Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[BobConnor]

Same thing happened to 20K in that is was hot, smelly, cramped and the audio seldom worked properly. Not only was it very uncomfortable, but it was boring as well. It ran for over 20 years and became an embarrassment in its last years. Thank goodness that WDW had the common sense to remove 20K.

When my sister took me to my first Disney World trip this past month she told me she HATED 20K! She went on it with her family and it was cramped, hot, boring and gave her claustophobia and a panic attack but her husband "let one out" and it was worse than Figment's stink could ever be!. To her, New Fantasyland was a good move on Disney's part.

 

[MinnieM123]

It's hard to rank the late, great Future World dark rides, but World of Motion definitely wasn't dull. It may not have been as innovative in terms of the ride vehicle or concept as Horizons or Imagination, but it was absolutely crammed full of wall-to-wall animatronics and Marc Davis gags. In that sense it felt very much in company with Davis masterpieces like the Haunted Mansion or Pirates, in style if not in quality. I understand why it had to go; EPCOT had about 2 mammoth dark rides too many and no thrill rides, and Test Track has proven to be a cornerstone of the park.

True, not a thrill ride, but I agree that WOM was certainly unique and fun. One of my favorite design elements was at the beginning—the Omnimover travelled outdoors, and then up the u-turn portico to the inside of the pavillion.

The entire ride was enjoyable. In particular, the "speed tunnels" added creative amusement, and I especially enjoyed the "future city" sequence towards the end.

Lastly, you could really immerse yourself in this attraction, partly due to the duration of the ride. (Newer rides seem to me to be much shorter in duration.)

 

[ford91exploder]

Same thing happened to 20K in that is was hot, smelly, cramped and the audio seldom worked properly. Not only was it very uncomfortable, but it was boring as well. It ran for over 20 years and became an embarrassment in its last years. Thank goodness that WDW had the common sense to remove 20K.

Its odd that one of the longest lines at DL is for the very same subs in a bright yellow finish, And DisneySea also has a sub ride, Guess nobody likes them...

 

[SJN1279]

Its odd that one of the longest lines at DL is for the very same subs in a bright yellow finish, And DisneySea also has a sub ride, Guess nobody likes them...

The reason the subs have such a long wait is due to their poor capacity. I remember before the Nemo subs were opening in Disneyland, Al Lutz was proclaiming it was going to be an attraction that guests would wait 3 hours for, only to run right back on line(after opening he grew strangely quiet on the matter). The ride itself is dull, cramped, and very slow moving and loading. I'm happy it is gone in WDW and we have a New Fantasyland that is very well themed.

 

[kap91]

The reason the subs have such a long wait is due to their poor capacity. I remember before the Nemo subs were opening in Disneyland, Al Lutz was proclaiming it was going to be an attraction that guests would wait 3 hours for, only to run right back on line(after opening he grew strangely quiet on the matter). The ride itself is dull, cramped, and very slow moving and loading. I'm happy it is gone in WDW and we have a New Fantasyland that is very well themed.

Well I like the Subs at Disneyland -incredibly unique ride and cool as well. I will agree on the capacity issues though. I'll be sad to see it leave when/if star wars comes along.

 

[Figments Friend]

No, when they put in Honey I Shrunk the Audience, they reworked the exterior flow of the pavilion in such a fashion that they drew people to the Magic Eye only and kept them from going to the ride and ImageWorks. This was never resolved when they replaced the ride so not only is the ride mediocre, but the pavilion is laid out so they don't realize there's even a ride back there.

Indeed.

I talked about this earlier in this thread...

From post #1738-

"Instead of entering the Pavilion as you normally would and begin with the ride first, it was roped off and Guests were told to enter into the Magic Eye theater instead first...completely bypassing the ride altogether.
Most who exited the theater missed the area where you were supposed to enter to ride the indoor Attraction...and the result was hardly anyone riding.
The sudden 'decline' shown on paper was the 'proof' certain parties needed to push their own agendas."

 

[Figments Friend]

Imagination 3.0 gets no lines because it sucks (it always has, almost no one has ever enjoyed the ride even from the moment version 2 opened). Imagination 1.0 on the other hand was confirmed by insiders here that in its later years its attendance was deliberately manipulated negatively by management so they'd have a statistical reason to present to executives in order to secure its demolition (they didn't want to pay to maintain it along with the other major E Tickets in Future World they also demolished). They strategically directed attention away from the ride and manipulated guests into thinking there wasn't a ride there at all. It was beloved by all and would not have suffered the attendance decline had Disney encouraged people to ride it and properly directed people towards it.

Yep.
Pretty much in a nutshell, right there.

It also has to be said that Omnimovers in general are fast loaders and 'eat up crowds' like crazy...which keeps line length down.
Not defending Imagination 3.0....just noting this in relation to the previous comments about lack of lines at past EPCOT attractions.

It would make me cranky when people would blame 'lack of long lines' at Horizons for the being the reason it was shuttered.
Horizons had insanely efficient capacity..resulting in little to no wait.

Part of the reason we see such long lines now for popular attractions is the capacity is not as efficient, or simply cannot be due to the nature of the slower loading nature of the ride vehicles ( TSMM and Soarin' for example ).

 

[Figments Friend]

I'd say Imagination was the most timeless and endearing of the Big 3 extinct Epcot attractions and indeed before the sabotage, wasn't it the most popular attraction in the park after Spaceship Earth? World of Motion is really dull from the videos I've seen and as fantastic as Horizons was, it probably could have used a couple of updates.

Yes, it was....and agree that it was indeed timeless.
Sure a few updates would have been needed ( mostly tech/operational ) but the settings, characters, and original score/dialog were just fine as is.

 

[Figments Friend]

True, not a thrill ride, but I agree that WOM was certainly unique and fun. One of my favorite design elements was at the beginning—the Omnimover travelled outdoors, and then up the u-turn portico to the inside of the pavillion.

The entire ride was enjoyable. In particular, the "speed tunnels" added creative amusement, and I especially enjoyed the "future city" sequence towards the end.

Lastly, you could really immerse yourself in this attraction, partly due to the duration of the ride. (Newer rides seem to me to be much shorter in duration.)

Going outside of the Pavilion on WoM was a great plus to the experience. Really gave you a sense of 'going somewhere', not to mention a unique view of SSE from a distance.
The 'speed tunnels' were a fun illusion. I remember looking down at the floor and noting how slowly the vehicles were actually moving in comparison to the perceived speed caused by the film footage.

Oooohhh....'Centercore'....! LOVED that element.
I loved that black-light infused city of the future for the finale to WoM. The music in that room was great, too.
The little 'bullet cars' of the future you saw yourself depart inside of in the final scene was a cool moment too.

And let's not forget about the TransCenter...with all those fabulous futuristic vehicles.
I look at those photos today of those displays and for the most part it STILL looks futuristic.

 

[jdmdisney99]

Yes, it was....and agree that it was indeed timeless.
Sure a few updates would have been needed ( mostly tech/operational ) but the settings, characters, and original score/dialog were just fine as is.

Exactly. A good Future World is one so whimsical, yet realistic and futuristic that we believe that future will come, but it doesn't come immediately. Any time an appliance or prop comes to realization (I'm looking at you video game grandma on CoP) it should be immediately replaced with a new fantastical prop.

 

[CDavid]

It would make me cranky when people would blame 'lack of long lines' at Horizons for the being the reason it was shuttered.
Horizons had insanely efficient capacity..resulting in little to no wait.

Part of the reason we see such long lines now for popular attractions is the capacity is not as efficient, or simply cannot be due to the nature of the slower loading nature of the ride vehicles ( TSMM and Soarin' for example ).

Yet we see people on these boards - some of whom ought to know better - claiming a dramatic drop in popularity for World of Motion, Horizons, and the original Imagination solely because the attractions were walk-on or had a minimal wait. Of course, the reality is that all three will carry the exact same number of guests hourly whether they are a walk-on or have a two hour wait, so long as every seat is filled. You cannot base an attractions popularity on queue line length.

Horizons, in particular, would look the same from the outside if it were running at 100% capacity or nearly empty (any queue being indoors). There was no gift shop (unbelievable!), dining, or other exhibits - people went in, rode, and left immediately, so there were never really many people hanging around. Indeed, the place could look closed even when it were relatively busy (which potentially undermined ridership, both from those assuming it was closed, and on the theory that crowds attract crowds, with the inverse also true). Short of access to Disney's own records, or maybe if someone had sat outside counting the people going in over a several hour period (at a minimum), there's really no way to determine Horizons 'popularity' in the final years.

Of course, the truth is that any and all attractions grow stale eventually (some remain popular as 'classics', of course), and require refurbishment and updates. This is even more critical for attractions based on the future, and such work was indeed planned for Horizons. We don't know if an updated Horizons (or Motion and Imagination) would have been more or less popular today than the attractions which replaced them. However, one thing we do know is the tremendous hourly capacity of an omnimover attraction; Even a slightly stale omnimover can easily see more guests in a day than a "more popular", lower-capacity attraction.

 

[flynnibus]

Yet we see people on these boards - some of whom ought to know better - claiming a dramatic drop in popularity for World of Motion, Horizons, and the original Imagination solely because the attractions were walk-on or had a minimal wait. Of course, the reality is that all three will carry the exact same number of guests hourly whether they are a walk-on or have a two hour wait, so long as every seat is filled. You cannot base an attractions popularity on queue line length.

Horizons, in particular, would look the same from the outside if it were running at 100% capacity or nearly empty (any queue being indoors). There was no gift shop (unbelievable!), dining, or other exhibits - people went in, rode, and left immediately, so there were never really many people hanging around. Indeed, the place could look closed even when it were relatively busy (which potentially undermined ridership, both from those assuming it was closed, and on the theory that crowds attract crowds, with the inverse also true). Short of access to Disney's own records, or maybe if someone had sat outside counting the people going in over a several hour period (at a minimum), there's really no way to determine Horizons 'popularity' in the final years.

The people didn't teleport in... or out. When it was busy you'd have a steady stream of people heading in and out.. and people lingering as they assemble their party, etc. All of these original FW attractions had long open walkways heading up to the pavilion. When that area is desolate... the attractions are empty too.. for the exact reason you mentioned... people were dumped out of the pavilions with no place to linger (sans WoM).

Yes omni-movers have steady capacity - but when the demand is far less than capacity.. the attraction is under utilized and under serving. Disney didn't measure success based on how quickly people loaded, but on the volume of people riding. And it was down.

The 70s and 80s dated quickly. EPCOT needed that reboot in the early nineties... just the direction Disney took is not well liked by many.

 

[ford91exploder]

The reason the subs have such a long wait is due to their poor capacity. I remember before the Nemo subs were opening in Disneyland, Al Lutz was proclaiming it was going to be an attraction that guests would wait 3 hours for, only to run right back on line(after opening he grew strangely quiet on the matter). The ride itself is dull, cramped, and very slow moving and loading. I'm happy it is gone in WDW and we have a New Fantasyland that is very well themed.

Which supports my argument, There is less ride capacity than demand - if it was NOT popular there would not be a line see Imagination v3.0 vs TSMM

 

[RSoxNo1]

In case anyone hasn't seen this, enjoy: http://journeybackintoimagination.blogspot.com/p/simulation.html

 

[Wikkler]

an update to a ride I always enjoy.

Be careful what you wish for.

HI IM OLAF AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU NORWAY'S TROLLS
HERE'S A TROLL
HERE'S SOME OIL RIGS, OH NO IT'S THE SNOW QUEEN OH WAIT SHE'S NICE NEVERMIND

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Be careful what you wish for.
HI IM OLAF AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU NORWAY'S TROLLS
HERE'S A TROLL
HERE'S SOME OIL RIGS, OH NO IT'S THE SNOW QUEEN OH WAIT SHE'S NICE NEVERMIND

You are too generous - let's be a bit more realistic:

Going up the ramp - "You are not the first to pass this way -- Hi everyone, I'm Olaf and I've been here"

"Those of you who seek the spirit of Norway face peril and adventure" and suddenly something steals Olaf's nose.

Men on Viking boat "No, vee have not seen his nose".

Trolls pop up and one has a carrot in his hand.

Large polar bear has carrot in his mouth.

Troll holding carrot by waterfall.

Lightning strike on giant oil platform that looks like giant carrot.

"Norway's spirit has always been adventure". Olaf is sitting in little Norway village with his nose restored.

"It was all a bad dream folks".

Exit through shop filled with unsold trinkets from Frozen.

The End

 

[jensenrick]

Add me to the list.
We saw TR when my boys were younger. They loved it.
I saw Nemo for the first time this year - without my boys. I can't imagine they would have liked it at all.
IMO, Tarzan Rocks had more cross-over appeal. Both boys and girls seemed to enjoy it equally. Nemo is not that appealing to teenaged boys or young men.

Add me to the list too! I loved Tarzan Rocks, and saw it everytime we went to AK. I can't believe it had to go- it was PACKED at every showing I ever saw. Can the Nemo show say that? Even had an awesome t-shirt from TR that got thrown out when it was stained, assuming I could always get a replacement. Now it's gone for good, and it's a damn shame, especially since it was replaced by the crapfest "musical" that they turned Nemo into.

 

[jensenrick]

People also hated having just one empty building in Epcot, but that didn't change anything.

Exactly! I've hated having that Adventureland restaurant closed for YEArs, no one at TDO gives a flip, and I doubt they would be too concerned about closing yet ANOTHER pavilion at Epcot- that is until it starts to be reflected in gate receipts.
Additionally, I have doubts about your theory that they took the Epcot Wand down because people "threw a fit"- more likely they just got tired of maintaining what was supposed to be a temp structure anyway.

 

[Zweiland]

Exactly! I've hated having that Adventureland restaurant closed for YEArs, no one at TDO gives a flip, and I doubt they would be too concerned about closing yet ANOTHER pavilion at Epcot- that is until it starts to be reflected in gate receipts.
Additionally, I have doubts about your theory that they took the Epcot Wand down because people "threw a fit"- more likely they just got tired of maintaining what was supposed to be a temp structure anyway.

Are you talking to me in the second part of your post? I don't remember having a theory like that.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Additionally, I have doubts about your theory that they took the Epcot Wand down because people "threw a fit"- more likely they just got tired of maintaining what was supposed to be a temp structure anyway.

No, I don't think it was a "public fit" that changed that but I think that Siemens had a hand in its departure. MHO!