Trespassing third parties

[flynnibus]

Yeah it wasn’t about improving his chances. He had already paid for the tickets and gotten them through the lottery. When it came time for seat selection, he had to “donate” $400 for accessible seats.

If I were to go through this process, I would only have to pay for the tickets once I’d been selected from the lottery.

Still doesn't compute. Sounds like more to the story than you have...

 

[Drdcm]

Still doesn't compute. Sounds like more to the story than you have...

Ok… thanks. I don’t really care if you believe me lol

 

[flynnibus]

True, but we are really just talking about Disney world here. I'm not really sure what you would need to prove in a grocery store or gas station to get help. You do have to prove that you need a handicap parking permit. They do nothing to check, so like most things, the bad apples spoil it for the bunch.

Assistance to reach things...
Handicap accessible check out lanes...
Handicap accessible controls...
handicap ramps or seats....

It goes on and on. My point being was the reason these systems are setup to open is so that those the law is setup to help would get help without extra burden. The point was to mainstream their experiences - not just make sure they COULD get assistance if needed.. it was setup to make their participation the NORM, not the exception.

Alas it is this same default posture that makes it ease for the scum of this planet to abuse it for their selfish desires.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Fun fact. My friend is paralyzed from the waist down and has seasons tickets for a state college football team. He pays the season ticket price for the category of seat he wants and then is forced to make an extra $400 donation to then be put into a lottery for an accessible seat within that same ticket category.

Honestly sounds like something the Department of Justice should review. Requiring additional purchases is something that has been stopped in other cases.

 

[Splash4eva]

The fact that you put "allowed" in quotes shows that you know they didn't allow it. They found out about certain businesses and stopped them as they learned about them.

And that leads to the different access levels point you think you made. Disney doesn't grant them more access because Disney never authorized their activity in the first place. If Disney wants different tiers of park tours then they'll offer it themselves or seek a vendor to co tract the service. What they don't do, never have done, and never will do is let random people operate as tour guides for a fee.

The fact that you continue to argue in bad faith using false equivalancies and ignoring the basic facts of the situation is why people question you. I don't think you're stupid, so that really only leaves an undisclosed interest in such a business or simple trolling as possible reasons for such blatant bad faith arguments that keep looking for "gotcha!" loopholes for why these guides aren't the ones who are wrong.

I dont know why they are cracking down now but i can assure you 3rd party tour guides have been around for awhile & Disney had to be well aware of it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

OK, how about this example?

When I visited Washington DC I took a tour of the Capitol. for which I paid a fee. Do you think security would have been OK had I started taking a group around myself and charging half the price of the official tour?

Or if I’d stood in the foyer of the Air and Space Museum and offered tours for $20 per person?

If you answered No, then why do you think it’s OK for someone to offer tours of a Disney park for a fee?

There are many private guides available in Washington DC that allow private tours of the Smithsonian museums. I can’t find anything online that prohibits this.

I think you HAVE to have a guide from the capitol correct? Do they allow self tours?

 

[flynnibus]

Obviously the guides in the article don’t feel like they were doing anything wrong

Yes, if you close your eyes and brain you can can feel anything you like. But just because you believe something doesn't make it correct.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Another potential "solution" to the DAS abuse. USO is currently testing face scanners at the park entrances. In theory, this system is supposedly gearing up for people at EU to simply walk into the park without stopping to show a ticket. If the system flags someone as not having a ticket, security is alerted to go talk to the person.

Would it be reasonable to put something like this at the entrance of every ride? If the system detects that someone holding a DAS pass gets into a standby line greater than X minutes. Either security is alerted, or their DAS pass is canceled.

This wouldn't affect DAS users that legitimately cannot wait in a certain length of line. However, this would stop people from using DAS as a free skip the line while they go ride other big rides.

The problem with such a system is that it’s going to be very easy to find a sympathetic person impacted by such a change. “Security confronts Make-A-Wish family trying to meet Mickey Mouse” isn’t a headline Disney wants to deal with.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I dont know why they are cracking down now but i can assure you 3rd party tour guides have been around for awhile & Disney had to be well aware of it.

This isn’t the first crack down.

 

[Indy_UK]

Another potential "solution" to the DAS abuse. USO is currently testing face scanners at the park entrances. In theory, this system is supposedly gearing up for people at EU to simply walk into the park without stopping to show a ticket. If the system flags someone as not having a ticket, security is alerted to go talk to the person.

Would it be reasonable to put something like this at the entrance of every ride? If the system detects that someone holding a DAS pass gets into a standby line greater than X minutes. Either security is alerted, or their DAS pass is canceled.

This wouldn't affect DAS users that legitimately cannot wait in a certain length of line. However, this would stop people from using DAS as a free skip the line while they go ride other big rides.

I was going to suggest this too earlier but decided not too because of the simple reason as to why it won’t happen.

Costs a lot of money that Disney doesn’t want to spend

 

[Drdcm]

Still doesn't compute. Sounds like more to the story than you have...

Honestly sounds like something the Department of Justice should review. Requiring additional purchases is something that has been stopped in other cases.

I think they get away with it by not guaranteeing accessible seats when you enter the lottery. You are assigned a seat then are offered the opportunity to provide and additional “contribution” that allows you to change seats to a desired section. The accessible section is in the $400 price area.

Also. I this really has no application to DAS, I just brought it up because it made me think of the one situation in which I have heard of a business charging more for something like this and somehow getting away with it.

 

[nickys]

Another potential "solution" to the DAS abuse. USO is currently testing face scanners at the park entrances. In theory, this system is supposedly gearing up for people at EU to simply walk into the park without stopping to show a ticket. If the system flags someone as not having a ticket, security is alerted to go talk to the person.

Facial recognition technology is notoriously bad at being able to cope with some ethnic groups. Not sure how that’s going to look if Universal proceed with that plan, unless there have been significant improvements in the technology.

 

[lewisc]

All this despite Disney having Strollers and ECVs in its parks that are effectively competition.

Scooterbug already had the rights for in park, including DS, rentals. There is no competition.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I’m not trolling. I’m legitimately pointing out my view which is different. Obviously the guides in the article don’t feel like they were doing anything wrong. If they weren’t abusing DAS then I don’t think they were either.

I have 0 interest in this, I’ve never been a guide, or hired a guide.

Then your differing view is based on false information because all of your counterpoints are very obviously flawed and do not equate what has been going on.

The guides in the article know full well that they are wrong. They never sought nor received permission to operate their businesses on WDW property. That is a blatant violation of Disney's rules, as their spokesperson pointed out in the article.

One guide tried to justify his actions by claiming that he is somehow doing Disney a service by operating on their property because he brings "high-end clients" to the property. That argument has a glaringly obvious flaw - these "high-end clients" are the same ones that are most likely to buy a VIP Tour from Disney, so they are not only undercutting Disney's prices ON DISNEY PROPERTY, but they are also potentially misleading their clients into thinking that they are giving them a similar experience at a lower price. But without the line-skipping access of a VIP Tour, how could they provide a similar service unless they are abusing the DAS system. So even if you take them at their word that they aren't abusing the DAS system, then they are still undercutting Disney's prices while their customers get a lesser experience. If they are truly just "guiding guests around the park" then there is no reason to charge an hourly fee. Simply do what other companies do and create touring plans and provide printed or digital guidebooks. No tour guide needed.

Also, if Disney knowingly allowed unauthorized commercial activity on property then what is to stop other forms of unauthorized commercial activity? Don't want to pay rent for. Disney Springs retail location? Just open up a pop-up shop on Main Street. It's okay as long as your snacks, drinks, t-shirts, etc. are cheaper than Disney's, right?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I dont know why they are cracking down now but i can assure you 3rd party tour guides have been around for awhile & Disney had to be well aware of it.

1. Another poster already cited a specific example of Disney cracking down on an unauthorized tour guide in the past, so this isn't the first time they've done so. Also, just because these few tour guides decided to make a stink about it to the media for sympathy doesn't mean other similar businesses haven't had the same thing happen without crying to the press. We only know about these cases because they found a reporter willing to write about it. It's not like Disney is going to issue press releases every time they ban someone from the parks.

2. There is nothing in this story that leads me to assume that Disney knew about specific people/companies and let it slide for years. You are assuming something that isn't supported by evidence. It's possible that they didn't know about these specific companies or knew the business names but not the names of the tour guides themselves.

 

[erasure fan1]

Assistance to reach things...
Handicap accessible check out lanes...
Handicap accessible controls...
handicap ramps or seats....

I get it, and most of that is government mandated so they could function as anyone else would. There's also no real reason to abuse those systems, they give you no advantage. The DAS can be used as a big advantage.

The point was to mainstream their experiences - not just make sure they COULD get assistance if needed.. it was setup to make their participation the NORM, not the exception

And it really would still be mainstreamed for the parks. If Disney did it, I'm struggling to think of what other life situations could be impacted. I get things like service animals. You'd be pulling out your card constantly if that were a thing.

Alas it is this same default posture that makes it ease for the scum of this planet to abuse it for their selfish desires.

Hence the reason to do it and why I said most people who need it, would prefer to prove it to eliminate some of that scum. At least the people in my life who would use it, and as it seems, people on here as well.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

OK, how about this example?

When I visited Washington DC I took a tour of the Capitol. for which I paid a fee. Do you think security would have been OK had I started taking a group around myself and charging half the price of the official tour?

Or if I’d stood in the foyer of the Air and Space Museum and offered tours for $20 per person?

If you answered No, then why do you think it’s OK for someone to offer tours of a Disney park for a fee?

Because it's his "opinion"

 

[The Mom]

Please stop turning this into a DAS argument. Thank you.

 

[Splash4eva]

1. Another poster already cited a specific example of Disney cracking down on an unauthorized tour guide in the past, so this isn't the first time they've done so. Also, just because these few tour guides decided to make a stink about it to the media for sympathy doesn't mean other similar businesses haven't had the same thing happen without crying to the press. We only know about these cases because they found a reporter willing to write about it. It's not like Disney is going to issue press releases every time they ban someone from the parks.

2. There is nothing in this story that leads me to assume that Disney knew about specific people/companies and let it slide for years. You are assuming something that isn't supported by evidence. It's possible that they didn't know about these specific companies or knew the business names but not the names of the tour guides themselves.

Again. Ive stated i know people who have used these 3rd party companies and as we see these parties have been around conducting business. Are you implying Disney was completely oblivious to this or turned a blind eye?

 

[Section106]

If you really can't handle the lines, WDW isn't the place for you.

My wife suffers from MS, has incontinence, is wheelchair bound, and can't stay in a long line. She is disabled due to her service to this country. In fact she is 100% Total and Permanent with SMC R1 because of the injuries sustained in the Army. For her it is a question of her dignity. She loves Disney and our yearly trips. She looks forward to these indispensable trips. It gives her something to look forward to and brings such hope and joy. Most of her life is bedridden pain. Is Disney really not for her?