Lee
Adventurer
Exactly right. DHS is hurting for good, kid-friendly rides. No surprise TSM gets the lines it does.
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Two coasts: One very different world
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmm... http://www.theneverlandfiles.com/tnf/disneyworld/greatmuppetmovieride.php Will this ever get built? Also, were they at a point in the ride's development where they had an estimate for the hourly capacity?
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
I'll try to make this point across more....interesting with the help of the film "Network".
I don' t need to tell you things are bad. Many fanboys and sweatshirt moms know things are bad.
It's 2012!
Everybody's talking about DCA, or wondering if the FLE will hold up.
A WDW one day one park ticket costs nearly $100 now. The monorails are going bust. Cast Members are dealing with an increase in rude guests. Xpass is running wild and there's nobody anywhere that seems to know what to do with it...THERE'S NO END TO IT!
We know the bulbs are broken and many facilities are closed and that the food and merchandise is not up to par and we sit and read blogs that said today we saw a dumbo spinner open and some shingles be placed on a cottage as if that's the way it's supposed to be! We know things are bad. They're crazy! It's like everything at Walt Disney World is crazy and that it's not living up to the expectations and quality it used to be. So we don't think about it anymore. It's as if "the world" is getting smaller and losing itself and we sit at our desks and say "please at least leave us alone at our desk, just give us our DVC and another chance to see the same illuminations show from 2000!" WELL I'M NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU ALONE! I WANT YOU TO GET MAD!
I don't want you to strap yourself to the carousel of progress, I don't want you to write or call Bob or Meg because I wouldn't no what to tell you to say. I don't know what to do about the uncessary DVC expansion or the price hikes with less new things to offer or the fact that Epcot hasn't had a new country since the Reagan administration or that we haven't had a substantial new attraction since E:E, which itself is broken and the only recent things we've gotten are either refurbished attractions or clones. All I know is first, you've got to get mad!
You've got to say I'M A FANBOY GOD DAMNIT, MY MONEY HAS VALUE!
So...I want you to get up now from your computer and stop hugging all your plush and ephemera.
I want you to stop renewing your WDW AP and spending all your money at WDW and do what I and other fanboys have done by bugeting our money and are instead going to other Disney resorts, whether it be CA or Paris or in Asia and see for yourself what real Disney quality is and how sad things have gotten at WDW, where they only care about catering to the average guest and the pixie dust fanboys...the two time visitor and the fan that thinks 10 year old fireworks shows and hotel expansion pads are dandy.
Come on, I want you to get up and say I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M GOING TO A DIFFERENT DISNEY RESORT.
I don' t need to tell you things are bad. Many fanboys and sweatshirt moms know things are bad.
It's 2012!
Everybody's talking about DCA, or wondering if the FLE will hold up.
A WDW one day one park ticket costs nearly $100 now. The monorails are going bust. Cast Members are dealing with an increase in rude guests. Xpass is running wild and there's nobody anywhere that seems to know what to do with it...THERE'S NO END TO IT!
We know the bulbs are broken and many facilities are closed and that the food and merchandise is not up to par and we sit and read blogs that said today we saw a dumbo spinner open and some shingles be placed on a cottage as if that's the way it's supposed to be! We know things are bad. They're crazy! It's like everything at Walt Disney World is crazy and that it's not living up to the expectations and quality it used to be. So we don't think about it anymore. It's as if "the world" is getting smaller and losing itself and we sit at our desks and say "please at least leave us alone at our desk, just give us our DVC and another chance to see the same illuminations show from 2000!" WELL I'M NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU ALONE! I WANT YOU TO GET MAD!
I don't want you to strap yourself to the carousel of progress, I don't want you to write or call Bob or Meg because I wouldn't no what to tell you to say. I don't know what to do about the uncessary DVC expansion or the price hikes with less new things to offer or the fact that Epcot hasn't had a new country since the Reagan administration or that we haven't had a substantial new attraction since E:E, which itself is broken and the only recent things we've gotten are either refurbished attractions or clones. All I know is first, you've got to get mad!
You've got to say I'M A FANBOY GOD DAMNIT, MY MONEY HAS VALUE!
So...I want you to get up now from your computer and stop hugging all your plush and ephemera.
I want you to stop renewing your WDW AP and spending all your money at WDW and do what I and other fanboys have done by bugeting our money and are instead going to other Disney resorts, whether it be CA or Paris or in Asia and see for yourself what real Disney quality is and how sad things have gotten at WDW, where they only care about catering to the average guest and the pixie dust fanboys...the two time visitor and the fan that thinks 10 year old fireworks shows and hotel expansion pads are dandy.
Come on, I want you to get up and say I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M GOING TO A DIFFERENT DISNEY RESORT.
rudyjr13
Well-Known Member
Come on, that's your argument? Taking that quote litterally is not realistic. Taking that quote to say that is the reason why me as a 32 year old can have just as much fun as my 3 year old at WDW is why I am willing to spend a few grand to spend a week there. Overall that sentiment by Walt remains true. To use it against a single tiny small part of a subdivision of an expanded Land just doesn't make sense to me. My 3 year old would hate sitting at a fancy dinner at Narcoosees, does that mean it should be closed when my wife and I love eating there?
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
WOW!!! Your post gave me goosebumps. This is exactly how some of us feel and we are doing something about it. I haven't spent a dime at WDW in probably 5 years.
Meanwhile down the street at Universal I'm once again hearing talk of another attraction to go between MIB and Simpsons, the new attraction to replace Herc/Xena, the Kidzone project - all on top of Potter phase 2! Somebody is getting serious about success in Orlando and it cerainly isn't Disney!
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Whylightbulb, any word on the Shrek meet and greet going bye bye??? I understand Monday is the last day those characters will be out and about doing MGs in their area...
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
It's entirely anecdotal of course, but I get the distinct impression from other guests that they genuinely love both rides. Most leave on a definite high.
People don't care about any 'objective' quality, or innovation, or tech specs. They care about the fun they have. To criticise TSMM as a glorified Wii game is akin to jazz fusion lovers rubbishing a pop song for merely having three chords. Sure, one is more 'musically accomplished', but the audience at large prefers the fun energetic pop song.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
I have not been pulled on this project (yet?) so I haven't heard anything specific about the M&G. I can tell you they are moving FAST!
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Awesome... I read that elsewhere that's why I figured I'd ask if you heard something... Rather verify with someone who may actually wind up on the project than someone who heard something through the grapevine...
And I assume they would move fast since this has to be complete in 2 years, as per the permit (thanks danlb for verifying that for me!!!)... I just wonder if we will be engaging battling alien robots or walking a yellow brick road, or....
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
In the wake of the successful Muppets Movie, I can't imagine when such a ride would be more timely. It would dramatically increase DHS capacity, add a much-needed family-friendly ride to the park, take a major load off TSMM, promote an underrepresented Disney franchise, and probably push a lot of merchandise... why aren't they building this!?
Universal is really stepping up their game. I'm happy to see what they've done, and will apparently continue to do. IoA is a fairly well rounded park now, it was designed well to begin with and Potter was needed to fill a void. The Studios needed a lot of work and once Potter and those THREE new projects Whylightbulb mentioned are complete, coupled with Despicable Me as well as Cinematic Spectacular and the Superstar Parade....it will be one hell of a park.
Disney is going to have to conjure up real magic to compete with that.
But will they?
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
I would take issue with you regarding your statement that people don't care about quality. You are right in that quality is objective though. Many on these boards try to make the argument that it's subjective but in reality quality material, design and execution is quantifiable and measureable.
While most guests could not point out the technical differences between a quality scenic paint or FRP job versus a cheap Cintra cutout they most certainly could "feel" the difference if given the opportunity to experience similar rides - one done the right way and one done like TSMM - side by side. A good example might be riding Pooh from WDW and then riding Pooh's Honey Hunt from TDS afterwards. There is no heart to TSMM. It is very mechanical and "cheap." You'd say, "who cares? People are having fun." Yes they are. They can also have fun at Six Flags or playing the Wii. So why did they just spend hundreds of dollars to get the same kind of high from attractions such as TSMM?
The point is that WDW is supposed to be much more than, "if it's good enough so that people have fun than it's good enough for the WDW of today." WDW used to be about not only fun but awe, inspiration, and emotion. TSMM is nothing but "bubble gum" fun. Many leave wanting more because they know Disney is capable.
On a side note to this discussion--- I've seen lots of Carsland envy on these boards. And rightfully so.
But just 3 or 4 years ago, if that ride/"land" had been proposed for WDW on these boards, it would have been attacked before the first shovel of dirt was turned because of PIXAR-IZATION.
Oh. My. Goodness. I can still remember the venom when there was any mention of a Pixar attraction (and not just the controversy over adding Nemo to Epcot). Some felt Buzz, Nemo Seas, Nemo Musical, and TSMM were already Pixar overload. I'm not saying one side was right or wrong. But its ironic to hear WDW fans now clamouring for another Pixar attraction (and yes, I know the purpose of this thread is about the quality and not the actual franchise)
But just 3 or 4 years ago, if that ride/"land" had been proposed for WDW on these boards, it would have been attacked before the first shovel of dirt was turned because of PIXAR-IZATION.
Oh. My. Goodness. I can still remember the venom when there was any mention of a Pixar attraction (and not just the controversy over adding Nemo to Epcot). Some felt Buzz, Nemo Seas, Nemo Musical, and TSMM were already Pixar overload. I'm not saying one side was right or wrong. But its ironic to hear WDW fans now clamouring for another Pixar attraction (and yes, I know the purpose of this thread is about the quality and not the actual franchise)
flynnibus
Premium Member
I found Donkey to be one of the best parts of USF... a great experience with great humor. I would be sad to see that go.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
Quality is different to everyone.
To say Disneyland is better quality than Disney World is dependant upon what one's opinion of both is and if they have actually been to both parks.
My opinion is, I find nothing wrong with the current condition of Disney World, when I go there its always what I expect it to be, nothing more, nothing less. Now unless they have little elves working overtime to make the park perfect for my visits, which I tend to believe for my own personal amusement, I have to deduce that the parks or more than likely in this state all year round. Or close to it.
Seriously, its not about right or wrong or who has this or who has that. Its about a fun vacation and if you can't find fun at any Disney property, then thats entirely about you.
Jimmy Thick- Or its just about Jimmy Thick...
To say Disneyland is better quality than Disney World is dependant upon what one's opinion of both is and if they have actually been to both parks.
My opinion is, I find nothing wrong with the current condition of Disney World, when I go there its always what I expect it to be, nothing more, nothing less. Now unless they have little elves working overtime to make the park perfect for my visits, which I tend to believe for my own personal amusement, I have to deduce that the parks or more than likely in this state all year round. Or close to it.
Seriously, its not about right or wrong or who has this or who has that. Its about a fun vacation and if you can't find fun at any Disney property, then thats entirely about you.
Jimmy Thick- Or its just about Jimmy Thick...
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
How far off is my doomsday Fastpass+ scenario?
Realistically, I think the fan boys do a better job covering this stuff than the major media outlets. Whether their opinions are unbiased is another story.I am still trying to figure out why our good friend Tom Bricker was credentialed as 'media' but I am sure he'll be told of this as soon as it hits the board and will hopefully regale us with his tale of being 'media' when he returns ... I'll be very interested as to whether Disney paid he and the Mrs.'s airfare and gave them a free hotel, admission and swag. Tom's a pretty stand-up guy, despite his career choice, so I think he'll be honest.
I doubt he got the Mongello or Hill treatment etc ...
Having talked to a friend in legit media circles who is being treated less than out at DLR now, I'd really like to hear Tom tell us all about how social media is all where it's at and why that 'splains why so many nobodies are wandering around with lanyards feeling mighty important ... maybe he's right, I'm sure I didn't read USA Today's front page business piece on Cars Land while having the first bacon sundae of my life (no, it wasn't bad ... wasn't good, either!)
Nobody reads anything but specialized Disney Lifestyle sites these days ... especially the Wall Street analysts!
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
I dislike Carsland for Pixarifying a Disney park, for being about shoving a 'princesses for the youngest boys' franchise down out throats.
I like Carsland for being elaborate, immersive, and sheer quality.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
I don't think this is likely, if even possible, for a few reasons.
Many in the Disney fan community flat out view Disney as a religion or political affiliation. Attacking a children's fountain might as well be tantamount to telling them there is no God, and if there were, he/she/it wouldn't like them very much.
Many more recent fans also simply don't understand Walt Disney's legacy and why and how his company became the worldwide leader in themed immersive family entertainment. So trying to splain why Princess costumes shouldn't be sold in Liberty Square or why having an E-Ticket operating with major effects broken/missing for months or years isn't acceptable is sorta like telling them that WDW once only had 1-2 theme parks and no timeshares and DD only had ONE Disney shop and the parks often closed at 6 or 7 p.m. for a few months time and yet many of us oldtimers (and I am waaay too young to be classified by that term, but will use it here for explanation sake) still believe in our cores that was BETTER WDW than today's. That point simply doesn't resonate. They can't imagine walking up to the better dining venues and getting in ... they can't imagine a time when foamhead meet and greets weren't a very important part of a visit ... they can't imagine that some restaurants had dress codes and actually enforced them etc.
Then ... well, you have folks like me. People who tend to tell it like it is (or was) and are blunt about it. I don't see many of us changing. I give credit to Disney all the time. When it is due. When they exceed my expectations such as on my transatlantic Magic cruise two springs ago or with new park product such as WoC in Anaheim or even when I like a particular new restaurant like Saana or Kouzzina or a watering hole like Trader Sam's. I will always judge Disney by the standards that the company conditioned me to during the amazing 1974-1994 period. Those are their standards, not mine. And that is why I won't gush about Dueling Dumbos, pavement with peanuts in it or interactive queues.
Build me something like ToT ... or KS ... or what UNI did with WWoHP and, apparently, Disney did with Carsland and I will gush like a giddy fanboi.
Try and convince me there's something new at WDW for summer 2012 and prepare for quite a smackdown.
We agree on this to large degree. But the WDW fanbase doesn't do much together period. I still recall being amazed and PMing back and forth with Steve (and others here) when everyone went nuts over the LoW disappearing from EPCOT. I was upset by it, but I was shocked that it was something I considered relatively small that galvanized them when they can't seem to agree on much. Again, in Anaheim when they like or don't like something, it is in big numbers and with loud powerful voices. People may not like Al Lutz (I have some issues with him, but respect that he helped bring about change), but the man was quoted more than any individual in USA Today's DCA 2.0 piece that ran on the front page of yesterday's Business Section.
Some may say that doesn't matter, and what matters is Lou Mongello's minions, but I strongly disagree. Most folks who take Disney business seriously wouldn't know Lou from the pizza deliveryman and most folks who are Disney consumers, but not the crazy fans we are, don't care what the Mommy Bloggers said is the best moderate resort for todllers at WDW.
As to your example, I absolutely agree. I don't particularly like the Mansion queue and feel it was a waste of money and doesn't do much on a creative level, either, but it isn't something worthy of fan angst. And the SSE ending has become laughable because the weakest part of all FOUR versions of that attraction has always been the last third. It's like they could never quite figure out what to do after they got us to the top of that magnificent structure. And while I miss much of the old EC themes, I don't think Tomorrow's Child was exactly a classic.
No, you're right ... things like the abominable show condition of Disco Yeti and all of EE ...or Splash Mountain or CoP or even the constant issues they are having with a monorail fleet showing its age, are vastly more important things to focus on.
But you try doing it.
The FixTheMagic guys in our midst had their hearts in the right place, but it's a full-time job and it's the kind of Disney Lifestyle job that isn't going to get you a media pass for Star Wars Weekends or a free preview of Art of Animation with requisite dine around.
I know our pal Tom Bricker has been mentioned in this thread, and he is a talented photographer (although I wish he and every online Disney photog didn't have the benefits of working in a digital world where you can take 2,000 pictures in a day and then play with them ... how I miss loading a role of film into my Nikon and having to choose what I captured ... I think that would drive folks like Andy Castro stark-raving mad!) but can you imagine him moving to O-Town to document what is wrong (and go back and credit Disney when it is made right)? I sure can't.
I first stated on LaughingPace.com around 2004 that DVCers were WDW's best hope for change, yet as time goes on that hope dims.
I'm not sure why, but I get the feeling that most DVCers either love WDW today or like it enough to not complan about anything that doesn't directly effect them. For instance if you were a SS owner and weren't close enough to the main pool (one of my faves at WDW, BTW) you simply complained until they added a second feature pool last year. If you own at the villas at DAK and don't like the Mara menu offerings, you simply complained until you got them changed.
But the big stuff? Doesn't seem to matter. I think that's because DVC hasn't been around that long. Just a bit over 20 years now. And most of its growth has happened in the last decade (WDW's worst, IMHO), so many guests are conditioned to a lower quality product that doesn't ever change much. I think many of those who get fed up with Disney ... those are the ones selling their points at OKW and Vero for ridiculously low amounts ($45 anyone? And, yes, at those resale prices I've actually thought about buying!)
But now as we sit here in 2012 with almost nothing at all new since 2008 (when the Studios debutted both AIE and TSMM within three months time), I think DVCers are mostly happy with their Pixie Dust.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
I understand that feeling. I've been waiting for Disney to wow me with a new attraction at an exisiting park since 1994 when ToT opened. I've been waiting for anything really since DAK opened in 1998. ... Disney has opened some 'nice' things since (much more crap though to be fair), but nothing that makes you go WOW!
And the thing is, they aren't really planning on it ... and if Soarin Over Pandora doesn't happen, well then there is absolutely nothing at all and WDW will keep living stuck in time, like a poorly maintained museum.
The thing is, though, fans that get excited by kiddie fountains (my folks wouldn't have taken me to the MK if that was the type of entertainment Disney offered in the 70s because they could have let me play in a kiddie pool that you'd pick up at K-Mart of run through the sprinkler and save a lot of money!) are honestly part of the problem. I don't give two shovels of Pixie Dust how nicely themed you may think this fountain is because it shouldn't be given any significance unless you want to drag a wet 4-year-old around the MK all day.
It's like people are so desperate for something, anything that new restrooms and planters get fanbois hot and bothered.
BTW, since I like to namedrop and all, I 'may' have just spoken with Mater himself live from the grammatically funky Disney California Adventure Park in beautiful Anaheim!
I feel the same way 74'. (BTW, I always like the points you make in your points. Feel like we are on the same wavelength). I want Disney to wow me again and push creative/technological boundaries like they were so so good at doing, or at least used to be doing. Don't get me wrong, I think NFE will be "nice." I'll enjoy it sure. But at the end of the day, it's one new restaurant with overpriced food, an enhanced older ride with a good queue for the age set it's geared towards (why people make such a big deal about it is beyond me) a ride copied directly from DL (doesn't exactly take imagination to do that), a kiddie rollercoaster, a meet and greet (blah), and story time with one character. I'm actually most excited to check out the AA for story time with Belle because at least that will be hopefully a fairly advanced AA. And a play place certainly doesn't excite me. It's nice but then I'm not just looking for nice. I would hope they'd be willing to spend the money on Avatar Land. It's well known but if they want it to actually stand the test of time even when it is years removed from the movies releases, they need to "go big" on it. A half assed land isn't going to appeal to many people 10 years down the road when the "new" factor has worn off. It's sad knowing there is already talk of cutbacks.
I truly am hoping/believe that at some point, Disney is going to have to go back to "Wow" if they want to keep there guests/attendance/revenue at the same level they have been. All of Disney's competition in the Orlando area are adding new things (I even think about what Lego Land has been doing though I most think about Universal). When there are new offerings at other parks that are higher on the "wow scale," they steal visitors. Heck, even from that standpoint, you could look at DL/DCA stealing visitors as many on this board seem to prefer it at the moment...something I can understand. I hope it's just a matter of when and not if (though I'm skeptical right now) Disney's hand will be forced.
EDIT: And this post isn't meant to convey that I hate Disney now or something. I like it. I love it. I just know it can be much more than what is being offered at this period in time.