Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
We are going July 8 for a few nights. Staying at Paradise Pier.
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Two coasts: One very different world
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Darn it! Nevermind then, I wanted to know if you've ridden the updated Matterhorn. Have a nice trip!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
None of that matters... DL can't sit still ... I've heard there are folks in TDA worried that they're going to lose DL guests to DCA and UNI and the others, especially among the 'we've been to DL before' crowd of tourists ... the ones who spend the most. Disney can't afford to lose a day or two in Anaheim now that DCA is finally a worthy companion to Walt's park, and that's why you're going to see lots more construction walls next year across the esplanade.
Oh, and let me bury this here (folks often miss some of my gems) but since the Wonder experiment in LA kind of piddled out a bit ... I've heard to expect to see a bit larger Disney Cruise Line presence in 2015 in time for DL's 60th!
Fascinating info!
I'm not complaining about new E Tickets for Disneyland, since it's technically been 17 years since Indiana Jones opened in '95. Every new ride added since then (I'll ignore Rocket Rods) has been a heavy refurb of something from the 20th century (Subs '07, Star Tours '11), minor stuff often meant more for marketing than pure showmanship (Pirates Lair '07, Buzz Lightyear '05, Pooh '03, Tarzan '99), or seasonal holiday overlays (Mansion, Small World, Space Mt.). It's time for Disneyland to get something brand new, something not seen before, and something that gets everyone in SoCal talking like Cars Land now does.
If there is a new E Ticket headed to Disneyland under the same general creative leadership that gave us Radiator Springs Racers and Buena Vista Street, then that would be fantastic. If it also includes a C or D Ticket to help soak up crowds, so much the better.
But I'm still just floored that the timeframe on this is so soon on the heels of Cars Land, especially when a greater need appears to be in several WDW parks. I would have fully expected two or three years to go by before we started hearing solid rumors of "what's next" for Disneyland USA, especially with the way the global economy looks this summer.
Meanwhile, on the topic of cruising...
I think part of the reason the Disney Cruise Line out of LA became a non-event is due in large part to the situation in Mexico. The only real destinations you can get to out of LA is Mexico, and people just do not want to risk that now, even if some of the danger there is just media hype. The entire cruise industry in SoCal is hurting because of Mexico's socio-political situation, it's not just Disney. At least Disney has four months out of the year when they can get a boat up to Seattle and offer the safe and sane Alaska itineraries.
It also fascinates me that you never see any marketing synergy for Disney Cruise Line at Disneyland. You've got a built in audience of Disney nuts with 1 Million Annual Passholders, but there is never an ad or poster or mention of any type regarding the Disney Cruise Line when you are on Disneyland Resort property. They've got a brochure stand in a far corner of the lobby of the Disneyland Hotel, near the luggage storage area, and that's the only thing I've ever seen in Anaheim regarding the Cruise Line. Really bizarre non-synergy marketing there!
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
With Aulani now in Hawaii, it would seem perfect to work something out going in that direction from LA...
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
Thanks, our last visit was in April, before the new bobsleds. We stayed at DLH during it's final "polishing" of it's refurb.
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
I think DLR is also missing the boat on ads for DCL...insert laughter. DLR also seemed slow to accept not only the DCL, but also DVC. More than a few CM's look surprised when we show them our DVC member cards for discounts. Alternately at DHS we encountered a CM who never heard of Disneyland, and asked us if it was new.Fascinating info!
I'm not complaining about new E Tickets for Disneyland, since it's technically been 17 years since Indiana Jones opened in '95. Every new ride added since then (I'll ignore Rocket Rods) has been a heavy refurb of something from the 20th century (Subs '07, Star Tours '11), minor stuff often meant more for marketing than pure showmanship (Pirates Lair '07, Buzz Lightyear '05, Pooh '03, Tarzan '99), or seasonal holiday overlays (Mansion, Small World, Space Mt.). It's time for Disneyland to get something brand new, something not seen before, and something that gets everyone in SoCal talking like Cars Land now does.
If there is a new E Ticket headed to Disneyland under the same general creative leadership that gave us Radiator Springs Racers and Buena Vista Street, then that would be fantastic. If it also includes a C or D Ticket to help soak up crowds, so much the better.
But I'm still just floored that the timeframe on this is so soon on the heels of Cars Land, especially when a greater need appears to be in several WDW parks. I would have fully expected two or three years to go by before we started hearing solid rumors of "what's next" for Disneyland USA, especially with the way the global economy looks this summer.
Meanwhile, on the topic of cruising...
I think part of the reason the Disney Cruise Line out of LA became a non-event is due in large part to the situation in Mexico. The only real destinations you can get to out of LA is Mexico, and people just do not want to risk that now, even if some of the danger there is just media hype. The entire cruise industry in SoCal is hurting because of Mexico's socio-political situation, it's not just Disney. At least Disney has four months out of the year when they can get a boat up to Seattle and offer the safe and sane Alaska itineraries.
It also fascinates me that you never see any marketing synergy for Disney Cruise Line at Disneyland. You've got a built in audience of Disney nuts with 1 Million Annual Passholders, but there is never an ad or poster or mention of any type regarding the Disney Cruise Line when you are on Disneyland Resort property. They've got a brochure stand in a far corner of the lobby of the Disneyland Hotel, near the luggage storage area, and that's the only thing I've ever seen in Anaheim regarding the Cruise Line. Really bizarre non-synergy marketing there!
We are using our DVC points for a California Coast cruise in Sept. We have friends at every port except Mexico, and I will only go ashore there to say I did. We do know a few people that have taken the Disney LA to Hawai'i cruise, and loved it. Usually staying at the hotels, or DVC at DLR for a few nights before, and after the cruise.
Like you, I never suspected DLR would get so much lovin' so soon.
Hopefully this will help some to understand that what happens at DL today doesn't mean it will happen in Orlando tomorrow.
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
Is it wrong of me Spirit that I want to see DCA over DL first on my next trip? I feel like I'd see you kicking and screaming dragging me through the Esplanade holding a churro over me to drag me into walt's magic kingdom.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Nah, the TL and Frontierland rumors have been going on for at least a year. And all you are seeing now is more noise because of the success maybe getting these concepts greenlit. Anything would still be years away before completion. Noise now != results soon. When attractions take 2-5 years to design and build - you have to obviously 'think ahead'.
Meanwhile, on the topic of cruising...
I think that will change once the itineraries get more reliable out there and now that the Fantasy is online.
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
Wow, they are doing such a great job with those Traditions courses these days...
that's just sad.
Mike K
Active Member
I do agree with you that an entire park dedicated to Marvel is a little too much. Even a land in a new park might be pushing it but that's the limit I'd prefer. The Marvel characters utilized in thrill rides definitely seems more Universal than Disney but I suppose that stems from Universal being the first ones to take advantage of the brand. I'd be curious to see what Disney could accomplish if they tried to take what Universal does and hopefully finds a way to make it even better. The news of this didn't surprise me one bit as Disney shelled out a lot of capital to obtain Marvel so taking advantage of that acquisition is high on their priorities. That said, I'll be open to see concept art for what Disney proposes to do exactly with Marvel at a third gate but as of now I'm standing firm that they shouldn't put all there eggs in one basket. Thanks again '74 for sharing your thoughts on the matter!
What we all have to remember is that DL has about 1 million annual pass holders. The parks are mostly frequented by locals and APers. WDW is mostly a tourist trap made up of visitors from the eastern seaboard of the US as well as the midwest. More visitors from Europe and South America visit WDW. There are a ton of DVC resorts where people have plunked thousands to visit at least once a year. DL has one teeny tiny DVC that books up rather quickly.
What does this mean? WDW doesn't have to update, maintain, and re-evaluate its theme parks frequently since the mentality at TDO is "they will come anyway...even after we raise our prices". FLE is coming in as a "fix" to the HP situation at USF. Unfortunately not much "new" is coming to this area other than the very few new attractions and two repurposed attractions although the Disney placemaking is at its best.There will be a nice restaurant coming but chances of getting in anytime in the next few years will be a disappointment (I mean this will be the new 180 days in advance calling at 7am restaurant, well before it becomes a 2 meal choice on the DDP).
What DL did for its 50th anniversary set the bar very high for any future expansion or refurbishment. Now with Carsland and Buena Vista St we have a new bar set for our expectations. Sure FLE in WDW is/will be hitting that mark, but it is not enough to stay ahead of the competition. USH is now going forward with its own HP expansion plans to compete with DL even though Southern California theme parks/zoos all seem to work together unlike its Florida counterparts. Will this DCA cleanup be enough to compete with USH in the future? Will WDW FLE be enough to stay ahead of USF (with HP, upcoming HP expansion, and Transformers and Spiderman)?
As for DLR, I truly feel that DL should and will get an expansion in the next few years. I also hope that TDA loosens up the purse strings a bit and competes the DCA makeover. I also hope that with the wildly successful Carsland, the future expansion there (how about that enclosed Drive In restaurant and another attraction). California should be set. Although reports of Marvel entering the picture may change that.
As for WDW, complacency is not the answer. TDO needs to step foot out into the parks and see the urgency in fixing up the parks. DAK has such potential. Making this park available to the night time crowds would help. This would mean a night-time parade, night-time show, and more attractions. DHS is the park that needs the most work and I think that almost everyone would agree with that. Expansion is definitely needed into the tram area to the left of the park. The back of the park needs to be leveled and rebuilt. A total retheme of the entire park would help since it is NOT a working moviemaking park. The set piece them now looks cheap. Talk to Lucas and add another Indy attraction and SW attraction and themed cantina restaurant. Work with the fantastic Pixar movies we have and add three attractions to Pixar Place and move Pizza Planet to its rightful location. Send stale shows to pasture (VOTLM and BATB show) and bring in new. EPCOT needs and should get new countries. This has been bantered around for years and it has been too long. Another pavilion in FWQ is necessary as well as a restructuring of the grounds. Epcot should not be a place to pay $80 to get in only to go for dinner. Adding attractions to Canada (log flume), Japan (bullet train), Germany (river boat ride) would be a nice start. MK also needs more tlc. Re-haul of Tomorrowland is necessary. More attractions can and should be be added in and around Frontierland.
Is there money for all this? I'm sure there is, but I don't want my stock to plummet. DCL took a big chunk out of the coffers, but they seem to be doing ok. WDW just needs to stop waiting to see if an attraction works in DL and then cloning.
What does this mean? WDW doesn't have to update, maintain, and re-evaluate its theme parks frequently since the mentality at TDO is "they will come anyway...even after we raise our prices". FLE is coming in as a "fix" to the HP situation at USF. Unfortunately not much "new" is coming to this area other than the very few new attractions and two repurposed attractions although the Disney placemaking is at its best.There will be a nice restaurant coming but chances of getting in anytime in the next few years will be a disappointment (I mean this will be the new 180 days in advance calling at 7am restaurant, well before it becomes a 2 meal choice on the DDP).
What DL did for its 50th anniversary set the bar very high for any future expansion or refurbishment. Now with Carsland and Buena Vista St we have a new bar set for our expectations. Sure FLE in WDW is/will be hitting that mark, but it is not enough to stay ahead of the competition. USH is now going forward with its own HP expansion plans to compete with DL even though Southern California theme parks/zoos all seem to work together unlike its Florida counterparts. Will this DCA cleanup be enough to compete with USH in the future? Will WDW FLE be enough to stay ahead of USF (with HP, upcoming HP expansion, and Transformers and Spiderman)?
As for DLR, I truly feel that DL should and will get an expansion in the next few years. I also hope that TDA loosens up the purse strings a bit and competes the DCA makeover. I also hope that with the wildly successful Carsland, the future expansion there (how about that enclosed Drive In restaurant and another attraction). California should be set. Although reports of Marvel entering the picture may change that.
As for WDW, complacency is not the answer. TDO needs to step foot out into the parks and see the urgency in fixing up the parks. DAK has such potential. Making this park available to the night time crowds would help. This would mean a night-time parade, night-time show, and more attractions. DHS is the park that needs the most work and I think that almost everyone would agree with that. Expansion is definitely needed into the tram area to the left of the park. The back of the park needs to be leveled and rebuilt. A total retheme of the entire park would help since it is NOT a working moviemaking park. The set piece them now looks cheap. Talk to Lucas and add another Indy attraction and SW attraction and themed cantina restaurant. Work with the fantastic Pixar movies we have and add three attractions to Pixar Place and move Pizza Planet to its rightful location. Send stale shows to pasture (VOTLM and BATB show) and bring in new. EPCOT needs and should get new countries. This has been bantered around for years and it has been too long. Another pavilion in FWQ is necessary as well as a restructuring of the grounds. Epcot should not be a place to pay $80 to get in only to go for dinner. Adding attractions to Canada (log flume), Japan (bullet train), Germany (river boat ride) would be a nice start. MK also needs more tlc. Re-haul of Tomorrowland is necessary. More attractions can and should be be added in and around Frontierland.
Is there money for all this? I'm sure there is, but I don't want my stock to plummet. DCL took a big chunk out of the coffers, but they seem to be doing ok. WDW just needs to stop waiting to see if an attraction works in DL and then cloning.
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this is an old argument and grossly inaccurate.
I would double check your sources. This is no longer the case. DL and WDW are almost on even ground when it comes to statistics of their new guests, Annual Passholders, and returning guests. I believe that it is for this reason that they are no longer posting individual stats for each domestic resort, and rather are posting combined totals.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I think you are misapplying tidbits of info.
The swing of AP visits vs other types at DL isn't as a high as some believe.. but there is nothing to believe the type of day-dodger AP demographic applies to WDW at 50%+ like it does at DLR.
DLR still caters extensively to the daytripper AP. From merchandise events, to seasonal offerings, to special AP events, far more extensive 'AP previews', and more.
It's not so much the type of media the person holds (AP or not) but the person's visiting style and frequency. Many many AP holders for WDW are simply people who bought APs because they planned on making at least 2 trips in a 12m period. Vastly different from a person who comes for a few hours at a time (of which there are at WDW too..but nothing like the scale of DLR).
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
@ flynnibus
Im not saying its a dead even. However the number of AP owners to the Florida property -vs- the Anaheim Property is closer than we think ... I would wager largely due to the DVC. But I think WDW also caters to the local throughout the year in terms of festivals and activities, perhaps on a larger scale than DL ... Food and Wine, Flower and Garden, and they have the usuals like the Halloween and Christmas parties. Where they differ is in the seasonal overlays.
Now yes, guest who come for an evening are more likely at DL and probably due to a couple things like location and ease of entrance onto the property (If you call evening SoCal traffic easy to navigate). But I strongly believe the reason they stopped releasing the property specific numbers is because Anaheim was really closing in on Orlando's bottom line.
Im not saying its a dead even. However the number of AP owners to the Florida property -vs- the Anaheim Property is closer than we think ... I would wager largely due to the DVC. But I think WDW also caters to the local throughout the year in terms of festivals and activities, perhaps on a larger scale than DL ... Food and Wine, Flower and Garden, and they have the usuals like the Halloween and Christmas parties. Where they differ is in the seasonal overlays.
Now yes, guest who come for an evening are more likely at DL and probably due to a couple things like location and ease of entrance onto the property (If you call evening SoCal traffic easy to navigate). But I strongly believe the reason they stopped releasing the property specific numbers is because Anaheim was really closing in on Orlando's bottom line.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
They decided to combine the domestic park numbers to hide the massive decline in WDW visitation during the last several years. It worked!
http://ocresort.ocregister.com/2010/12/07/disney-hides-anaheim-parks-attendance-numbers/63494/
Also, DL is not going to see any new major capital investments for a long time according to Bob Iger:
"We don't have any other big projects right now" in the U.S., Disney President and Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger said during a separate presentation. The lone exception, Iger added, is a "land" planned for Disney's Animal Kingdom based on the movie"Avatar,"which isn't expected to open until at least 2016.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-daily-disney/os-disney-parks-capital-spending-20120614,0,7260737.story
Yeah I can only speak for my family. We are 9 people from MA and we have replaced 3 WDW trips in the past 2 years with trips to DL instead. We will be going to DL again in July instead of going to WDW. We figure that WDW will still be there, but there are new and exciting things to see in DL and we've absolutely LOVED the last 3 visits. I can't see us returning to a twice yearly frequency of visiting WDW unless something drastically changes. We will be replacing at least 1 (if not 2 as has been the case for the past few years) of our annual trips to WDW with DL.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I have heard the DVC and stupid tourist argument a lot of times around here in reference to WDW. If the majority of people going to DL are locals and this has always been the case then how do you explain the 17 years of virtually no major additions to DL. Don't quote me on the 17 years since I am not a frequent visitor to DL but I have Seen it posted here a number of times. Before this major addition it wasn't like they were getting a new e ticket ride every year.
In addition, WDW has always been more tourists than locals. Why did they expand to 4 parks and add attractions in the past? They could have just waited for the stupid tourists to come back. As far as DVC, that is a more recent development but still probably makes up less than 10% of the total visitors to WDW. I know some people want to believe that DVC is the root cause of all the problems at WDW but the low percentage of total visitors just doesn't make it very likely.
Lee
Adventurer
Not true.
They have two substantial projects in active development, even "fast tracked" according to a few sources.
Perhaps Bob doesn't consider them "major" since they won't cost $500mil....