News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Eh. There are bad Imagineers.

For example, no MBA said, “make sure Dame Judi Dench’s narration is dripping with enough condescension to make it clear that we think you were asleep during high school history class.” Imagineers wrote the script.
Eh I still go back to its manly a management problem. For example Frozen Ever After is good, what's there is nice. The problem is it's there. The makeover of Imagination was awful because of the horrendous budget they were allowed. It all stems from the top, the Imagineers are just doing what's mandated.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
That is hardly an example of a bad imagineer, and that script was approved by not only the sponsor but every tier of production of the attraction...Nor is it even worthy of noting as something bad...Bad would be the horribly done meet and greets over all of the properties... Bad would be putting attractions that don't match the mission of the park in place... Bad would be choosing Toy Story Land over a fully realized Carsland...
I believe the Imagineers can still do beautiful things, they just need better direction.

Eh I still go back to its manly a management problem. For example Frozen Ever After is good, what's there is nice. The problem is it's there. The makeover of Imagination was awful because of the horrendous budget they were allowed. It all stems from the top, the Imagineers are just doing what's mandated.
I don’t give modern Imagineers nearly as much credit as you both. I wish I shared your optimism. They were given $1 billion for Galaxy’s Edge and made mind-boggling errors. Is it their fault the table service was cut? Of course not. Is it their fault many guests don’t think Smuggler’s Run is fun? Yeah. Even Rise of the Resistance is phenomenal but cannot meet the demands of a Disney theme park. That is a huge blunder.

Did a manager do the scaling on Beast’s Castle? Or the scaling for really any of New Fantasyland?

Did a manager demand that there be enormous tacos in World Showcase Lagoon?

It’s amateur hour at WDI and they keep losing veteran talent.

You have a bad mixture of management who want “MORE DISNEY!” and Imagineers who are unaware of basics of theme park design (we don’t need shade in a Toy Story land in Florida!).

What do we think will happen at DAK without Rohde to defend it?
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Scott’s masterpiece is still Spider-Man imho. I’m going to guess it was management and not Scott’s talent.

But I agree something is off with wdi
Management did not force Trowbridge to build a super E-ticket that doesn’t work. WDI picked the ride systems. I think an issue is there is not enough talent to create adequate checks-and-balances. The Disney classics weren‘t designed in a vacuum by one Imagineer. All Imagineers asked each other hard questions about their designs (Walt, as well, in the ‘50s and ‘60s). Now, someone brown-noses enough to get a project and that person then manages a team. The ants just do as they are told.

Blame management for the lack of streetmosphere.
 
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
It is absolutely their fault. They lost control of costs elsewhere and had to make cuts. More often the "budget cuts" people complain about are cuts made to keep the project in budget because other aspects are exceeding the budget.
But when a 3rd party cable car costs over 200 million you (they) have to start thinking why.
 
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larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
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RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Scott’s masterpiece is still Spider-Man imho. I’m going to guess it was management and not Scott’s talent.

But I agree something is off with wdi
It is my understanding that the "choice" of new trilogy for the Galaxy's Edge timeline was Scott's.

Even with that choice, @MansionButler84's points about the major issues with the land cannot be dismissed. Underbuilding ride capacity has been a HUGE issue over the last decade. They can build great things, but if they're unreliable or don't have the necessary capacity they need to be dropped down a peg.

They also missed the mark on the Smugglers Run ride film. The good thing is, that that's more fixable than a capacity issue.

It really is an issue of getting things 80-85% correct. Theming in Pandora is top notch for example, but I knew before ground breaking that ride capacity on Flight of Passage was going to be comparable to Soarin' with two theaters. How does that get approved? Na'vi River Journey needs another 2+ minutes of ride time. They also shouldn't be in the same building.

What's especially frustrating is that things like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, Flight of Passage, Frozen Ever After, Na'vi River Journey and Rise of the Resistance opened after they felt obligated to increase capacity to things like Dumbo, Soarin' and Toy Story Mania.
 
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TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that the "choice" of new trilogy for the Galaxy's Edge timeline was Scott's.
I don’t know any insider information but I highly doubt that. I don’t think anyone at WDI had any say on that.

But perhaps he did push to keep everything in the new trilogy so it was all consistent? Who knows.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that the "choice" of new trilogy for the Galaxy's Edge timeline was Scott's.

Even with that choice, @MansionButler84's points about the major issues with the land cannot be dismissed. Underbuilding ride capacity has been a HUGE issue over the last decade. You can build great things, but if they're unreliable or don't have the necessary capacity they need to be dropped down a peg.

They also missed the mark on the Smugglers Run ride film. The good thing is, that that's more fixable than a capacity issue.

It really is an issue of getting things 80-85% correct. Theming in Pandora is top notch for example, but I knew before ground breaking that ride capacity on Flight of Passage was going to be comparable to Soarin' with two theaters. How does that get approved? Na'vi River Journey needs another 2+ minutes of ride time. They also shouldn't be in the same building.

What's especially frustrating is that things like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, Flight of Passage, Frozen Ever After, Na'vi River Journey and Rise of the Resistance opened after they felt obligated to increase capacity to things like Dumbo, Soarin' and Toy Story Mania.
When will they learn? Yes, WDI has a budgetary problem that must be examined (why hasn’t it been?). But if the company is willing to, say, drop $400 million on a new coaster, it shouldn’t be that hard to say, “each train needs 30 seats, not 18 or 20.” Somehow they understood this for Big Thunder and Everest but not now. That points to a loss of experienced Imagineers and the few who are still around being overly confident in themselves.

Rohde was amazing and made mistakes. Watch him defend Dino-Rama. Granted, perhaps he was being inauthentic to preserve his power (playing the long-game with knowledge that bigger projects would come along)?

Imagine how hard it will be to get on TRON when it opens in a park with almost double SDL’s attendance.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
They also shouldn't be in the same building.
Why? Most of the Magic Kingdom uses shared facilities. People marvel at things like the way Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, Alice in Wonderland and even a bit of Peter Pan‘s Flight are layered at Disneyland. Poor use of space is one of the biggest problems with current Disney. It is how you get tens of acres that only hold a few things with little room for easy expansion.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Why? Most of the Magic Kingdom uses shared facilities. People marvel at things like the way Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, Alice in Wonderland and even a bit of Peter Pan‘s Flight are layered at Disneyland. Poor use of space is one of the biggest problems with current Disney. It is how you get tens of acres that only hold a few things with little room for easy expansion.
Power-related issues. The type of park management issue that WDI seems to ignore now. Build something pretty and don’t worry about actually running it.

Remember the fluorescent, reactive walkways designed for Pandora? I expect WDI could have pulled it off for Epcot in 1982 but couldn’t figure it out at DAK in 2017!

Ever look around Rome and say, “my goodness they could do incredible things back then. Where did all that knowledge go?” It died with people.

The same thing is happening at Disney and the pandemic will exacerbate that. So much talent—gone.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
When will they learn? Yes, WDI has a budgetary problem that must be examined (why hasn’t it been?). But if the company is willing to, say, drop $400 million on a new coaster, it shouldn’t be that hard to say, “each train needs 30 seats, not 18 or 20.” Somehow they understood this for Big Thunder and Everest but not now. That points to a loss of experienced Imagineers and the few who are still around being overly confident in themselves.

Rohde was amazing and made mistakes. Watch him defend Dino-Rama. Granted, perhaps he was being inauthentic to preserve his power (playing the long-game with knowledge that bigger projects would come along)?

Imagine how hard it will be to get on TRON when it opens in a park with almost double SDL’s attendance.
In fairness - and I'm generally inclined to agree with this post - Rohde's defense of DinoRama is basically that it's thematically sound, not that guests are wrong if they don't enjoy it.

I don't think he's ever dismissed the notion that the area overall has failed to connect with guests, he's simply defended the lens through which they designed it as a legitimate thematic choice. Doesn't mean Dinorama ultimately "worked" - Themed Design is an empirical art form, and no amount of finger wagging can convince guests to enjoy something if they simply don't - but lots of critiques write off the land as an exercise in ripping off the guest both financially and thematically, and that's not really what happened there.
 

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