Trespassing third parties

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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
lewisc said:
The private guides would have been given prior notice. Corporate permission wouldn't have been in perpetuity. No doubt it would have been subject to termination. 30 days notice?

They interpreted their actions as permitted since they didn't collect money on Disney property. Their private tours were known to Disney.

Disney decided to put a stop. That doesn’t mean the guides are criminals who got caught.

Some posters are all but saying the guides are "bad" people taking advantage of Disney's IP. Others are saying Disney is "bad" for stopping a legit service.

Both are positions are wrong. Things change. I think Disney was "mean spirited" in serving the guides as they were entering with guests.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks DAS is the only reason.

The TA are assisting guests with hotel, restaurant and ticket arrangements. Maybe their assistance should include booking plaid tours
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See the posts from splash4eva. At least 1 of these guides was taking big spenders who weren't aware of the VIP Tour and selling them their own version of a tour in its place. How do you promise people that they won't wait in line like everyone else if you don't have a legitimate way to offer the same line-skipping option that Disney's tours get? You can't do it without abusing DAS. And it's impossible to believe that every tour group had at least 1 person who needs DAS. So I see nothing mean about Disney stopping someone from deceiving their customers while stealing business from Disney. It's a slimy practice and no warning is necessary, especially if there are concerns that these tours are impacting other guests. Add in the possibility that a dissatisfied tour customer might assume that Disney authorized the business to operate in the parks and you have a headache for Disney that they don't need.
 
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Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
So how did this service allow them to "avoid everything that is bad about Disney" without violating the rules? Line skipping is the primary benefit of the VIP Tours. Unauthorized tour guides can't offer that without violating DAS rules. If this was during the FP+ days then the best they could do within the rules (setting aside the entire nature of the tour being a violation itself) would be to assist with FP+ selections. That's not worth hundreds of dollars per hour even if they were able to get them "bonus" selections after they used their initial 3. That's literally just a matter of telling them "When you use these 3, look to see if there are more available." It's a basic tip that anyone with Google access and 5 minutes could find.
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Again as ive stated prior times. I do NOT know how it was done all i know is that the service they all used provided access where noone had to wait on any lines. You can choose to believe me or not. Personally i dont care. Whether what was being done was breaking any policy again i have no clue nor do i care either
 
MaximumEd

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
If a non-Disney tour guide can offer a service where no client has to wait on any lines, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out how. They were abusing the system. Whether that system was DAS or kickbacks to friendly CM’s to hand out recovery passes, saying “I just don’t know how they did it” isn’t exactly accurate.
 
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Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
MaximumEd said:
If a non-Disney tour guide can offer a service where no client has to wait on any lines, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out how. They were abusing the system. Whether that system was DAS or kickbacks to friendly CM’s to hand out recovery passes, saying “I just don’t know how they did it” isn’t exactly accurate.
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Again. I can use guesses how it was done & honestly from conversations my guess is they were definitely using both like you said DAS & kickbacks to CM. Heck the old parent swap or return times use to be good for the entire month. I can vividly remember bringing home unused FoP return cards & giving them to a good friend heading down there. Ive even given them out to people in line with 2 kids so they not have to wait as a good deed. Hate me for it but it was greatly appreciated by the families i gave them too.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
a good travel agent would tell their clients about the VIP Tours rather than taking advantage of their clients' lack of WDW knowledge to sell their own unauthorized service in its place. That's a disservice to their clients and is essentially poaching business from Disney.
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Or would a good travel agent send the client direct to Disney vacations? Isn’t the travel agent poaching business from Disney as well?
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Or would a good travel agent send the client direct to Disney vacations? Isn’t the travel agent poaching business from Disney as well?
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Yet another factually incorrect claim that either misses or ignores prior arrangements. Travel agents work with Disney. They’re called Disney Authorized Travel Agents because they have prior authorization. They make money because Disney pays them a commission.
 
Drdcm

Drdcm

Well-Known Member
lewisc said:
The private guides would have been given prior notice. Corporate permission wouldn't have been in perpetuity. No doubt it would have been subject to termination. 30 days notice?

They interpreted their actions as permitted since they didn't collect money on Disney property. Their private tours were known to Disney.

Disney decided to put a stop. That doesn’t mean the guides are criminals who got caught.

Some posters are all but saying the guides are "bad" people taking advantage of Disney's IP. Others are saying Disney is "bad" for stopping a legit service.

Both are positions are wrong. Things change. I think Disney was "mean spirited" in serving the guides as they were entering with guests.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks DAS is the only reason.

The TA are assisting guests with hotel, restaurant and ticket arrangements. Maybe their assistance should include booking plaid tours
Click to expand...
I think they should have provided notice to these folks… assuming they weren’t already and knew of their operations.
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
Again as ive stated prior times. I do NOT know how it was done all i know is that the service they all used provided access where noone had to wait on any lines. You can choose to believe me or not. Personally i dont care. Whether what was being done was breaking any policy again i have no clue nor do i care either
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I never said I don't believe you. I simply said that if they were providing "no waiting in li es" service then they were breaking multiple rules. It wasn't an attack on you or the people who paid them, it was simply citing the story you shared ad another example of what was wrong with these businesses doing what they did.
 
MaximumEd

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
Splash4eva said:
Again. I can use guesses how it was done & honestly from conversations my guess is they were definitely using both like you said DAS & kickbacks to CM. Heck the old parent swap or return times use to be good for the entire month. I can vividly remember bringing home unused FoP return cards & giving them to a good friend heading down there. Ive even given them out to people in line with 2 kids so they not have to wait as a good deed. Hate me for it but it was greatly appreciated by the families i gave them too.
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That’s all I’m saying. Not trying to specifically pick on you, but a couple of people in this thread have thrown out several scenarios where these non-Disney guides were just good folks who gave advice. They were gaming the system until they impacted guest satisfaction to the point Disney booted them. They knew the game they were playing.
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Or would a good travel agent send the client direct to Disney vacations? Isn’t the travel agent poaching business from Disney as well?
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No. Travel agents existed long before Disney's parks opened. Agents don't charge a fee to their clients for booking rooms, tickets, etc., they get a commission from Disney for helping sell Disney's products/services. Why do you keep arguing using points that are obviously false?
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Drdcm said:
I think they should have provided notice to these folks… assuming they weren’t already and knew of their operations.
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These companies were poaching business and knowingly violating the terms of their park admission. Why do you think they deserve a warning before being banned? Plenty of people get banned from the parks for their behavior inside the parks and aren't making money in the process, so why do the people taking business away from Disney deserve a warning that others don't get?
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Nothing I said was false. Disney does have its own travel planning. I never said it wasn’t a different arrangement.

Tour guides also existed before Disney theme parks.
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The falsehood is that travel agents "poach" business from Disney. They work WITH Disney to send them business and receive $0 from the customer booking a vacation. They don't steer customers away from Disney hotels to their own vacation rentals and promise that their rentals come with access to things like Extra Magic Hours that are reserved for Disney hotel guests.

These tour guides steer customers away from Disney's VIP Tours. By their own admission, they are "bringing high-end clients" who spend money, which is exactly the type of clientele served by Disney's VIP Tours. It's a blatant redirecting of money from Disney to themselves.
 
Drdcm

Drdcm

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
These companies were poaching business and knowingly violating the terms of their park admission. Why do you think they deserve a warning before being banned? Plenty of people get banned from the parks for their behavior inside the parks and aren't making money in the process, so why do the people taking business away from Disney deserve a warning that others don't get?
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Because that’s what I think. You can disagree. I’m not arguing with anyone here.

My thoughts are that Disney allowed these guides to operate for years, and then suddenly they decided not to without warning. This is well within Disneys rights to do. Is having police escort the guides out and serving them with trespass notices the best option? Sounds like you think so, and that’s fine.

I’m not defending the guides. I think they suck and take away the experience from others.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Chip Chipperson said:
These companies were poaching business and knowingly violating the terms of their park admission. Why do you think they deserve a warning before being banned? Plenty of people get banned from the parks for their behavior inside the parks and aren't making money in the process, so why do the people taking business away from Disney deserve a warning that others don't get?
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It would also let people adapt. Now you’d know to walk in by yourself, meet inside the park and keep a lower profile.
 

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