Two coasts: One very different world

[WDW1974]

This is why the old man & I both agree we can't go to DL for anything less than 7 days. Seriously. I want to see every nook-n-cranny when I get there. I'm not even kidding. I think the average visitor tries to hit each attraction or show once then call it done. I'm not like that. If I enjoy a ride or a show I want to do redo it as many times as I can to keep immersing in it. So if the average person says 2-3 days is pleeeenty of time to "do" DL, I translate that into 6-7 for us.

Honestly, even for a first visit, seven days is too many. With the new DCA and all of the many entertainment offerings at both parks, I could certainly see 4-5 days for a first-timer, but anything more really would be overkill. And that's including time at DD and visits/meals at the hotels too.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The thing is, though, fans that get excited by kiddie fountains (my folks wouldn't have taken me to the MK if that was the type of entertainment Disney offered in the 70s because they could have let me play in a kiddie pool that you'd pick up at K-Mart of run through the sprinkler and save a lot of money!) are honestly part of the problem. I don't give two shovels of Pixie Dust how nicely themed you may think this fountain is because it shouldn't be given any significance unless you want to drag a wet 4-year-old around the MK all day.

It's like people are so desperate for something, anything that new restrooms and planters get fanbois hot and bothered.

BTW, since I like to namedrop and all, I 'may' have just spoken with Mater himself live from the grammatically funky Disney California Adventure Park in beautiful Anaheim!

I don't understand why they didn't just put the actual Casey Jr. Train ride in the park. Are they expecting the parents to just sit and watch their kiddies play in this...fountain? I'm not exactly sure what it is. There's all this space, yet it's not used. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Regarding Mater, what exactly do you mean you spoke with him? I'm curious lol.

 

[WDW1974]

Did you say a WATER PLAY AREA?! I think you mean Casey Jr's Magical Wet Fantasy Spot! (That's what you call a set-up for a patented Spirit WDI-punchline.)

I believe they had one set up in Glendale at the 2006 Imagineer/Fanboi Mixer ... but there was quite a mess the next day and apparently some of the WRE artwork took quite a ... a ... um ... exceptional beating, so they haven't had one since.

Happy?

Carsland looks fabulous and it's certainly made me think I'll visit DL and DCA the next time I'm in Southern California. When was the last time WDW received anything on the scale of Radiator Springs Racers? Umm...1994? Tower of Terror? Maybe Safari in 1998? Everest was clearly conceived as a big-scale blockbuster, but it sorta, ya know, has had its issues.

Issues? Poor Donna Summer passed before she and Disco Yeti were able to dance again.

KS definitely has the scale of RSRs and is a great (and usually underrated) WDW attraction, but since it was the centerpiece attraction of a new park, I have a hard time even putting it up there ... since it wasn't something 'new' per se, but in a new park.

Can someone tell me how long it took for Carsland to be constructed?

Less time than it takes WDW to build new restroom facilities!

I ask because supposedly the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train -- a relatively minor, C/D-ticket kiddie coaster -- won't be completed until 2014. It was announced, what, two years ago? I get that they have to work around budgets, but say-what? Given the huge gap between announcing and opening the ride, the OCD can act like it's a major addition to MK, but it's not. It's not Pirates, Mansion, the Matterhorn -- it doesn't even sound like it's going to be much of a dark ride. I imagine it being like the Astro-Orbiter with a couple of show scenes -- fun, but not the reason why I would visit the parks. Not top-of-the-line entertainment, in other words.

At this rate, no wonder people are predicting that Avatarland wouldn't open until 2016 if it opens at all. (Where's the conceptual art for that, BTW?)

There isn't any because Disney and Cameron have had issues even deciding whether anything would actually be built, let alone what. But some crazy Spirit has been saying that since last fall's announcement ... because it's very rational that a project of this scope would be announced without a single concept rendering and nine months later there still wouldn't be anything that both sides were willing to let out, even with the usual disclaimers.

Bottom line is WDW management simply doesn't want to tend to their parks. There's no urgency. They are managed with nearly absolute complacency. If management wanted to address the shortcomings in the parks, there would be major quality projects lined up ACROSS THE BOARD for the next few years. There aren't.

The return of a light parade from the early 90s (to replace the return of a light parade from the 70s) might excite some people, but I'm just mystified by WDW's operations.

There's no question in my mind, if I was going to pay for a ticket to a theme park in Orlando right now, it would be for either Universal or SeaWorld. Because they're opening new attractions, trying to provide the best entertainment they can. WDW, meanwhile, is content to open the Magical Fantasyland Splash Zone.

Bolded for emphasis. ... and I would personally like to see them sink both the MSEP and Spectro floats into the SSL so they could become fanboi lore like D-I-C-K Nunis's infamous MAGICal surf machine.

 

[WDW1974]

Why do you feel it necessary to manufacture controversy here?

I dunno ... because it's $exy ... and sells. ... Or because I am not manufacturing anything, but simply pointing out issues in the fan community. I'm a fan. This is a fan site. Do you wanna discuss your favorite place for a character breakfast? Or about the new line of vinylmation?

I want to talk about the condition of WDW and why it is that way. Is someone forcing you to read?
I don't go hang out on the planning board and tell people they're nuts for spending 10 nights at the Beach Club Villas in August and not renting a car, even if I think that. I want more meaty topics. But no one makes you take part.

This is a WDW focused site, is it not? Is it in any way surprising that members of this site would be excited about even a trivial enhancement to the resort they are most interested in when compared to a resort they likely have never visited and may never visit?

I think any true Disney fan who opts to return year after year to WDW, despite its continued lowering in quality, but wouldn't think of visiting DL (or taking a DCL cruise or visiting an international resort) has some serious Pixie Dust addictions.

And you said it -- trivial. That's what this is. And you dishonor all of the amazing talents that made WDW what it once was when you treat it as anything more.

I don't care whether this is a WDW-centric site or not. But I wasn't criticizing the MAGIC community, I was criticizing the fan community in general (many who have taken to the Twitverse because they are unable to discuss issues with those they disagree with).

Yes, it's a trivial addition. Yes, it in no way compares to the complete reworking and expansion of DCA. Those with half a brain already implicitly understand this while the true pixie dust snorters may not even be able to locate California on a map...of California. So really, what's the point of this exercise?

Can't find CA on a CA map ... now, that's good stuff!

TDO views their patronage as primarily composed of one-in-a-lifetimers, international travelers, and nostalgia ridden diehards as opposed to a captive local population of return visitors. How is any attempt at a patron population holding them accountable for quality improvements ever going to come close to moving the needle of progress? It won't because TDO can continue to fatten their bottom line from the wallets of the uninformed.

That simply isn't the case. While WDW is quite happy to get as many one-and-done types as it can, it clearly counts on those with ties to the resort ... be they DVCers, APers, FLA residents, every few year visitors etc.
And are you going to suggest yet again that DLR gets most of its visitors from the 'captive local population' no matter how much that is refuted?

Thunder and light in the sky and tree limbs crashing ... I love living in paradise!

 

[WDW1974]

I'm confused. Who is making a big deal about this? It's had two tweets from Disney Parks and one article with pictures on the Disney Parks Blog.

Carsland has had dozens of tweets and 6 articles on the blog just in the past 24 hours.

I just don't see the equivalent praise you are citing. Perhaps you could link some other sources that demonstrate this viewpoint?

Yeah, sure ... I'll send you a list of sites and Twits tweeting and individual posters posting ... as soon as you send me documentation that DAK didn't open with daily operating hours of 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. ... and, while you're at it, memos and schedules that show I imagined all those midnight closings at EPCOT and Disney-MGM and all those printed schedules that say as much.

And I wasn't talking about The Disney Parks Blog ... even those fools aren't stupid enough to upstage their biggest domestic event in years by talking about a kiddie fountain.

 

[WDW1974]

Agree, all the bloggers are off enjoying their free trip to CA. No ones minding the store

I am still trying to figure out why our good friend Tom Bricker was credentialed as 'media' but I am sure he'll be told of this as soon as it hits the board and will hopefully regale us with his tale of being 'media' when he returns ... I'll be very interested as to whether Disney paid he and the Mrs.'s airfare and gave them a free hotel, admission and swag. Tom's a pretty stand-up guy, despite his career choice, so I think he'll be honest.

I doubt he got the Mongello or Hill treatment etc ...

Having talked to a friend in legit media circles who is being treated less than out at DLR now, I'd really like to hear Tom tell us all about how social media is all where it's at and why that 'splains why so many nobodies are wandering around with lanyards feeling mighty important ... maybe he's right, I'm sure I didn't read USA Today's front page business piece on Cars Land while having the first bacon sundae of my life (no, it wasn't bad ... wasn't good, either!)

Nobody reads anything but specialized Disney Lifestyle sites these days ... especially the Wall Street analysts!

 

[jakeman]

Yeah, sure ... I'll send you a list of sites and Twits tweeting and individual posters posting ... as soon as you send me documentation that DAK didn't open with daily operating hours of 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. ... and, while you're at it, memos and schedules that show I imagined all those midnight closings at EPCOT and Disney-MGM and all those printed schedules that say as much.

And I wasn't talking about The Disney Parks Blog ... even those fools aren't stupid enough to upstage their biggest domestic event in years by talking about a kiddie fountain.

You certainly don't like being challenged do you?

Why do you take such offense when asked to simply prove your stance? I even looked for you and didn't see it. As with other posters, I would be more than happy to PM you links to the sites I looked at today. It took about 10 minutes to come to the conclusion that you are wrong.

As for comparing this to a previous conversation we had months ago, we aren't talking about conflicting memories a decade old, we are talking about a readily verifiable event happening today. One that you made claims that are untrue.

Even on this very site which by nature is WDW centric the coverage in the respectable threads are almost equivalent.

It's okay to be wrong. It happens to the best of us.

And just to be clear because I know you like to twist post around, I'm only challenging your assertion that Casey's was covered as much or more than Carsland by the media (social or otherwise today).

 

[WDW1974]

The imbalance between WDW and DL creative and financial investment is an issue larger than Cars Land vs Storybook Circus.

Yes, Jim ... and that is sorta the point I thought I was making to begin with ... but perhaps you can offer more (or put it differently) because some folks are having trouble understanding.

Or maybe they're just being adversarial because they enjoy it?

 

[WDW1974]

You certainly don't like being challenged do you?

I live to be challenged, Jake ... what I don't like is certain posters who like to yip at my heels like little puppies looking for attention.

Why do you take such offense when asked to simply prove your stance? I even looked for you and didn't see it. As with other posters, I would be more than happy to PM you links to the sites I looked at today. It took about 10 minutes to come to the conclusion that you are wrong.

I don't take offense. I take it that I've gotten under your skin. ... I don't know how you could prove me wrong when my contention was that WDW fans were/are giving way too much attention to something that doesn't deserve it. That was from quickly reading this and other Disney sites as well as the ever-the-more-self-important fan community in the Twitverse.

But you're getting more like JT by the day. You don't ever discuss the real issues in a thread. You look for ways to discredit because you fundamentally disagree with my world/World views.

There's no way of either of us being 'right' by any measurable metric, but I'm truly impressed that you decided to try and prove me wrong anyway.

Always fair and balanced.

As for comparing this to a previous conversation we had months ago, we aren't talking about conflicting memories a decade old, we are talking about a readily verifiable event happening today. One that you made claims that are untrue.

Claiming that people were taking a kiddie fountain too seriously was untrue? I really don't even know how to respond to you.

And, yes, I was bringing up a conversation in which you were in fact factually wrong, yet you never backed down. I am wrong every now and then and I can admit it ... especially when talking about Disney on a discussion board!

Even on this very site which by nature is WDW centric the coverage in the respectable threads are almost equivalent.

It's okay to be wrong. It happens to the best of us.

And just to be clear because I know you like to twist post around, I'm only challenging your assertion that Casey's was covered as much or more than Carsland by the media (social or otherwise today).

Except that was NOT my assertion at all. I don't believe that to be true AT ALL! Of course, all the real media covering Disney were in Anaheim (or writing about it) and all the social media that could get Disney to pay for it (or use their government aid checks!) were in Anaheim. The only people 'covering' the Casey Junior Fun With Bodily Function WaterPlay Zone were the O-Town based bloggers who weren't 'important' enough to be sent to Anaheim.

Again, read what I am saying ... not views you ascribe to me. I NEVER said any media was covering anything at WDW today at all. I spoke of fan reaction/chatter.

 

[wannab@dis]

I am still trying to figure out why our good friend Tom Bricker was credentialed as 'media' but I am sure he'll be told of this as soon as it hits the board and will hopefully regale us with his tale of being 'media' when he returns ... I'll be very interested as to whether Disney paid he and the Mrs.'s airfare and gave them a free hotel, admission and swag. Tom's a pretty stand-up guy, despite his career choice, so I think he'll be honest.

I doubt he got the Mongello or Hill treatment etc ...

Looks like someone was left out and they are jealous. Poor thing.

Reminds me of some of the professors in college who were there because they failed to make it. They were always so jealous of the others that succeeded. The old adage is so true about those that can, do... those that can't, teach. Need to add another part. Those that think they have a clue and really don't, just sit and complain about everything and act like they could do better.

With all that said, the whole thread is a complete strawman argument, something that '74 falls into all the time. There's no huge attempt to make Casey's Train as important as Carsland. If instead of always bashing everything, he paid attention, he would have noticed about 1-2 posts per week on the Disney blog about the new FLE addition.

 

[invader]

<74's Heels>

Yip yip. Yip yip.

 

[WDW1974]

You are cynical.

And you are a fast learner!

 

[wannab@dis]

I don't like is certain posters ... looking for attention.

Quoted for truth!

 

[WDW1974]

I never have been able to understand why people post in a thread that they think is unnecessary to begin with.

Gosh, I don't like Liver, so I think I'll go out, and buy a couple of lbs. of it.

You know why. They can't help themselves ... and they aren't capable of adding anything so they try and derail the talk, get it moved (or better yet, closed) etc.

I'm just glad it is by far the minority here because that surely (and I will call you Shirley) was NOT the case when I first joined this forum in 2008.

 

[muse1983]

I'm honestly just trying to figure out how anyone would bother to compare a huge update at California Adventure to an extremely small water attraction that is merely part of the much larger and more extravagant FLE. You make it out as if Casey is the absolutely only offering in the upcoming FLE and that it's the only new offering that wdw has planned for the immediate future.

 

[HMF]

I wish that would help, but it is unstoppable at this point, and i fear will bring WDW its own 8/29/1997 at some point.

What event was 8/29/97? The Columbia incident?

 

[WDW1974]

Nah...'74 would be Connor.
I'm the T-100 sent to protect him.
lol

Be careful, the haters (no, not against Disney ... against reason and rational thought and those who advocate critical thinking!) are starting to get on your case as often as mine. They might soon think you're like my ... I dunno ... my ... No. 2!

 

[ScoutN]

What event was 8/29/97? The Columbia incident?

OV-102 Columbia incident was February 1, 2003. Terminator Judgement Day was being referenced.

 

[jakeman]

I live to be challenged, Jake ... what I don't like is certain posters who like to yip at my heels like little puppies looking for attention.

You would rather them just follow you blindly?

I don't take offense. I take it that I've gotten under your skin. ... I don't know how you could prove me wrong when my contention was that WDW fans were/are giving way too much attention to something that doesn't deserve it. That was from quickly reading this and other Disney sites as well as the ever-the-more-self-important fan community in the Twitverse.

Because they aren't. I checked. I can provide websites. It wasn't on the front page of any of the websites you bash on a constant basis. Twitter was skewed towards Carsland both officially and by anyone of note in the fan community today. You. are. wrong.

But you're getting more like JT by the day. You don't ever discuss the real issues in a thread. You look for ways to discredit because you fundamentally disagree with my world/World views.

There's no way of either of us being 'right' by any measurable metric, but I'm truly impressed that you decided to try and prove me wrong anyway.

Always fair and balanced.

What kind of paranoid rambling is this?

Of course you can measure it. You assert that the WDW fan community is reacting in an equal or greater way to Casey's as to Carsland.

You measure that by checking those sites and those social media feeds. If they mention it then it's a check. If they don't then it's a no.

Let me just quote from your first post:

A tiny (insiginificant?) 'addition' ... getting the same type of over-the-top praise and attention amongst the WDW fan community as a multi-year, multi-billion dollar project's completion is on the other coast.

It was not on Inside the Magic, WDWRadio, Allears, Miceage (understandably), or Touringplan's front page. It was in a column on Laughing Place's front page, but who know what's going on there as the formatting was screwed up.

A hashtag search for Carsland, DCA returned more results than Storybook Circus, New Fantasyland, or WDW today.

Where was it? Where was the response greater?

Claiming that people were taking a kiddie fountain too seriously was untrue? I really don't even know how to respond to you.

That wasn't what you postulated in your original post. I quoted it above. That it was getting the same time of praise as Carsland. That's what you said. Is that not what you meant?

And, yes, I was bringing up a conversation in which you were in fact factually wrong, yet you never backed down. I am wrong every now and then and I can admit it ... especially when talking about Disney on a discussion board!

You can't prove that though, just like I can't prove to you because I didn't think to keep my work schedule when I was 19 for an internet argument when I was 32. Obviously that was poor planning on my part.

I worked there, and I never worked past 8:00 p.m. If you don't believe me then we can either move on or you can produce a document that proves me wrong. If you do, I would more than graciously cede that your Disney paperwork hording was greater than mine and I remembered my work schedule incorrectly.

Except that was NOT my assertion at all. I don't believe that to be true AT ALL! Of course, all the real media covering Disney were in Anaheim (or writing about it) and all the social media that could get Disney to pay for it (or use their government aid checks!) were in Anaheim. The only people 'covering' the Casey Junior Fun With Bodily Function WaterPlay Zone were the O-Town based bloggers who weren't 'important' enough to be sent to Anaheim.

Again, read what I am saying ... not views you ascribe to me. I NEVER said any media was covering anything at WDW today at all. I spoke of fan reaction/chatter.

Fine take the media out of it. There was still nothing that you ascribed to in any measurable amount today that was equivalent to the very justified celebration in Anaheim.

Here's an olive branch though, had there been the reaction you said happen today, I would be right there with you in decrying the minor fan boys hurting the brand by gushing over something that should have been a footnote on a park map. Hurting the brand goes both ways. There needs to be moderation. There is very little of it from either end.

The conversion of Toontown Fair to Storybook Circus shouldn't be compare to DCA's transformation at all. That's like two people trading in 1998 Honda Accords. One got a 2012 Accord and the other person got a Mercedes SL550. Which one should be celebrated more?

Also as another olive branch (because really, how mad can we get at each other over the internet? ) I'm right there with you about Liberty Tree Tavern in the other thread. What a train wreck.

 

[HMF]

-

Not sure if this relates, but felt it was worth adding to the conversation.
As many here on this Forum are aware, i am a real fan of Walt Disney World. Like many here, i visit every year and usually love every second of it. The past couple of years however things have been different...not as exciting, not as..well...*Magical*. It could well just be me getting too familar with the place....but i am a self confessed Disney geek who up until recently lived and breathed WDW.

Things have changed. I have had a taste of the West Coast life.
Just returned earlier this week from DisneyLand...before DCA officially re-opened. What i saw at both of those Parks, even at this pre-opening stage, wowed me. It has been a long time. I have been spoiled by the details and numerous new experiences. Me like.

Within two days of returning home, i have decided to return to DisneyLand for my usual autumn *Disney Trip*....NOT Walt Disney World. Part of me is shocked...but then, i feel drawn to all the new experiences out West. I am really looking forward to it...as i cant find anything at the moment to really get excited about in Florida at this point.

Perhaps it is a sign of the times? How many more of you long time, serious WDW fans are blowing off FL this year and going to Walt*s Park instead?

I am. See ya there.

I went to Disneyland in 2006 and even then it outshone WDW (at least Magic Kingdom) DCA was still a mess. Nowadays If I could I would pick DLR over WDW in a heart-beat especially now that Epcot is not what it once was.