Two coasts: One very different world

[Jim Handy]

I don't think @WDWFigment really needs to be backed up, but here goes...

None of you should care how his vacation time affects his work. It's really none of your business to call that in to question and everyone is entitled to a little vacation time. And for any of you thinking Tom is all rainbows and gumdrops when he talks about Disney parks, that's not the case regardless of any credentials he may possess. I think we've seen both positive and negative opinions from him.

I hope you enjoyed your trip, Tom, and I look forward to what you can bring to discussion because of it. And the photos.

 

[Tigger1988]

I'm not sure why the mods are allowing personal attacks on members. Tom's personal life is really no one's business. Unless you're his boss what does it matter to you how many vacation days he uses?

 

[wannab@dis]

As predicted, I found out about this thread thanks to an email from another user. Even though I don't think I've done anything wrong, it was a great way to ruin my final 30 minutes at Disneyland that I would have otherwise spent gazing at the Carthay Circle fountain. Such is life, I guess.

It's a shame that you let it interfere with your time at DL, even for a short time. Personally, I take anything '74 and his groupies say about you and others who have limited access due to fan sites / publications as pure jealousy! They only wish they could trade places. I also think it's a shame the mods turn a blind eye to '74 and his personal attacks on others, whether specific people as in your case, or ad homs he lobs at the general public he thinks is below him, or his continual political jabs.

 

[misterID]

I can say Tom has made it clear he's visiting DLR more and WDW less, because of all the things we've mentioned. But I still don't think WDW/TDO deserves points for bringing back the Orange Bird

 

[misterID]

It's a shame that you let it interfere with your time at DL, even for a short time. Personally, I take anything '74 and his groupies say about you and others who have limited access due to fan sites / publications as pure jealousy! They only wish they could trade places. I also think it's a shame the mods turn a blind eye to '74 and his personal attacks on others, whether specific people as in your case, or ad homs he lobs at the general public he thinks is below him, or his continual political jabs.

Ignore him, then. Pretty simple if he affects you this much.

 

[wannab@dis]

Ignore him, then. Pretty simple if he affects you this much.

Doesn't affect me, but it does affect the forum community.

 

[misterID]

Doesn't affect me, but it does affect the forum community.

Not for most people, it seems. No need to roll your eyes, it's actually pretty easy to ignore him. There are plenty of trolls here who try to bait people into arguments and political debates. It only seems a problem when those opinions and political stabs are the ones you don't agree with.

Seriously, I can put up with JT and Jimmy, even in the same thread... Spirit brings real debate to these boards, and insight. If he rubs you the wrong way, you can easily avoid it.

 

[HenryMystic]

If not for Spirit, would anything meaningful be discussed?

 

[xdan0920]

It's a shame that you let it interfere with your time at DL, even for a short time. Personally, I take anything '74 and his groupies say about you and others who have limited access due to fan sites / publications as pure jealousy! They only wish they could trade places. I also think it's a shame the mods turn a blind eye to '74 and his personal attacks on others, whether specific people as in your case, or ad homs he lobs at the general public he thinks is below him, or his continual political jabs.

I'm not sure why the mods are allowing personal attacks on members. Tom's personal life is really no one's business. Unless you're his boss what does it matter to you how many vacation days he uses?

I'm not entirely sure that Tom was being "attacked". 74 has been very clear in the past on his opinion of the Disney Lifestyle sites, and their overall impact on the Disney fan community.

Tom has been a respected member of this forum for quite a while, his opinion carries weight, and his talents can't be denied. He is now, however, a part of the Disney fan site machine. The question of wether or not his new status will effect his ability to give a fair, unbiased opinion, is a reasonable one. We have seen many folks who get on the Disney gravy train and all of a sudden everything is pixie dust and roses.

Now let me be clear, I am not saying this is going to happen with Tom, and the fact that he is here answering the questions posed shows that he is at the very least going to be honest about how is opinion is being effected by the DIsney freebies.

 

[wannab@dis]

I'm not entirely sure that Tom was being "attacked". 74 has been very clear in the past on his opinion of the Disney Lifestyle sites, and their overall impact on the Disney fan community.

Tom has been a respected member of this forum for quite a while, his opinion carries weight, and his talents can't be denied. He is now, however, a part of the Disney fan site machine. The question of wether or not his new status will effect his ability to give a fair, unbiased opinion, is a reasonable one. We have seen many folks who get on the Disney gravy train and all of a sudden everything is pixie dust and roses.

Now let me be clear, I am not saying this is going to happen with Tom, and the fact that he is here answering the questions posed shows that he is at the very least going to be honest about how is opinion is being effected by the DIsney freebies.

If someone wants to make observations about fan sites, fine, do so. I have no problem if you say you do not trust "Site A" because you think they have biased reporting. However, I don't believe you should name specific people, especially members of this forum. '74 and some others go way too far into the personal attacks naming specific people and trying to vilify them. If you think Tom's photography at Touring Plans or some of the blogs brings bias to his opinions, then ignore them or make a comment at that site / blog.

By the way, I'm sure you would turn down any Disney freebies...

 

[xdan0920]

If someone wants to make observations about fan sites, fine, do so. I have no problem if you say you do not trust "Site A" because you think they have biased reporting. However, I don't believe you should name specific people, especially members of this forum. '74 and some others go way too far into the personal attacks naming specific people and trying to vilify them. If you think Tom's photography at Touring Plans or some of the blogs brings bias to his opinions, then ignore them or make a comment at that site / blog.

By the way, I'm sure you would turn down any Disney freebies...

Again, I do not think Tom was vilified, attacked, or anything of the sort. I think he was used as an example because of his notoriety here, and the fact that based on past experience with him, the odds of him answering for himself were very high. Whereas, others who are riding the Disney freebie express do not.

I have no interest in becoming anything resembling an employee of a Disney fan site. My plate is sufficiently full, taking on a side job blogging, or reporting, or PRing for the mouse is something I would have no interest in at all. So yes, I would turn down any Disney Freebies.

 

[muse1983]

It's a shame that you let it interfere with your time at DL, even for a short time. Personally, I take anything '74 and his groupies say about you and others who have limited access due to fan sites / publications as pure jealousy! They only wish they could trade places. I also think it's a shame the mods turn a blind eye to '74 and his personal attacks on others, whether specific people as in your case, or ad homs he lobs at the general public he thinks is below him, or his continual political jabs.

Agreed! The ignore option has allowed me to still enjoy WDWMAGIC and have normal, friendly conversations with other fans of the parks without worrying about the obviously insecure handful of trolls who have a little to much time on their hands.

 

[Tigger1988]

He was absolutely being attacked and has been in multiple posts by 74. Calling someone's personal life into play is wrong. Even moreso coming from someone who was playing the "do you know what it's like to be stalked??!!" card in this very post.

 

[lebeau]

I won't weigh in on the Great Bricker Debate of 2012 except to say that "Ignore" is your friend. They actually built in a feature. Use it. You'll be happier.

This whole ordeal raises a question. If I recall correctly, the Unofficial Guide makes a pretty big deal of the fact that they pay for all their own trips. No freebies. Is that not true of TP.com as well? If not, it would explain the tone of the TP blog which is much sunnier than the book it is associated with.

 

[Tom]

I won't weigh in on the Great Bricker Debate of 2012 except to say that "Ignore" is your friend. They actually built in a feature. Use it. You'll be happier.

This whole ordeal raises a question. If I recall correctly, the Unofficial Guide makes a pretty big deal of the fact that they pay for all their own trips. No freebies. Is that not true of TP.com as well? If not, it would explain the tone of the TP blog which is much sunnier than the book it is associated with.

It just depends on why Disney is inviting someone. The Unofficial Guide and TP.com both qualify as "media". And since they're Disney-centric, Disney likes to have those kinds of folks at their events because that's just one more blog that will be spreading the word on the web.

Even if it's not a 100% positive write-up, "any press is good press." If Disney thinks a credential to their opening of something will send you home armed with blog-worthy material, and a lot of eyes will see your material, of course they're going to bring you out.

They did the same thing with the pre-launch of the Fantasy. We were surrounded by Travel Agents and Media (including Len Testa, Lou Mongello, Deb Wills and many others). It's free publicity through hundreds of different media outlets and venues. It's smart business...even if the people you invite aren't always 100% behind what you do.

 

[AmongMadPeople]

This whole ordeal raises a question. If I recall correctly, the Unofficial Guide makes a pretty big deal of the fact that they pay for all their own trips. No freebies. Is that not true of TP.com as well? If not, it would explain the tone of the TP blog which is much sunnier than the book it is associated with.

I can't pretend to know Disney covers/doesn't cover for these media events, but I would hesitate to draw too many conclusions from a one day press event for the relaunch of a park.

It's been my personal impression that the TP site and its blog have grown and developed considerably in the last year or so. I have a shelf full of UOGs and have subscribed to TP for a few years, but only started following the blog relatively recently. I don't know if that is coincidence, or if the blog really did evolve in that time frame. Although the book and website are the product of one brain child, they are still separate. As many contributors there are for their blog, I think a different group of people (with some overlap) are responsible for writing the book. A few of the contributors to their blog are regular members on this forum. They're normal people, just with better connections.

 

[AswaySuller]

What is this thread actually about?

 

[TP2000]

What is this thread actually about?

Two different coasts and two different types of "Disney".

Here's an interesting note from Al Lutz on the front of Miceage today, after DCA's big debut weekend...

EDITOR’S NOTE 6/18: California Adventure set a new daily attendance record with 43,000 people on Fri the 15th, then on Sun the 17th they broke that new record by getting over 45,000. What has Disney executives surprised is that the park felt busy but not overcrowded with those huge numbers, and the first batch of customer service ratings from this weekend are through the roof. DCA has suddenly become a park that can soak up crowds that want to happily stay there all day. - Al Lutz

So the new DCA is off and running. Now, an opening weekend is just one weekend, and we'll all need to wait and see what the rest of the summer and this year is like. But it bodes well at least for Anaheim. With a new E Ticket for Disneyland strongly rumored by knowledgeable insiders, it's an exciting time in SoCal.

But it could also bode well for WDW and their ride-light or theme-messy parks too. If a major infusion of cash to rebrand a park and populate it with a half dozen new rides and night spectaculars opening in quick succesion over 2 years time works for DCA, it might also work for DHS or DAK, or at least World Showcase.

 

[baymenxpac]

I first stated on LaughingPace.com around 2004 that DVCers were WDW's best hope for change, yet as time goes on that hope dims.

I'm not sure why, but I get the feeling that most DVCers either love WDW today or like it enough to not complan about anything that doesn't directly effect them. For instance if you were a SS owner and weren't close enough to the main pool (one of my faves at WDW, BTW) you simply complained until they added a second feature pool last year. If you own at the villas at DAK and don't like the Mara menu offerings, you simply complained until you got them changed.

But the big stuff? Doesn't seem to matter. I think that's because DVC hasn't been around that long. Just a bit over 20 years now. And most of its growth has happened in the last decade (WDW's worst, IMHO), so many guests are conditioned to a lower quality product that doesn't ever change much. I think many of those who get fed up with Disney ... those are the ones selling their points at OKW and Vero for ridiculously low amounts ($45 anyone? And, yes, at those resale prices I've actually thought about buying!)

But now as we sit here in 2012 with almost nothing at all new since 2008 (when the Studios debutted both AIE and TSMM within three months time), I think DVCers are mostly happy with their Pixie Dust.

i'm a couple pages behind in this thread, but let me say something:

if what '74 is in fact the case, then consider me a DVCer ready to get loud. like...very loud.

my family bought in in '93. i had three other trips under my belt when we finally did buy our OKW points. i've been conditioned for the best. if we go by '74's timeline of the golden age, i had 5 trips in the golden age. plenty more on the descent into kiddie land USA. and i want things back the way they were.

before our honeymoon last year, my wife and i watched the '93 vacation planner VHS that i used to throw on with my family before a trip. other than making it me feel really old, it also put into perspective how much had changed not only at the resort, but how different the marketing was. you saw all age demographics represented, all offerings, and an emphasis on customer service, affordability, convenience, and most of all, variety. ya know, like...i may think epcot is a little yawn worthy when i'm 8, but i'll appreciate it like my parents do when i'm older.

now: a one republic song that is meant to tug on your heart strings of nostalgia, as you watch dumbo fly by or buzz lightyear spin while he teaches a little boy how to "fly". come on. that's amateur hour.

i'm a DVCer, i love disney world, but i'm about to enter that age where i either will buy more points, take my children there once/twice a year, and start another iteration of a "disney family" or i'll take the money elsewhere.

 

[misterID]

Two different coasts and two different types of "Disney".

Here's an interesting note from Al Lutz on the front of Miceage today, after DCA's big debut weekend...



So the new DCA is off and running. Now, an opening weekend is just one weekend, and we'll all need to wait and see what the rest of the summer and this year is like. But it bodes well at least for Anaheim. With a new E Ticket for Disneyland strongly rumored by knowledgeable insiders, it's an exciting time in SoCal.

But it could also bode well for WDW and their ride-light or theme-messy parks too. If a major infusion of cash to rebrand a park and populate it with a half dozen new rides and night spectaculars opening in quick succesion over 2 years time works for DCA, it might also work for DHS or DAK, or at least World Showcase.

That would be nice, but the cash infusion has never been WDW's problem. They're getting a billion dollar investment, but it's in NextGen, not the parks.