Drdcm
Well-Known Member
That’s a good point
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Trespassing third parties
- Thread starter KeithVH
- Start date
Splash4eva
Well-Known Member
Can i ask this? Again not saying what they were doing was correct but with the spike in Plaids and from over hearing and just visually seeing they have hired more is it possible Disney initially turned a blind eye because as stated they were bringing in people spending a ton of money that they couldnt handle the demand and felt it wasnt worth it and now they do? Again its virtually impossible Disney was unaware this was going on. I know people have said this has been going on before but more publicized now. Why? Did they STOP all outside tour guides?
rct247
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that this particular person is just trying to make himself seem like the victim because he made a career out of exploiting certain park services. The fact that the article mentions he does his tours for Guests with disabilities explained it for me. Probably playing dumb with the how was I supposed to know they didn't actually have a disability.
Reality is that this occurs all the time in the parks with these 3rd party tour guides getting DAS for themselves (sometimes legitimately and sometimes not) and allowing others to benefit off of it. They also abuse rider switch services and annual pass discounts.
Most of the time, these tour guides also couple this with also knowing the ins and outs of the parks to know when to visit what attractions and how to maximize time.
The rare ones are the ones that also go to lengths to try to take advantage of complimentary tickets, Lightning Lanes given by Guest Relations, and ticketing system loop holes.
Im sure Disney also hates when people buy annual passes and use the perks for profit. These are the folks that visit the parks nearly every day doing this. You can see how Disney would be like yes, the pass allows that but we didn't expect someone to actually go everyday.
When they go after someone this the guy in this article, they likely had lots of evidence and don't necessarily have to show or explain unless it get brought to court. They don't just make a snap decision because if they are wrong, their reputation is at risk. The abuse often goes on for years before it is addressed.
Back before DAS when it was GAC, friends told me it was like 1 out of 10 people coming through the Fastpass line were using GAC. When DAS was introduced things reset for a little while, but not that it has been a decade, the abuse for DAS is likely about the same.
Reality is that this occurs all the time in the parks with these 3rd party tour guides getting DAS for themselves (sometimes legitimately and sometimes not) and allowing others to benefit off of it. They also abuse rider switch services and annual pass discounts.
Most of the time, these tour guides also couple this with also knowing the ins and outs of the parks to know when to visit what attractions and how to maximize time.
The rare ones are the ones that also go to lengths to try to take advantage of complimentary tickets, Lightning Lanes given by Guest Relations, and ticketing system loop holes.
Im sure Disney also hates when people buy annual passes and use the perks for profit. These are the folks that visit the parks nearly every day doing this. You can see how Disney would be like yes, the pass allows that but we didn't expect someone to actually go everyday.
When they go after someone this the guy in this article, they likely had lots of evidence and don't necessarily have to show or explain unless it get brought to court. They don't just make a snap decision because if they are wrong, their reputation is at risk. The abuse often goes on for years before it is addressed.
Back before DAS when it was GAC, friends told me it was like 1 out of 10 people coming through the Fastpass line were using GAC. When DAS was introduced things reset for a little while, but not that it has been a decade, the abuse for DAS is likely about the same.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
One point that most are missing. Your admission ticket does not authorize you to use it to charge people to guide them around the parks, even if you aren't teaching them to abuse DAS. They don't sell a "tour guide" pass and, if they did offer one, it would be much more expensive.
Ski resorts typically forbid 3rd party ski instructors. This is a similar policy. People can argue back and forth about whether they should have the policy or should enforce it but it's not up for debate. It's whatever park management decides they want to do.
If they wanted to they could ban Universal Orlando t-shirts from being worn in the parks and eject anybody who has one on. It's their park and they make the rules and decisions about the enforcement of the rules. As long as nothing they do violates State or Federal law or the Constitution of the United States or Florida then it is up to people to follow their policies.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
That's certainly possible, sure. But it seems unlikely that Disney turned a blind eye to a revenue stream being poached for a decade or more and then suddenly realized that it's an opportunity for them to increase revenues. We're talking Chapek-era management not seizing an opportunity to increase a revenue stream. As noted by others, this isn't the first time Disney has done this to unauthorized tour guides. It's just that this time some of the guides took their case to the media to try to shame Disney into letting them operate on-site again.
Will this 100% stop ALL unauthorized tours? Unlikely. There's a market for VIP Tours and so these unauthorized tours will keep popping up. It's a never-ending game of Whack-a-Mole.
DryerLintFan
Premium Member
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
I agree. That's what I meant by "violating the terms of their admission." Even without the abuse of DAS, they were violating the rules. These guides get no sympathy from me. They were lucky to get away with it as long as they did and are acting with a sense of entitlement now that they've been caught.
Less
G&CsMom
Member
Do we really know if Disney didn't give them a warning? (not that they are required to) There is a well-known vlogger couple of which one of them started working as one of these tour guides. About 4 or 5 weeks ago-ish, they suddenly stopped their regular posts and videos and have been very cryptic about the situation. It may have nothing to do with this banning but the timing is very suspect. Could it be they were warned and many just disregarded? It's much more acceptable these days to claim victimhood than to actually take responsibility for one's actions having a direct role in the less than desirable outcome.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Even though you’re making fun of me, I ALWAYS applaud a MuppetVision quote!!!!
I think I need to be clear that I get both sides, I’m just asking questions from the other side cause I do see both sides of this coin.
I also used to work at a tourist railroad and tour guides like this are pretty common in tourist areas. We had people like this who would get their clients reserved seats, special tours, etc. and usually that was through tips of employees but management didn’t care because they were bringing us customers regularly.
I’ve also been clear that if there was documented abuse of the DAS - then the guides should absolutely be trespassed - I’m not arguing that at all.
Drdcm
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we know. You’re right that they may have warned them already
DryerLintFan
Premium Member
I think the problem here is that there is no logical way these tour guides can deliver what they promise without breaking the rules. You’re focused on the idea that tour guides improve something for the company, which might be true if the service was simply helping to plan a park strategy or even walking around with them to show them where the bathrooms were and what ice Cream place was best. But these clients are paying up to $300 an hour to not wait in lines and not have to deal with Disney obstacles.
So far the only logical ways to do that are DAS abuse And/or kickbacks to CMs and/or abuse of guest relations passes. All of which are blatant violations of the park rules and also impacting overall guest satisfaction.
So, if not breaking the rules, how are these guys providing front of the line access for their clients?
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I think it depends on the circumstances. I’m open to the idea that they were knowingly doing something wrong. But I’m also open to the idea that they were over-enthusiastic fans who got blindsided.
On the “they were enthusiastic fans” side of the argument - saying they violated the terms of park admission isn’t particularly dam*ning to me because, quite frankly, I have no idea what the terms of park admission are and I doubt many people do. There was a South Park episode once that parodied the concept of “terms and conditions” in the modern world. I won’t summarize because it was characteristically gross, but the general concept is that - come on… who actually reads all the pages of terms and conditions for all the various things we agree to in daily life? Not to mention, many of them are subject to interpretation anyways. You could say “Oh, it’s common sense, they should have known,” but I don’t know about that either. There are lots of people who provide services in the Disney bubble. Nannies, personal assistants, personal shoppers, caterers who make and deliver Disney themed treats to hotels, in-room party creators, people who do Bippity Boppity Boutique style makeovers in hotel rooms, and so on. I can see getting the idea that Disney loves fans who go out and promote Disney, that a certain degree of entrepreneurial fan culture is even encouraged.
Also on the “enthusiastic fan” side - a poster here said that at least one guide was straight up invited to Disney events and comped for Disney vacations. I mean if that’s not implicit approval and even encouragement, I don’t know what is.
On the “they knew they were doing something wrong” side - first and foremost I have no idea if they did indeed get advanced warning. Second, the apparent line-cutting stuff does seem inherently suspect. It’s hard to imagine an above board way of doing that.
So I don’t know. But for those asking how these guides could be perceived as anything but seasoned criminals - that’s my response. It’s natural to put yourself in others shoes when reading these types of stories. If I went to Orlando and started an in-room makeover service or something, then Disney sent the police after me and banned me for life? I would be heartbroken and crushed. A bunch of people waving fine print at me like lawyers and yelling “See! Terms and conditions! Terms and conditions! No sympathy!!!” would not somehow make me any less crushed. So if (and only if) these were fans who were excited and unknowingly did something wrong, I feel for them. But none of us has the whole story, so I’m reserving judgement for now.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The types of unauthorized tours that are offered are not just ones that would involve utilizing DAS. People have offered things like history tours where they walk you around and tell you stories about the park and company.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
True. It's not exactly in their best interests to admit that they were warned. BUT even without a formal warning, they received a warning in advance in the terms and conditions of their park admission. If someone knows they are doing something wrong then no warning is required for them to know they shouldn't be doing it. What they really are asking for is advance notice to alter their methods of operating so they could continue operating without detection again in the future.
MaximumEd
Well-Known Member
It could be that Disney knew but didn’t care if the FP line was clogged back when FP was free. Now that they are charging for LL and Genie +,it matters more if unofficial tour guides and system abusers clog the lines to the point regular customers go to guest relations and demand refunds. It might be less to do with undercutting the plaids and more to do with the revenue stream from G+ and LL.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Genie and Lightning lane?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They were banning people for this type of behavior during the FastPass days.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
Being an "over-enthusiastic fan" doesn't justify operating a business on private property without permission. Nobody should ever assume that it's okay to do that regardless of their fandom level. It truly is common sense.
That guide also operates as a travel agent (though likely without any authorization from Disney anymore after this). It is not uncommon for Disney to do things like that for the travel agencies they work with. It does not mean that Disney knew he was acting as a tour guide to undercut their VIP Tour business.
The fact that there is no way to legitimately offer line skipping is all the evidence needed to know that these guides weren't operating honestly. They either overcharged customers for acting like a walking talking tip book or they broke the rules to get them the line skipping advantages that VIP Tours get. Either way, they redirected business away from Disney and to themselves.
Nobody is calling them criminals. They're simply pointing out that they broke Disney's rules and are now dealing with the consequences.