Universal announces yet another major attraction, Disney taking a nap

[whylightbulb]

The problem is everyone has their own interpretation of The Disney Way now. While this may call for increase quality across the board (which isn't a bad thing), there will always be someone that claims they didn't get it right.

Yes there are many with their own interpretation but there are also very real standards despite what anyone may say. It's an incontrovertible fact that many of these standards are not being met. This is not an opinion, it's black and white.

For example, I once pointed out on this board that Disney used to keep a Main Street light bulb log. The purpose was to change each bulb before any of them burnt out. That standard went out about 10 years ago. Show quality used to have standards, now there isn't even a show quality department.

 

[WDW1974]

After the calamity that was the DL opening celebration, media outlets were nearly universally negative. Headlines included:
"Walt's Dream a Nitemare"
"Park Can't Handle Opening Day Crush"
"Disneyland Opens Amid Traffic Jams, Confusion"
"Disneyland Shatters Illusion"
"Gripes Tarnish Disneyland's Glitter"
"Disney's Folly"
"A Hollywood spectacular... a spectacular failure"

If that doesn't sound familiar to forum thread titles, then I don't know what does. The media had a platform to complain in the 1950s, now everyone does. The vital difference between Disney then and now isn't them, it's us.

(Headlines from David Koenig's Mouse Tales)

Yeah. Those were headlines at opening. So what? It didn't take very long for those headlines to fade into history as we all know how quickly DL became a huge success.

But I fundamentally disagree that the difference between Disney then and now is us.

Walt was alive. He was a visionary man with an incredible stable of artists, artisans and engineers in his employ. He wanted to make money ... but he wanted far more than that. He wanted to do the impossible.

The Disney of today is a global media behemoth that is still trying to live off an amazing reputation and creative legacy. ... Sometimes they can do that (anything Pixar puts out for example), but more often they don't even come close ... and worse, it doesn't appear they even care about trying.

 

[The Conundrum]

Only thing lame is that there replacing the Bob Gurr Kong and the physical props/special effects with CG projections. I wish it was a combo of AA/and video/surround.

 

[hrcollectibles]

What I was getting at is that Disney can do nothing without getting flak from at least one group of fans. If they change nothing or very little, people complain that the attraction is stale. If they change too much, people complain that the ride is worse off than it was and the changes have destroyed the ride's feel. Despite your claims, people can belong to both groups simultaneously.

That's the real paradox with many fans -- they want something new and fresh, but the second you tamper with something old and beloved, they're up in arms. Space's shorter refurb means they're changing less, causing mass uproar. Yet if they pursued an extensive refurbishment and tore the track out and changed it, people would complain it was too far removed from the original and so worse.

The addition of a few small appropriately-themed Disney characters to DL's IASW caused mass hysteria and rage for 'crossing the line'. Fixing the dolls and giving everything a new coat of paint in WDW's version is met by cries of Disney's cheapness and laziness. No harm meant to any WDWMagic forumites, but people can be exceptionally petty. :shrug:

You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.
As Walt Said " Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."
Maybe the reason we are not getting anything new is because there is no more imagination left? :ROFLOL:

 

[Fun2BFree]

Yeah. Those were headlines at opening. So what? It didn't take very long for those headlines to fade into history as we all know how quickly DL became a huge success.

And yet WDW's success continues to increase. Our petty complaints will fade into history just as they have for so many years. The veterans on this board can attest that in the early millennium, forumites were still complaining. How many people still remember Thrawn? How many people will remember him in a decade? Two?

In a few years, this thread will be dead and forgotten. Disney will still be profitable and successful.

 

[jt04]

Yeah. Those were headlines at opening. So what? It didn't take very long for those headlines to fade into history as we all know how quickly DL became a huge success.

But I fundamentally disagree that the difference between Disney then and now is us.

Walt was alive. He was a visionary man with an incredible stable of artists, artisans and engineers in his employ. He wanted to make money ... but he wanted far more than that. He wanted to do the impossible.

The Disney of today is a global media behemoth that is still trying to live off an amazing reputation and creative legacy. ... Sometimes they can do that (anything Pixar puts out for example), but more often they don't even come close ... and worse, it doesn't appear they even care about trying.

DCA being the exception to the rule.

And the PatF

And those two new DVC's.

I don't disagree with everything you say but my glass is half full because of Iger/Lasseter.

 

[EpcotServo]

I'm looking forward to Dan Brown's new novel about a war between Disney fans, with Robert Langdon trying to solve the clues before a crazed member of a shadowy organization called "The Defenders of Mediocrity" blows up Future World. I heard there's a thrilling chase in the chillingly grave streets of Pleasure Island, and that you'll never see the twist coming at the end of the book!

 

[jakeman]

I don't agree at all (shocking, right?)

Disney's standards have dropped and things that weren't acceptable in everything from custodial to cast grooming to effects on attractions to theming etc have changed ... that's what I talk about when I say WDW of 2009 is a shell of WDW of 1979 or 1989 ... because the basics ... they are largely paid lip service to.

You misunderstand me. I'm not addressing the current state of the parks at all. I'm saying that the internet has allow the exchanging of ideas and a more individual "Disney Way", one that in some cases will never be realized.

It's the same with the numerous "Spirit of Epcot" threads that pop up. The diehard fans have their version in their head and Disney will never be able to match.

I'm not saying anything more than that.

A fundamental truth is that Disney runs WDW in a different manner in 2009 than it did in 1989 and many of the people making the decisions have a completely different background from the ones making them 20 years ago.

That doesn't change just because you and I can talk about it here.

If this was a thread 20 years ago it would be you and me posting with you claiming that Disney wasn't run the same in 1969 than in 1989. The time's have changed, but I bet if you plopped this forum down back then you would see alot of the same type threads.

I'm not arguing about the current state of the parks, I'm talking about the problem of fans and the internet. I'll have to agree with Fun2BFree on this one. Walt would be Iger. Internet forums would have destroyed Disneyland in their post.

 

[hrcollectibles]

The problem is everyone has their own interpretation of The Disney Way now. While this may call for increase quality across the board (which isn't a bad thing), there will always be someone that claims they didn't get it right.

Funny how the complaining started about the same time as the internet.

I wonder if there was an internet like we have today 20 years ago how many "MGM sucks" threads there would be? Or "When are they going to replace the Hook and Pooh elections?"

The internet allows contempt to breed rampantly.

I don't want to get into a "Rawr! Disney is worse now. We are in a depression! I hate Bush and American cars!" debate with you, just pointing out some observations.

I have often thought what if there was the Internet back when Disney World announced? How many naysayers there would have been

 

[Jasonflz]

oh come on - I can't write
_
_
_
I
N
G

but I can write 'crappy?'

dumb.

No.:lol:

 

[jakeman]

Yes there are many with their own interpretation but there are also very real standards despite what anyone may say. It's an incontrovertible fact that many of these standards are not being met. This is not an opinion, it's black and white.

For example, I once pointed out on this board that Disney used to keep a Main Street light bulb log. The purpose was to change each bulb before any of them burnt out. That standard went out about 10 years ago. Show quality used to have standards, now there isn't even a show quality department.

Yeah, I wasn't clear. See my above post. The Disney Way isn't about the companies standards, it's about the interpretation of those standards by fans being molded by internet communities.

Yeah. Those were headlines at opening. So what? It didn't take very long for those headlines to fade into history as we all know how quickly DL became a huge success.

Just like threads about the Land changing. If you had been here then you would have thought they were going to burn the place down.

But I fundamentally disagree that the difference between Disney then and now is us.

Come on now. It's both. The company has changed and not all for the good, but the gulf between those that want everything to be perfect and those that will accept anything has gotten wider too. There are very few normal people anymore.

 

[jt04]

I have often thought what if there was the Internet back when Disney World announced? How many naysayers there would have been

Oh there were plenty of naysayers, some thought it was a crazy idea. I bet wdw74's dad was one of them. :lol: And enigmas dad too.

 

[jakeman]

I have often thought what if there was the Internet back when Disney World announced? How many naysayers there would have been

Or EPCOT Center? Their heads would have exploded.

Just imagine people who grew up with Walt, getting a wiff of EPCOT rumors and then being presented with...another theme park...

The carnage would have been glorious. :lol:

 

[CBOMB]

Hokie, dude ... what would you like me to say?

That this is another rumor 'borrowed' from a site that doesn't have the best track record about an attraction that IS coming to USH, but thus far (and likely) isn't coming to O-Town?

Would you like me to 'splain that a timeshare resort in Hawaii and a POSSIBLE hotel in D.C. have zero, zilch, nada to do with development at WDW and that, no, fans of WDW or theme parks really shouldn't be excited over something as mundane at timeshares to begin with?

Would you like me to point out that UNI is investing in its Florida parks in a big way while Disney is not?

Would you like me to point out that a decade-plus needed rehab of an ancient coaster at the MK is not in anyway equal to what UNI or BEC are doing?

Would you like me to agree with 'Bulb' about attractions like TT, EE and TSMM all lacking that special something? (I think they once called it the Disney Details)

Would you like me to point out that what is happening at DCA (and budgets are being cut left and right there as well) has no affect on the staleness of the four WDW parks?

Would you like me to point out that both EE and Mummy are nice rides, but both are lacking as well?

What would you like to discuss with me?

Careful what you say.... you could disturb 74 from his slumber and he will invade this thread too.

I fear all you have done is to awaken a sleeping giant, and fill him with a terrible resolve.

 

[tirian]

I'm not sure if you have looked at TMK's attendance recently but they don't *NEED* to refurb space mountain, or even add any additional rides for years. They could ride this out exactly as is and attendance will still be huge.

Great, then the attractions can all fall apart, more Guests can die like at DL's BTMRR, and attendance will still be huge. It's a win-win scenario.

Look at the dollars involved and sometimes it better explains why Disney does or doesn't do something. They are a for-profit company who answers to shareholders - and as far as the entertainment industry goes they are s__________g a lot less than their competition in this crappy economy.

Meanwhile, Guests can keep overflowing into the MK streets because there aren't enough attractions to handle the crowds in the world's most visited theme park.

I'm not a gloomy Negative Nellie and I frequently disagree with the people who are, but claiming that everything is okay as long as any company answers to its shareholders is utter nonsense. You don't run a business that way; it's the best method of stagnating and dying.

~Or should we use Circuit City, K-Mart, Service Merchandise, and every other non-innovative company as a business model?~

 

[Captain Chaos]

Disney vs. Universal threads are always entertaining, aren't they???

 

[Fun2BFree]

I'm not a gloomy Negative Nellie and I frequently disagree with the people who are, but claiming that everything is okay as long as any company answers to its shareholders is utter nonsense. You don't run a business that way; it's the best method of stagnating and dying.

As long as share prices rise and the parks maintain their popularity, Disney shouldn't have to answer to anyone. It's not a doomsday scenario for park attendance, and there have been so many new additions in the last decade that there is still plenty to do.

 

[tirian]

Or EPCOT Center? Their heads would have exploded.

Just imagine people who grew up with Walt, getting a wiff of EPCOT rumors and then being presented with...another theme park...

The carnage would have been glorious. :lol:

You're right about this. Fanboys do get upset when something doesn't meet their expectations, and this happens with everything, not just Disney.

Sadly, most of the WDW complaints are judging the resort against its old standards, not a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream—a fact which makes the complaints legitimate.

I look forward to the day when the P&R division has visionary executive leadership again, and WDW fanboy rants are nonsensical ramblings of people who need to grow up and accept the real world. But right now, many of the complaints are 100% accurate.

 

[T-1MILLION]

Honestly, the suspension of disbelief is key in theme park attractions. How are you shrunk in ITTBAB, or why are there five-foot tall mice, or how am I in the future, or why do we do inversions to get to an Aerosmith concert?

If one were to pick holes in theme-park concepts, nothing would make sense.

It is important to suspend disbelief but there is no creativity these days in an attraction like Toy Story Mania compared to that of old. And actually there are explanations (some subtle) to your plotholes.

-You are not Shrunk in Its Tough to be a Bug. The Tree of Life is a huge mystical piece of nature, therefore your average size bugs would be huge as well if they were to be inside the trunk(but it is true this was a rushed attraction but at least it makes sense)

5 foot tall mice? Mickey was always said to be about 5 feet tall or so. Walt humanized mickey, he was the average guy. Even had a dog who was a life sized dog, lived in a human sized house and his friends were human sized as well. That is why they are the height they are in the parks. There is a story to them.

Inversions to the Aresmith concert is the only valid polt hole in your defense. Loops in the dark add the thrill, but notice the guard rails and such leave when you go around a crazy roadway. You are beating traffic, rock'n'roll style.

Now I will be the first to admit that Hollywood, Rip, Ride, Rockit is a very cheap and lazy effort to get something new in because it ruins a lot of the parks other greatly themed areas and does not have its own story at all. It is a cheap gimmik coaster.


But other than that. Universal gets bashed so much by closed minded people. Half of which have never been so they really don't even know what they are talking about. It becomes a name calling type deal when so many of Universal attractions have been on par with Disney's. And as of the past ten years, many better.

 

[tirian]

As long as share prices rise and the parks maintain their popularity, Disney shouldn't have to answer to anyone. It's not a doomsday scenario for park attendance, and there have been so many new additions in the last decade that there is still plenty to do.

'tis true, but it's not an excuse for poor maintenance. That's my concern. I'm one of the most level-headed people on these boards (and so is WDW1974, believe it or not ), and I'd be satisfied if the MK attractions simply received decent refurbs and the company began building one new MK E-ticket during the recession. Those are things that should have been done years ago, not fanboy dreams.

Real-world facts (IMHO ):
Let DTD wait, because Guests aren't spending a lot of money anyway. Let the Studios ride the TSMM wave for a few years before adding the Monsters Inc. coaster, and have ST-2 ready to go by the end of 2010. Gut and rebuild the Imagination pavilion before touching WoL or UoE, and continue the rolling refurbs throughout Epcot. Prime DAK for its new land, but hold off until we're out of the recession.

The MK additions—refurbs that should have happened long ago anyway and a new E-ticket to absorb crowds—should be top priority right now.