Trespassing third parties

[LittleBuford]

A bit off-topic, but are there any other non-Americans for whom this use of the word “trespass” sounds really strange, no matter how many times you encounter it?

 

[flynnibus]

I get wanting to prevent DAS abuse, but the way some folks were referenced in the article just suggested they were full trip planners who planned everything for a family so they didn't need to spend hours on research.

It's called "throwing a wide net"

Rather than getting into spats about who REALLY is doing what... Disney leans on the clear and obvious distinction they have about commercial operating in the parks. Drop the hammer... make a point... and watch the abusers rethink after seeing what they see. So they will potentially stop being so blatant about it.

 

[nickys]

If these “tour guides” are using DAS honestly there is no need to trespass them imo. All they need to do is basically update a policy preventing you from basically changing your family/friends group constantly

And what if you or I want to go to Disney with different family members or groups of friends?

Let’s say Amy goes once a year with her immediate family in late May. Then they go in August with various aunties, cousins and her parents. And she has a girls getaway in February with a group of friends - of whom 2 or 3 are regulars and others join some years.

Does she have to wade through 30 people to select her group every time she books a G+ ride?

 

[DisneyCane]

What if they buy me a dole whip?

I guess it depends if it was a gift or if you specified one as your "fee for service." I guess it's like the "working girls" who require "donations" for companionship to try and skirt the law.

 

[flynnibus]

BUT! While I get the undercutting argument, you gotta admit, the customer segment that would pay for a VIP tour has almost no overlap with the group that will pay for 3rd party concierge. If TDO isn't going to market an appropriately priced service to the right segment, then they're just being prissy little s-its because they can.

So you're saying you'd support Walmart setting up a kiosk and selling .75 sodas because Disney isn't offering that price point?
Simply because Disney isn't serving a particular opportunity does not negate Disney's right to exclusivity over their property.

I could also be a snot and say that if the whole argument was about the customer receiving their value while on Disney property (mentioned in the article) then shouldn't customers NOT be allowed to consume information from ANY source other than Disney while on their property? By the logic Disney has applied, read the Unofficial Guide all you want, just not while your in the park. The logic is the exact same reasoning.

No, it's not.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but, as usual, Disney seems to have handled this about as poorly as possible. Which leads me to believe that either (a) Disney doesn't really care about the optics on this or (b) Disney has no one intelligent or caring enough to have crafted policy and procedures so it would have been handled better. I'm not sure which of those actually concerns me more.

It's called 'sending a message'

Nearly everyone who has been tresspassed from the park for doing far worse things has always gotten back in later. These folks will have to live on their Universal APs for a year.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you go to a roller or ice rink with your kids or friends who have never skated before, nobody is going to care if you’re helping them figure things out and learn how to skate. But if you start openly giving lessons for payment without going through them then they’re going to put a stop to it. And the way a lot of places work, where you pay for admission and then pay the coach, they’d even likely be making more money off of you because they usually offer admission discounts to those taking private lessons.

 

[nickys]

Yes they do. There are tour group leaders and travel agents that make reservations.

They tend not to charge the members of the group by the hour during their stay.

 

[nickys]

A bit off-topic, but are there any other non-Americans for whom this use of the word “trespass” sounds really strange, no matter how many times you encounter it?

I’ve heard it used in this context too in the UK.

 

[flynnibus]

If you go to a roller or ice rink with your kids or friends who have never skated before, nobody is going to care if you’re helping them figure things out and learn how to skate. But if you start openly giving lessons for payment without going through them then they’re going to put a stop to it. And the way a lot of places work, where you pay for admission and then pay the coach, they’d even likely be making more money off of you because they usually offer admission discounts to those taking private lessons.

Yup... do the same for 'swim lessons' in your community pools, etc and you'll quickly learn the same thing. Access does not equate to right to operate as a business.

 

[phillip9698]

Haven’t had a lot of interactions with you but are you attempting to insult my intelligence? It could definitely come across that way and I don’t appreciate it.

I’m not talking about “foreign groups” exclusively - lots of tour companies offer packages for all sorts of groups. This includes groups with special needs, groups of people that love gardening or marine life, groups of seniors, groups that just like to travel in groups haha.

So if you have groups of 10 or more you can be a “tour guide” but if it’s a smaller group you get trespassed by police?

One group works with Disney to purchase large amounts of group rate tickets and arent undercutting a service Disney offers.

The other group has a business set up to undercut a service Disney offers. If you Google "Disney World Tour Guide" the very first hit literally says "WDW VIP Tours - Dont Overpay". The business is literally telling you not to pay Disney for their service, use us instead.

See the difference?

 

[AEfx]

Could be an image thing as well. While you may not outwardly represent yourself as an "official spokesperson" for Disney, if another guest sees someone giving a group a tour around the park, they may assume the tour guide is an official tour guide for Disney and then anything the guide says may be held to scrutiny. Similar to why they are cautious about letting adults where costumes in the park during non-Halloween times.

I believe this is a big part of it.

Until reading the article in the OP, I had no idea just how widespread this was, or the amount people charge for it.

Basically, it is one thing when they were occasional, unobtrusive to guests - but when there are this many of them operating, full-time and constantly in the parks, with groups this large, and making thousands of dollars a day apparently - it clearly isn't something Disney wants to support.

I don't have a ton of sympathy - when you create an non-sanctioned business for yourself on the back of another company, which is clearly against the rules, and just skate by on the non-enforcement of those rules - you should be prepared for this outcome when your entire model is based on operating on a private property you have no right to operate on.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’ve heard it used in this context too in the UK.

I’m referring to when Americans say that a person was trespassed (i.e., thrown out for trespassing), or that Disney trespassed a person (i.e., threw someone out for trespassing). I’ve never heard the word used in that sense outside the US. I always understood trespassing to be the offence, not the punishment.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They tend not to charge the members of the group by the hour during their stay.

But they are still getting paid to do it.

I guess it depends if it was a gift or if you specified one as your "fee for service." I guess it's like the "working girls" who require "donations" for companionship to try and skirt the law.

lol. “You gonna buy my a dole whip baby?”

 

[nickys]

I’m referring to when Americans say that a person was trespassed (i.e., thrown out for trespassing), or that Disney trespassed a person (i.e., threw someone out for trespassing). I’ve never heard the word used in that sense outside the US. I always understood trespassing to be the offence, not the punishment.

Like I said, I’ve heard it used for both.

 

[nickys]

But they are still getting paid to do it.

Only by Disney by way of commission.

And even if they charge a fee, it only applies during the booking process. Not during the actual resort stay.

Theses “guides” are doing business on Disney property. And taking money for doing so.

 

[flynnibus]

I’m referring to when Americans say that a person was trespassed (i.e., thrown out for trespassing), or that Disney trespassed a person (i.e., threw someone out for trespassing). I’ve never heard the word used in that sense outside the US. I always understood trespassing to be the offence, not the punishment.

Like all things english... its very broken and there are multiple uses.

Trespassed can simply be the past tense of the verb of 'trespass' which is to commit the offense of 'trespassing'

But it is also used as a verb to refer to the act of being served or removed for 'trespassing'

 

[lazyboy97o]

But they are still getting paid to do it.

Would you be shocked that someone with a hot dog cart was booted from property even though Disney allows a bunch of other businesses to sell food on property?

 

[Splash4eva]

And what if you or I want to go to Disney with different family members or groups of friends?

Let’s say Amy goes once a year with her immediate family in late May. Then they go in August with various aunties, cousins and her parents. And she has a girls getaway in February with a group of friends - of whom 2 or 3 are regulars and others join some years.

Does she have to wade through 30 people to select her group every time she books a G+ ride?

Im pretty sure Disney can see that Amy is NOT abusing the system and tell Amy she is more than welcome to do such thing. Its really not difficult if the same person/people are in the parks constantly with different people at a consistent basis. Its not rocket science

 

[Casper Gutman]

Disney is completely within its legal rights to do this. It comes across as scummy because WDW has - largely intentionally - created such a complicated, counterintuitive, opaque system and provides such inadequate tools to navigate it that they've made these third parties attractive.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Would you be shocked that someone with a hot dog cart was booted from property even though Disney allows a bunch of other businesses to sell food on property?

Yes, If Disney allowed other hot dog vendors as long as they sold 10 or more hot dogs at a time. Lol.