Two coasts: One very different world

[comics101]

Walking from the hotel to the esplanade is walking along the center line of the property. I sure hope the views weren't distracting for you from there... Where you are talking about is not the area under discussion.

I understand, but I don't recall seeing any other off-property area while at the resort. I suppose I remember seeing a castle-like hotel for a few seconds while on the monorail, but it just didn't seem that intrusive. Idk, I suppose like others are saying, to each his own, but it seems to me you had to look for things from the outside world while on property. I'm not talking about the parks, although I don't remember seeing Harbor from Splash Mtn, which to me shows that Disney really has gone out of its way to ensure that nothing from the outside influences the magic at DL.

You can chose to shut it out.. but you can't ignore what the view from Paradise Pier is like.. or any of the height rides on property.

I mean come on.. the roller coaster has sound panels on it for crying out loud because it overlooks the outter edge of the property.. and they didn't even ATTEMPT a berm or visual boundry around DCA. They just left it. Of course Carsland tries to address that in it's own way, but that is only one side of the park.. the Katella/Disney Way side of the park is still pretty much a visual mess.

Here I agree with you, although the only places I remember seeing any of the outside world was while on the Fun Wheel and Screamin'. And I do think it's a shame. It seems to me that Disney is attempting to fix this though (Carsland acts like a berm for a good portion of the park) and I'm sure that at some point in the future Paradise Pier will recieve a proper berm as well...starting with a turn of the century boardwalk hotel please!

 

[JustChillinBro]

As far as Casey making people too wet, I can assure that there are far more, far wetter people at the parks just about every day via rain/storms. Thousands of people were walking around Magic Kingdom absolutely soaked today.

As far as Casey being a "pee zone," I don't think kids are any more likely to urinate in a water area than they are anywhere else. There may be a study indicating otherwise.

As far as whether Casey "belongs in a Disney World theme park," I don't think any words will change our minds. It's just fine by me. I don't think I'll ever actually go in it. But the amount of "hate" for a water play area is ridiculous. It was a water play area before. And there are similar water play areas at Epcot and Downtown Disney. I couldn't tell you if the Epcot ones opened with/near Epcot's opening.

About Cars Land, it's already breaking. I think Racers has broken down every day for at least 30 minutes. It is down right now, for example via https://twitter.com/TouringPlans/status/216316082284265472. Sorry it's Twitter. I know you guys hate that. If this was Walt Disney World, you would be going off nonstop about the "maintenance" and how they "can't even get a new ride operating correctly."

Luigi's Flying Tires has a miserable capacity with 90+ minute waits even with relatively few people in line. It also broke down yesterday for over an hour, among other breakdowns.

I doubt anyone would be wowed by Mater's Junkyard Jamboree if it was built in Hollywood Studios instead of as part of Cars Land.

Disneyland has a ton of "show" problems as well. Also as minor as anything listed here, save for potentially the Yeti. I can't name any of them, but they certainly exist.

 

[comics101]

It doesn't seem like Walt Disney had this huge, aching problem with it, since he first wanted to build Disneyland in Burbank next to his studios, which wasn't isolated either. Yes, he wanted more space and he didn't want outsiders looking into his park. But the man still enjoyed it. That's my point. Don't let the Mickey Ds across the street and the freeway get in the way of your experience. That's all I'm trying to say.

I do think Walt was worried about the outside world intruding on the magic, but I don't think that's an argument one can make today when discussing sight lines at DLR.

Walt didn't buy the Florida property in order to build an expanded resort with lots of theme parks, he wanted to build his utopia. I'm no expert on Walt Disney, but from the little I've read about him, he seemed to have major ADD, and by the time Walt was buying land for the FLA Project, he became bored with theme parks, and had a bigger and better mission to accomplish. In fact, didn't Roy O. have to convince him to build the Resort area before E.P.C.O.T. in order to get some extra funding for the place? (I could be entirely wrong on that point, anyone know if that's true?)

The point is, if Walt simply wanted to expand DL into a resort with multiple theme parks, I have a feeling he would have done exactly what TWDC did in the late-80's/early-90's; buy out the surrounding areas and play politics in order to beautify Anaheim. Why go through all of the trouble of starting over when what's already built is the best?

 

[Clever Name]

I always enjoy the last scene in Soarin’ Over California. It is night and we’re flying over a city freeway that is choked for miles with multiple lanes of heavy traffic. There are red tail lights as far as the eye can see! Suddenly, we fly over Disneyland and we see the fireworks explode into Mickey Ears over Sleeping Beauty Castle. It’s such a spectacular finish! However, I can’t help but think of those poor people still stuck in their cars on the freeway. People from southern California take it all in stride because to them, massive traffic gridlock is the norm at any hour of the day or night.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I always enjoy the last scene in Soarin’ Over California. It is night and we’re flying over a city freeway that is choked for miles with multiple lanes of heavy traffic. There are red tail lights as far as the eye can see! Suddenly, we fly over Disneyland and we see the fireworks explode into Mickey Ears over Sleeping Beauty Castle. It’s such a spectacular finish! However, I can’t help but think of those poor people still stuck in their cars on the freeway. People from southern California take it all in stride because to them, massive traffic gridlock is the norm at any hour of the day or night.

Yeah and that city is one of the most important cities to this country. Notice that the company didn't bother to make a Soarin' Over Florida video for WDW. Hhmm. Why are you worried about California? You can keep hating, while California and Disneyland continues to shine.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I do think Walt was worried about the outside world intruding on the magic, but I don't think that's an argument one can make today when discussing sight lines at DLR.

Walt didn't buy the Florida property in order to build an expanded resort with lots of theme parks, he wanted to build his utopia. I'm no expert on Walt Disney, but from the little I've read about him, he seemed to have major ADD, and by the time Walt was buying land for the FLA Project, he became bored with theme parks, and had a bigger and better mission to accomplish. In fact, didn't Roy O. have to convince him to build the Resort area before E.P.C.O.T. in order to get some extra funding for the place? (I could be entirely wrong on that point, anyone know if that's true?)

The point is, if Walt simply wanted to expand DL into a resort with multiple theme parks, I have a feeling he would have done exactly what TWDC did in the late-80's/early-90's; buy out the surrounding areas and play politics in order to beautify Anaheim. Why go through all of the trouble of starting over when what's already built is the best?

Frankly, I don't think anything we say will do anything. You and I will continue to enjoy our lovely trips to Disneyland and we'll worry more about which attraction we should hit up next and worry less about a freeway.

 

[cheezbat]

WDW is great in size, but it can be quite distracting having to take a bus or monorail or car just to park hop. I love that the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom really keep the outside world hidden - for the most part.

Still, Disneyland is quite an amazing park/resort and it's awesome to see all theyve been able to do on their tiny 500 acre plot of land...in comparison to WDWs 47 square miles.

 

[Clever Name]

WDW is great in size, but it can be quite distracting having to take a bus or monorail or car just to park hop. I love that the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom really keep the outside world hidden - for the most part.

Still, Disneyland is quite an amazing park/resort and it's awesome to see all theyve been able to do on their tiny 500 acre plot of land...in comparison to WDWs 47 square miles.

You’re so right. Disneyland was the prototype that served as a model for all other Disney theme parks. Walt made a number of mistakes with Disneyland and he learned from those mistakes. He died before Disneyland east was constructed but most of the problems that concerned Walt with Disneyland were corrected in the construction of MK. The many flaws in Disneyland will never be corrected but it serves as an example of how not to make the same mistakes again. Had it not been for DL, the MK would have been just as bad and the same mistakes repeated.

 

[culturenthrills]

I was just kidding (I really miss my old stable of smileys ... they have some awesome ones on the DISBOARDS!) ... I think I've joined my last Disney fan forum. I can't stand to go into yet another church and tell the members they're worshipping a false god.

That has to be one of your best lines ever.

 

[spacemt354]

Yeah and that city is one of the most important cities to this country. Notice that the company didn't bother to make a Soarin' Over Florida video for WDW. Hhmm. Why are you worried about California? You can keep hating, while California and Disneyland continues to shine.

They didn't design a Soarin' Over Florida video for wdw because nobody wants to look at swamps and retirement homes on an attraction. California makes for a more interesting ride, showing off eclectic scenery and "The Land," which is why the company kept it the same. And I don't know where the hate was? It was just a simple fact that LA has some of the worst traffic jams in the country.

 

[Californian Elitist]

They didn't design a Soarin' Over Florida video for wdw because nobody wants to look at swamps and retirement homes on an attraction. California makes for a more interesting ride, showing off eclectic scenery and "The Land," which is why the company kept it the same. And I don't know where the hate was? It was just a simple fact that LA has some of the worst traffic jams in the country.

Exactly. That was my point, California has a lot of scenery. Go back and read the other posts from the poster and you'll see. When I say hate, I don't always mean it literally. This poster was "hating" in the fact that he just kept talking mess and nonsense and saying ignorant things about Disneyland and California and I didn't appreciate that.

 

[bubbles1812]

Just because it was envisioned doesn't mean it's going to happen or was even really being considered. All future plans have always been elabrate, that is nothing new. Imagineer's are dreamers and they dream big when they pitch a project, however that doesn't mean it's going to see the light of day or was even really being considered. Personally if that were true i'm glad it did get slashed. That kind of expansion isn't needed right now for Magic Kingdom Park. Other parks are more in need of expansion. I think what we are getting is fine and will be welcomed and enjoyed by all guest.

You are honestly glad a project like that got slashed? That's a bit unbelievable to me. I actually do agree other parks needed it more. And If there were any plans in the works for say DHS where they were saying well, "we are going to cut this 800 million project to 300 million because we want to start on a massive overhaul of DHS like it sorely needs"...then I probably would have said ok, that is fairly justifiable. Only so much money and not an unlimited amount in the pot. The problem is they aren't. And the one project they do have going (Avatar) seems to be moving through development at the speed of snail so they probably could have justified the spending on the whole NFE project and still been ok. But even regardless of that, Avatar's budget is also getting slashed.

You also stated that you're sure what we are getting will be welcomed and enjoyed (I agree on that to a degree) and that it is "Fine"...I too think it will be "fine"...but "fine" is not what I've (or at least used to) come to expect from Disney

 

[cslafferty]

I see WDW and DL/DCA as siblings - same parents; many similarities; two distinct personalities. And, just like I would never rate one of my children better/worse than the other, so goes the Disney parks. DL/DCA is "magic" smack dab in the middle of one of America's busiest, most exciting cities, and WDW is where one can truly leave the hustle and bustle of city life behind and become engulfed in the "magic". My dad used to live in Anaheim, so we would go visit him and get our DL fix every Feb., and go to WDW every summer. We all felt the same way - we loved both parks for different reasons. Since he passed in 2005, we've only been back to CA once in 2006. I miss it, and would like to get back there someday soon to see everything new, but prefer the feeling of "getting away from it all" that I get when I'm in WDW. That's my personal feeling - not right or wrong.

I don't understand the constant need by some to say that one is better than the other, or whine that one is getting more attention than the other - like a jealous child. Maybe its because I live in Michigan and neither park is close, but for me it's simple: Feel like DL is better, gotten more attention, bigger/better attractions? Go to CA. Like WDW, excited about FLE, love the feeling of getting away from the rat race? Go to FL. Don't like what's going on with Disney in general? Go to Universal, Legoland, Sea World, Bush Gardens, or any of the others that will gladly take your money. That'll free up the lines for the rest of us.

 

[spacemt354]

I see WDW and DL/DCA as siblings - same parents; many similarities; two distinct personalities. And, just like I would never rate one of my children better/worse than the other, so goes the Disney parks. DL/DCA is "magic" smack dab in the middle of one of America's busiest, most exciting cities, and WDW is where one can truly leave the hustle and bustle of city life behind and become engulfed in the "magic". My dad used to live in Anaheim, so we would go visit him and get our DL fix every Feb., and go to WDW every summer. We all felt the same way - we loved both parks for different reasons. Since he passed in 2005, we've only been back to CA once in 2006. I miss it, and would like to get back there someday soon to see everything new, but prefer the feeling of "getting away from it all" that I get when I'm in WDW. That's my personal feeling - not right or wrong.

I don't understand the constant need by some to say that one is better than the other, or whine that one is getting more attention than the other - like a jealous child. Maybe its because I live in Michigan and neither park is close, but for me it's simple: Feel like DL is better, gotten more attention, bigger/better attractions? Go to CA. Like WDW, excited about FLE, love the feeling of getting away from the rat race? Go to FL. Don't like what's going on with Disney in general? Go to Universal, Legoland, Sea World, Bush Gardens, or any of the others that will gladly take your money. That'll free up the lines for the rest of us.

This is the best comment I have heard so far. It is so true. WDW and DL are siblings, coming from the same parents, with two very distinct personalities. Disneyland is a more of a locals park. It gives most people a break from the fast-paced urban enviornment in Southern California, while Disney World offers a complete vacation destination in an entirely different setting. Just because DCA gets a huge (needed) expansion, doesn't make it better than WDW. Alot of people on this forum make remarks showing their bias towards either DL or WDW. That's completely understandable. Since I've been to WDW a lot more than I have been to DL, I have a nostalgia with WDW that allows me see the positives in everything that happens down there. But that doesn't mean I'm going to bash DL because I go to the park that is closer to where I live. So DCA got a well needed upgrade to their park. Good for them. Does that mean that WDW has to now build Carsland type addition in order to "compete" with DL. Absolutely not. They are both on the same team, so why would they be battling one another? Disneyland does not have the luxury of space that WDW has, which was why Walt Disney himself wanted to go to Florida, because he had as he called it, "the blessing of size." Both coasts are going to grow and evolve on their own. This whole topic began because the original poster was comparing the Casey Jr. Water play area to the huge expansion in DCA, claiming that it's not hard to see that things are different in WDW. Yeah, they are different. WDW is as much about the theme parks as it is for relaxation, dining, sports, and the complete vacation experience. DL is more about the parks from what I have seen. It doesn't have a wide-world of sports complex. It doesn't have 24 disney owned resorts on its property. It doesn't have pga tour golf courses. I can go on and on... They are two different worlds for two different purposes coming from the same common origin, Walt Disney himself. Bashing WDW for over-hyping a water play area isn't necessary, and it's also incomplete. It is a singular phase in a multi-step expansion process. It is not the only addition coming to the MK. And people are interested in it because it is an addition, (however small), to the most popular theme park in the world. If people feel that one coast is better than another, that's no problem. But don't devalue the other coast and the people who enjoy it, because it's all part of the same family.

 

[WDW1974]

You’re so right. Disneyland was the prototype that served as a model for all other Disney theme parks. Walt made a number of mistakes with Disneyland and he learned from those mistakes. He died before Disneyland east was constructed but most of the problems that concerned Walt with Disneyland were corrected in the construction of MK. The many flaws in Disneyland will never be corrected but it serves as an example of how not to make the same mistakes again. Had it not been for DL, the MK would have been just as bad and the same mistakes repeated.

I like this post. ... It's one of those baiting 'DL was a mistake and they fixed it all at the MK, what's wrong with all of you who complain about it having the warmth of a Central FLA outlet mall?' types ... and designed to turn the thread into a WDW vs. DL deal. Wow, how clever.

While the city encoraching on DL was always a concern of Old Dead Guy Walt, DL always had something special ... a Spirit that even in its best days, the MK, lacked. A friend's wife (who has been to both multiple times but is in no way a Disney nut) summed it better than I have by terming the MK 'a mass market charicture of DL' ... I obviously agree.

Worse, for a park that had a lack of a lot of that MAGIC that DL got out of necessity, from having things on top of each other, the MK has steadily lost much of its charm in the last 15 years as it has had walkways expanded, attractions, shops and dining locales shuttered, entertainment cut, trees butchered etc.

I am sure glad that they never were able to 'fix' DL. Millions and millions of people probably agree with me.

 

[WDW1974]

That has to be one of your best lines ever.

Thanks.

I rather like it myself.

It does sum up the online fan community as a whole, doesn't it?

Sorta like going into a loud bar on a Friday night and trying to convince the patrons that the booze isn't good for them. Not an easy task!

 

[WDW1974]

You are honestly glad a project like that got slashed? That's a bit unbelievable to me. I actually do agree other parks needed it more. And If there were any plans in the works for say DHS where they were saying well, "we are going to cut this 800 million project to 300 million because we want to start on a massive overhaul of DHS like it sorely needs"...then I probably would have said ok, that is fairly justifiable. Only so much money and not an unlimited amount in the pot. The problem is they aren't. And the one project they do have going (Avatar) seems to be moving through development at the speed of snail so they probably could have justified the spending on the whole NFE project and still been ok. But even regardless of that, Avatar's budget is also getting slashed.

You also stated that you're sure what we are getting will be welcomed and enjoyed (I agree on that to a degree) and that it is "Fine"...I too think it will be "fine"...but "fine" is not what I've (or at least used to) come to expect from Disney

Fine?

We've gotten to the point where WDW 'fans' will defend poorly designed fountains and spinners and new queues as some how things we should all be happy about, while the World and the Disney Legacy crumble in the FLA heat and humidity.

I've said this many times before, but last summer I had an interesting meeting with a 'celeb' Imagineer at the DLH and we talked about why WDW was in the shape it was in and didn't get anything but the bare mimimum of investment, while Disney spent at its other resorts. While management took a hit, said Imagineer said that the biggest obstacle standing in the way of real positive change in O-Town were WDW's 'fans' ... the ones who will defend anything.

Being a fan doesn't mean mindless devotion to a park, company or BRAND. You are a consumer first.

If you think Storybook Circus represents the best in themed entertainment, then I'd suggest you just open your eyes and look around at what else is out there.

 

[WDW1974]

This is the best comment I have heard so far. It is so true. WDW and DL are siblings, coming from the same parents, with two very distinct personalities. Disneyland is a more of a locals park. It gives most people a break from the fast-paced urban enviornment in Southern California, while Disney World offers a complete vacation destination in an entirely different setting. Just because DCA gets a huge (needed) expansion, doesn't make it better than WDW. Alot of people on this forum make remarks showing their bias towards either DL or WDW. That's completely understandable. Since I've been to WDW a lot more than I have been to DL, I have a nostalgia with WDW that allows me see the positives in everything that happens down there. But that doesn't mean I'm going to bash DL because I go to the park that is closer to where I live. So DCA got a well needed upgrade to their park. Good for them. Does that mean that WDW has to now build Carsland type addition in order to "compete" with DL. Absolutely not. They are both on the same team, so why would they be battling one another? Disneyland does not have the luxury of space that WDW has, which was why Walt Disney himself wanted to go to Florida, because he had as he called it, "the blessing of size." Both coasts are going to grow and evolve on their own. This whole topic began because the original poster was comparing the Casey Jr. Water play area to the huge expansion in DCA, claiming that it's not hard to see that things are different in WDW. Yeah, they are different. WDW is as much about the theme parks as it is for relaxation, dining, sports, and the complete vacation experience. DL is more about the parks from what I have seen. It doesn't have a wide-world of sports complex. It doesn't have 24 disney owned resorts on its property. It doesn't have pga tour golf courses. I can go on and on... They are two different worlds for two different purposes coming from the same common origin, Walt Disney himself. Bashing WDW for over-hyping a water play area isn't necessary, and it's also incomplete. It is a singular phase in a multi-step expansion process. It is not the only addition coming to the MK. And people are interested in it because it is an addition, (however small), to the most popular theme park in the world. If people feel that one coast is better than another, that's no problem. But don't devalue the other coast and the people who enjoy it, because it's all part of the same family.

Was gonna let someone else take this, but since I am waiting here ... let's tackle those comments I bolded:

1.) That is an excuse that isn't really accurate regarding DLR that is often used to justify bad management decisions in Florida ... tell that to the 45% of DL visitors who don't live in the HUGE area defined as 'local' and, indeed, come from all over the world ... and have since 1955;

2.) Self owned nostalgia is simply your memories. It means you are allowing past 'good times' to cloud your view of present realities because you choose to ''see the positives'';

3.) No, it was in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s. Now, it's about selling real estate and timeshares. And when's the last time you played a round of golf? How about go horseback riding? Bike around FW? Rent a boat on the SSL? Spend a day at the spa? ... And I wonder how many posters here ever do any of the above versus riding Space Mountain 21 times in a week. Most fanbois' vacation is theme parks, theme parks and, oh yeah, theme parks;

4.) Yeah, about that popularity deal ... more people shop at Walmart and eat at McDonald's etc.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And when's the last time you played a round of golf? How about go horseback riding? Bike around FW? Rent a boat on the SSL? Spend a day at the spa? ... And I wonder how many posters here ever do any of the above versus riding Space Mountain 21 times in a week. Most fanbois' vacation is theme parks, theme parks and, oh yeah, theme parks;

It's true for me, but that's because if I wanted to do anything else you've listed I'd go somewhere else that's a)cheaper and b)better suited for that activity. I go to WDW for the parks (3 of them) because they are much more unique, and therefore, worth doing IMO. But it's why I prefer DLR because it has 2 theme parks that, combined, are better than the 3 at WDW worth doing. All that talk of everything else at WDW is just "filler" for me. It's also why going for a week long vacation to just WDW (and not the rest of Orlando area) isn't so appealing to me anymore.

 

[spacemt354]

Was gonna let someone else take this, but since I am waiting here ... let's tackle those comments I bolded:

1.) That is an excuse that isn't really accurate regarding DLR that is often used to justify bad management decisions in Florida ... tell that to the 45% of DL visitors who don't live in the HUGE area defined as 'local' and, indeed, come from all over the world ... and have since 1955;

2.) Self owned nostalgia is simply your memories. It means you are allowing past 'good times' to cloud your view of present realities because you choose to ''see the positives'';

3.) No, it was in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s. Now, it's about selling real estate and timeshares. And when's the last time you played a round of golf? How about go horseback riding? Bike around FW? Rent a boat on the SSL? Spend a day at the spa? ... And I wonder how many posters here ever do any of the above versus riding Space Mountain 21 times in a week. Most fanbois' vacation is theme parks, theme parks and, oh yeah, theme parks;

4.) Yeah, about that popularity deal ... more people shop at Walmart and eat at McDonald's etc.

1. If you actually read what I wrote with an open mind rather than your warped views, you would have seen that I said it is "more of a locals park" never said it was entirely local.
2. Again wrong. But you will have your opinions and I will continue to travel to the place that still produces the greatest memories of my life.

3. I actually play golf everytime I go down there. And I rent boats as well. And i do many other things that are unique to wdw. See I actually take advantage of all that wdw has to offer. And if you saw my username, you could infer that my favorite ride in wdw is space mountain. So yes I ride it a lot when I go down, but I have gone down to the world enough to know that Disney world is not all about the theme parks.
4. If you don't like it, then don't go to Disney world. Its that simple.