibly HITSK replacement, too)
If I were more conservative, 10.5-11 million for each park by 2019 seems likely. Especially since Nintendo and Avengers will give Uni a huge boost.
Both should be ahead of DHS by then. Topping ANY WDW theme park is an achievement, even if Star Wars Land/Pixar make that short-lived.
Also, you're sipping something special if you think Nintendo, which insiders have confirmed to be a kiddie land, is going to have anywhere near the impact that Star Wars is going to have at DHS. I note that you conveniently excluded Star Wars and Pixar from your projections entirely.
Evolution
Active Member
Source? It's supposed to be going into where the KidZone is but it's not going to be a kiddie land, at least that's what I've heard.