Two coasts: One very different world

[lazyboy97o]

Hardly seems fair to compare Casey Jr. to Cars Land as if they're supposed to even remotely be the same thing. Compare Cars Land to the COMPLETED Fantasyland and then this conversation might have a place.

Even then that is not a comparison and that is a problem that Cars Land to Fantasyland keeps getting invoked as an appropriate comparison. Fantasyland is a large project in that it takes up space, not in it's ambitions.

 

[Tom]

What would it take to make our voices heard more effectively? I butorsknow Fix the Magic is out there. Do they just need more contributors?

It seems to me if there was one blog where people posted pixie-dust-free views of WDW, it might gain some traction. It could be counter-programming to all the mommy blogs out there. No one involved would likely get free cruises out of the deal. But maybe we could get some attention where it needs to be.

Does such a thing exist right now? If so, do we all just need to become more active participants? If not, who's interested in starting a movement?

Any other ideas?

Seriously? Fix the Magic is closed? What happened?!?

They couldnt afford the servers required to host a site requiring soooooo many pages detailing faults.

Yup, this is pretty much it in a nutshell. I built the site from the ground up for a team of eager contributors who were going to write blogs, post status updates, and recruit help and followers.

My friend donated the hosting for a year, and I paid for the domain name, which expires this coming week. However, there has been no new content since last August, so I decided to close it down. I'm not interested in paying for the hosting, or for renewing the domain name. I sent an e-mail to the original team, and it seems as if interest has all but disappeared.

If someone has access to hosting (that I don't have to pay for) and wishes to renew the domain name, I still have the CMS, Blog and Forum, along with their associated databases. The site could probably be reproduced with little effort, but I'm not willing to put forth that effort if the interest will only last for 2 months again.

Yep! Did you get the email? I registered on the site but never really posted as I didn't have anything to report. I visited Disney a couple of times after the site was open but still didn't have any real noteworthy news to share. The site would be better serviced by locals, I'm sure... who are there more often. And it's hard to focus on all the problems when you're at Disney with your family trying to have a good time. There's nothing wrong with snorting Pixie Dust on a vacation you just payed a lot of money for. I think the site could have worked... but needed a bigger following and some folks who were dedicated to reporting the problems.

Yes, it needed followers AND contributors. The site had a decent membership on the forum, but nothing was being reported. And nobody was writing articles. After 9 months of no new members (except bots) and no new content, it because obvious there was no use in continuing.

 

[lebeau]

Yep! Did you get the email? I registered on the site but never really posted as I didn't have anything to report. I visited Disney a couple of times after the site was open but still didn't have any real noteworthy news to share. The site would be better serviced by locals, I'm sure... who are there more often. And it's hard to focus on all the problems when you're at Disney with your family trying to have a good time. There's nothing wrong with snorting Pixie Dust on a vacation you just payed a lot of money for.
I think the site could have worked... but needed a bigger following and some folks who were dedicated to reporting the problems.

I see what you mean. I think part of the problem was that Fix had too narrow of a focus. I would advocate for something with a lot more editorial content. Opinion pieces on the direction things are going and not just updates on repairs. That's great stuff. But not enough meat to keep people reading. What I have in mind, everyone could contribute to even if they aren't locals.

 

[Tom]

I see what you mean. I think part of the problem was that Fix had too narrow of a focus. I would advocate for something with a lot more editorial content. Opinion pieces on the direction things are going and not just updates on repairs. That's great stuff. But not enough meat to keep people reading. What I have in mind, everyone could contribute to even if they aren't locals.

That was actually half the intent, but it too never took off. The "founders" were lining up guest bloggers - both known and anonymous - to provide written content in the blog/article section. But it never happened.

 

[lebeau]

Yup, this is pretty much it in a nutshell. I built the site from the ground up for a team of eager contributors who were going to write blogs, post status updates, and recruit help and followers.

My friend donated the hosting for a year, and I paid for the domain name, which expires this coming week. However, there has been no new content since last August, so I decided to close it down. I'm not interested in paying for the hosting, or for renewing the domain name. I sent an e-mail to the original team, and it seems as if interest has all but disappeared.

If someone has access to hosting (that I don't have to pay for) and wishes to renew the domain name, I still have the CMS, Blog and Forum, along with their associated databases. The site could probably be reproduced with little effort, but I'm not willing to put forth that effort if the interest will only last for 2 months again.




Yes, it needed followers AND contributors. The site had a decent membership on the forum, but nothing was being reported. And nobody was writing articles. After 9 months of no new members (except bots) and no new content, it because obvious there was no use in continuing.

Sorry to hear that. But I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps the thing to do is start smaller. My blog is something I maintain in my spare time and I have built up a readership that averages over 1,000 views daily. I am not out a penny. I am thinking we start small and slowly build up a following.

I don't know how to run a site. But I do know a bit about attracting an audience. I have no doubt that a no bull Disney blog would be embraced.

 

[Tom]

Sorry to hear that. But I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps the thing to do is start smaller. My blog is something I maintain in my spare time and I have built up a readership that averages over 1,000 views daily. I am not out a penny. I am thinking we start small and slowly build up a following.

I don't know how to run a site. But I do know a bit about attracting an audience. I have no doubt that a no bull Disney blog would be embraced.

And rather than a forum, which was becoming a HUGE pain in the a$$, we just skin a Wordpress page (already done, just needs to be uploaded to a server) and set up multiple authors. If we forget the forum (which would be my vote), I still have the Style/Theme for a self-hosted wordpress blog and could have it running on someone's *nix/PHP/MySQL server in no time...and redirect the domain.

 

[lebeau]

And rather than a forum, which was becoming a HUGE pain in the a$$, we just skin a Wordpress page (already done, just needs to be uploaded to a server) and set up multiple authors. If we forget the forum (which would be my vote), I still have the Style/Theme for a self-hosted wordpress blog and could have it running on someone's *nix/PHP/MySQL server in no time...and redirect the domain.

I only understood about 1/2 of that. But it sounds good. The comments section of my blog is more lively than a lot of forums I have been to. Plus we have a great forum here. I see no need for a forum.

The key as I see it is to provide quality content (the kind the Disney brand was founded on) on a regular basis. We do that and we will develop a following.

 

[Tom]

I only understood about 1/2 of that. But it sounds good. The comments section of my blog is more lively than a lot of forums I have been to. Plus we have a great forum here. I see no need for a forum.

The key as I see it is to provide quality content (the kind the Disney brand was founded on) on a regular basis. We do that and we will develop a following.

The forum was the only tool we could think of that would allow people to update everyone on the ACTUAL status of rides and shows, in a "live" format. It was too cumbersome and didn't work.

I was just contacted by a member here who has hosting space sitting idle. A server-side instance of our Wordpress blog, and my custom theme, could be uploaded in minutes - and with a domain redirect, it could most definitely be used to get the point across in a professional manner.

 

[lebeau]

The forum was the only tool we could think of that would allow people to update everyone on the ACTUAL status of rides and shows, in a "live" format. It was too cumbersome and didn't work.

I was just contacted by a member here who has hosting space sitting idle. A server-side instance of our Wordpress blog, and my custom theme, could be uploaded in minutes - and with a domain redirect, it could most definitely be used to get the point across in a professional manner.

Great!

Now we need content.

It's put up or shut up time folks! Sound off. Who has something to say?

 

[WDW1974]

In a way that actually s another thing that showcases the difference between the coasts: DCA kept the whole area complete and opened everything in one big event: all of Carsland and all of Buena Vista Street. While in Florida we get the new Fantasyland in tiny bits. First you can walk more or less through a maze of construction walls to one spinner and then things get opened up in tiny pieces. It's a process that will keep going for 2 years!! Yes, I know the differences: DCA needed the new launch to free itself from the image of "the park that failed". But why couldn't the MK have a great event to launch the new Fantasyland as well? Well, because it desperately needs any bit of capacity that it can get as soon as it becomes available. Also, as others have said the whole project is spread out because of accounting issues. And then I have read many times here how smart it is to open it in phases to constantly have something new to promote.

MK had gotten to the point where there was almost no choice. They needed capacity so badly, after spending 15 years closing locations from attractions to food to retail, plus having FP (which may or may not be great to get you on attractions faster, but definitely is great at clogging walkways). This is a park that can't handle crowds of 30,000 without opening backstage behind MSUSA ... but in 1980 could handle well over twice that.

As to an event to 'celebrate ' the 'new, new, new but not really Fantasyland' rest assured that Disney PR has an event scheduled, I believe it will coincide with the new parade debutting next fall.

But Disney does look pathetic when it makes a big deal about the kids fountain opening or Dumbos' queue. Theese are tny things that no one else would even think are worthy of more than a line or two in a press release.

And I think with this last argument we are back where WDW1974 started: Does Disney really thing that they can get people excited enough about WDW when they have a relocated Dumbo or a former ride turned into a princess meet & greet?

Yes, they REALLY do!

 

[WDW1974]

Earth moving and the Golden Shovel ceremony for Cars Land took place on July 9th, 2009. Cars Land opened officially on June 15th, 2012. So, it took about three weeks shy of three years to build Cars Land from the ground up. And this is in California, where they have far more restrictive building codes for earthquakes, and a government permit process that is far less accomodating than Florida and the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

I just returned from my first visit to Cars Land and the extreme makeover of the new DCA. All I can say is.... WOW. The place is amazing. I can't even believe this is the same theme park that I used to make fun of constantly a decade ago. That new opening act of Buena Vista Street where the cheesy Sunshine Plaza used to be is just stunning.

Cars Land is gorgeous and funny and charming and romantic and awe-inspiring all at the same time. My new favorite land of any Disney theme park; and yes, I have been to Tokyo DisneySea several times.

And Radiator Springs Racers?!? That's the best darn theme park ride I've seen since Indiana Jones Adventure and/or Pirates of the Caribbean. Radiator Springs Racers impresses you immediately like nothing I've been on; it's just brilliant from the moment you step into the queue until you exit the ride. Even the ride's exit path had people stopping and taking pictures of the breathtaking scenery. So, so, so utterly impressive with the big animatronics and soaring rockwork and thrilling road race and swelling music and crashing waterfalls.

And yes, the Casey Jr. water train looks cute. But I don't quite get the fence around the locomotive.

Speaking of fountains, the more reviews I hear/read of Carsland (and BVS) the more I keep hearing that old song from Sunshine Plaza's loop playing in my head ... ya know ... California Here I Come ... Open Up Your Golden Gates ...

Yes, I fully understand all the double and triple entendres in this post. I just need to get to Carburetor County!

 

[Cosmic Commando]

MK had gotten to the point where there was almost no choice. They needed capacity so badly, after spending 15 years closing locations from attractions to food to retail, plus having FP (which may or may not be great to get you on attractions faster, but definitely is great at clogging walkways). This is a park that can't handle crowds of 30,000 without opening backstage behind MSUSA ... but in 1980 could handle well over twice that.

As to an event to 'celebrate ' the 'new, new, new but not really Fantasyland' rest assured that Disney PR has an event scheduled, I believe it will coincide with the new parade debutting next fall.

But Disney does look pathetic when it makes a big deal about the kids fountain opening or Dumbos' queue. Theese are tny things that no one else would even think are worthy of more than a line or two in a press release.



Yes, they REALLY do!

You're 99% right, but the situation is bad enough that there's no need to exaggerate. 30,000 people is still a slow day at Magic Kingdom Park©, not bursting at the seams.

 

[WDW1974]

Tom Bricker is there representing Touring Plans, which he blogs for.

Everyone it seems is 'blogging' something for someone these days, so long as it helps them get in on the gravy train of Social Media. I wonder if he was allowed to bring a guest. I have friends that work in real media and told they would not be allowed to bring guests, while it sure seems others brought their entire families (I think Jim Hill had everyone there except for his pet cow, Mabeline!)

But I'm really not here to pile on Tom. I like the guy. I've given him advice on his upcoming Tokyo trip. It's just he's the only person that I know will have the cajones to come and respond to questions and pointed comments. The others all read (or their minions read), but they won't post here because they know anything they say won't help them but might hurt them.

FWIW, I hadn't even heard of Touring Plans before last year ... but then again, I also had no clue who Lou Mongello and his best friend Tommy Corless were before last year either! I think I had heard of Ricky Brigante 2-3 years ago. Never met one of them.

I do wonder how big a business Touring Plans is and how important they really are to most Disney guests (not OCD fanbois and soccer moms/bored housewives).

I'm not one to judge how someone spends their vacation days, but it seems they usually leave on evening flights after working during the day and their trips usually overlap a weekend. He probably takes fewer vacation days than it appears.

I try and not judge either. I did just return from almost two months of travel ... and that doesn't include my little WDW getaway in March either and, yet, here I am thinking about getting to DLR ... and maybe stopping in Las Vegas ... and thinking how nice Alaska would be next month (that one is unlikely) etc. Oh, and I was talking to a very dear friend earlier today about possibly taking a Disney Cruise next spring.

BUT ... and c'mon, you knew there was a BUT ... I am not a lawyer. And I am not in my 20s (hence, my attracting fanbois with Daddy issues!) I may be wrong but I've never known a law firm that works its clients and lawyers according to what event is happening at DL or WDW. I can just see some of the top legal eagles I know if one of the youngest people in the office said he/she had to take 2-3 days of because 'Disney is going to keep its parks open for 24 hours straight!!!' or 'there's this D23 event ...' ... it would not be pretty. Unless Tom's boss is his father or father in law or uncle etc. I'd also say that traveling that much to Disney, often at busy times, costs quite a bit too.

My strong hunch is that Tom is looking to get out of law as quickly as he can and join the ranks of the top Social Media/Disney Lifestylers. I don't blame him!

 

[WDW1974]

I am forever fascinated at the differences in operation between Disneyland and WDW. Those differences have been growing wider in recent years, and I'm afraid it's now a chasm between the two when it comes to several key things in how they run their daily business. It's amazing these are two properties run by the same company, and that this wide difference in operation has grown wider during the "One Disney" corporate era.

Exactly ... and that tells you what a figurehead position Meg Crofton's really is. The woman is ostensibly in charge of ghetto/crumbling Paris (which apparently just had its expansion plans for the Studios hit a snag with the bankers), Walmarted Timeshare Kingdom of O-Town (with its super kewl new kiddies play, pee and pooh fountain!) and the shining diamond that is DLR.

Three resorts that could not be more different in so many key ways. Yet same management -- at least at the corporate level.

Cars Land and DCA's extreme makeover just puts a cherry on top of that. A very big cherry.

That said, I would humbly add Splash Mountain to Tower of Terror as two attractions that are designed better at WDW. There are more animatronics in Disneyland's Splash, and the maintenance is noticeably better (without the funky WDW smell too), but the plotline and art direction is better on WDW's Splash Mountain. At Disneyland's Splash Mt. it's a frenzied race past two dozen singing chickens and psychedelic animals flailing in caves before the drops, but at WDW there's actually a plotline and story presented. Who knew Splash Mountain had a plot?!? Not me, until I rode the WDW version after a few years of riding the Disneyland version.

I agree when it is in proper show condition and doesn't reak of sweat/BO since it would cost money to actually clean the logs nightly (or at all) ... I'll take TDL's version. Always perfect. Never gets you wet. If I can't, then I'll happily slog around with DL's version of Splash because it has a single rider line that always results in walk-on rides for me, even when the stand-by is two hours plus in length.

 

[WDW1974]

I think the ridiculously long lines at Midway Mania at DHS speak more to Fastpass forced on to the operation and the dearth of rides and attractions at DHS, than the actual merits of Midway Mania. There are only a small handful of actual rides in DHS, and all of them are from the 1990's, except for Midway Mania.

What should be fascinating to watch is what happens to the lines for Midway Mania at DCA now that Cars Land is open. Midway Mania at DCA doesn't have Fastpass (in that quirky Disneyland way where they limit Fastpass to only a small number of rides in each park, opposite of the WDW strategy), and it generally has waits of 45 minutes on busy days. What happens with Cars Land now open? Do the DCA wait times drop to 20 or 30 minutes? Or does DCA attendance bump up enough to keep the afternoon Mania wait times at 45?

Any idea why DCA did away with its single riders line for TSMM, TP?

I keep forgetting to ask my peeps on the left coast, but it's about the only bad ops move that they've made recently ... or at least bad for me (and I realize they did away with it at least two years ago now).

 

[WDW1974]

I'll try to make this point across more....interesting with the help of the film "Network".




I don' t need to tell you things are bad. Many fanboys and sweatshirt moms know things are bad.

It's 2012!

Everybody's talking about DCA, or wondering if the FLE will hold up.

A WDW one day one park ticket costs nearly $100 now. The monorails are going bust. Cast Members are dealing with an increase in rude guests. Xpass is running wild and there's nobody anywhere that seems to know what to do with it...THERE'S NO END TO IT!

We know the bulbs are broken and many facilities are closed and that the food and merchandise is not up to par and we sit and read blogs that said today we saw a dumbo spinner open and some shingles be placed on a cottage as if that's the way it's supposed to be! We know things are bad. They're crazy! It's like everything at Walt Disney World is crazy and that it's not living up to the expectations and quality it used to be. So we don't think about it anymore. It's as if "the world" is getting smaller and losing itself and we sit at our desks and say "please at least leave us alone at our desk, just give us our DVC and another chance to see the same illuminations show from 2000!" WELL I'M NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU ALONE! I WANT YOU TO GET MAD!

I don't want you to strap yourself to the carousel of progress, I don't want you to write or call Bob or Meg because I wouldn't no what to tell you to say. I don't know what to do about the uncessary DVC expansion or the price hikes with less new things to offer or the fact that Epcot hasn't had a new country since the Reagan administration or that we haven't had a substantial new attraction since E:E, which itself is broken and the only recent things we've gotten are either refurbished attractions or clones. All I know is first, you've got to get mad!

You've got to say I'M A FANBOY GOD DAMNIT, MY MONEY HAS VALUE!

So...I want you to get up now from your computer and stop hugging all your plush and ephemera.

I want you to stop renewing your WDW AP and spending all your money at WDW and do what I and other fanboys have done by bugeting our money and are instead going to other Disney resorts, whether it be CA or Paris or in Asia and see for yourself what real Disney quality is and how sad things have gotten at WDW, where they only care about catering to the average guest and the pixie dust fanboys...the two time visitor and the fan that thinks 10 year old fireworks shows and hotel expansion pads are dandy.

Come on, I want you to get up and say I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M GOING TO A DIFFERENT DISNEY RESORT.

Did you post this because you know my AP is up now and Disney decided to reward my 30 years of loyalty by raising it about $75 (last year was $11 and I had to fight to get the old price ... can only imagine what they'd put me through for that much!)?

Nah, I don't think you would dare do that!

(Seriously, I'd just love it if Disney told me in writing that they'd rather some 31-year-old Mommy from Akron, Ohio that just bought into DVC last year with hubby and DD8 and DS 3 be their guests than me so her APs are only $10 more than mine ... it would be easier on us both! They clearly want us to give up the passes.)

But I am thinking that 3-4 comped days at DLR may not satisfy me. I may actually pull the trigger on an AP out there for the first time since 2007!

Oh, excuse me was I ranting in public? ... Yeah, that happens as you get angrier.

 

[WDW1974]

It's entirely anecdotal of course, but I get the distinct impression from other guests that they genuinely love both rides. Most leave on a definite high.

People don't care about any 'objective' quality, or innovation, or tech specs. They care about the fun they have. To criticise TSMM as a glorified Wii game is akin to jazz fusion lovers rubbishing a pop song for merely having three chords. Sure, one is more 'musically accomplished', but the audience at large prefers the fun energetic pop song.

Isn't this the old Walmart argument? Or McDonald's? Or Chevy?

People may like lower quality products, but that shouldn't be what Disney aims for.

Again, they are supposed to be a premium brand. They are priced accordingly (well, I can and have stayed at Ritz Carltons and Four Seasons for less than people often pay to stay at WDW moderate resorts, but let's not get into the mental makeup of always needing to be on property!) They are marketed as such. The company PR certainly wouldn't place them with any other company in the business?

So ... the fact people when fed ground chuck enjoy it because they don't realize they should be getting filet mignon doesn't hold much water with me.

 

[WDW1974]

Tell this to all your friends here. I tried to tell some people to have some pride about their home resort but I didn't get far. At all. Honestly though, if WDW's main clientel is international tourists then I doubt anything will change anytime soon. I'm guessing they will still be visiting. What WDW needs is a strong AP group like Disneyland's.

Gotta correct that ... WDW's main clientele is NOT internationals. It has always been Americans, even as we've butchered the middle class into tiny pieces. And many internationals are returnees and APers.

But I also doubt anything will happen soon.

Maybe I should join the DISBOARDS and see if those folks think WDW is better than ever? (I NEED MY DOCTOR EVIL ... HELP ME, STEVE!!!)

 

[Tom]

Maybe I should join the DISBOARDS and see if those folks think WDW is better than ever? (I NEED MY DOCTOR EVIL ... HELP ME, STEVE!!!)

If you join and say anything other than the WDW is 100% pixie dust, you'll be banned within 5 minutes.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Gotta correct that ... WDW's main clientele is NOT internationals. It has always been Americans, even as we've butchered the middle class into tiny pieces. And many internationals are returnees and APers.

But I also doubt anything will happen soon.

Maybe I should join the DISBOARDS and see if those folks think WDW is better than ever? (I NEED MY DOCTOR EVIL ... HELP ME, STEVE!!!)

Aaahhh, ok. I'm on DisBoards. I don't see as much complaining as I see here, but at the same time I've seen posts from users where they were talking about how their first trips to Disneyland turned them into Disneyland converts. This one WDW vet user on the site even encouraged another user to rag on WDW and praise DL. I was shocked, honestly.