Trespassing third parties

[lazyboy97o]

I think we all agree.

And, it’s telling this crackdown didn’t start to happen until 1) they started monetizing their “skip the line” methods, and 2) those tours undercut their own VIP tour offerings in a big way.

This is not the first crackdown. Jim Hill got the boot for giving tours at Disneyland back in 2005.

Which is exactly what the guides in the article are requesting from Disney. A way to work with them so they can still provide this service.

The Uber example shows that Disney is fine with allowing commercial activity on their property.

Disney allows all sorts of businesses on their property. They’re all authorized beforehand. If I ask you if I can take your car for the day I’m borrowing it, if I don’t ask you then I’ve stolen it.

 

[phillip9698]

It’s honestly amazing how worked up you get when someone mentions a different point of view. You’re on a Disney fan site acting like you’re a college law professor or something that is “schooling” me. I’m just pointing out some ideas here.

It’s because you are purposely throwing out “well what about” or “it’s tricky” and all types of other things to skirt around the VERY BASIC point that Disney is allowed to authorize business from 3rd parties as they see fit on their private property. They do not want unauthorized tour companies operating on their property and are taking steps to eliminate them. It’s within their right to do so and the concept is very straightforward.

 

[flynnibus]

It’s honestly amazing how worked up you get when someone mentions a different point of view.

You don't have a different point of view... you keep repeating the same false information over and over while people have tried to educate you multiple times.

The "well its my opinion..." kind of hail mary doesn't work here. You've just wrong period.

 

[Chi84]

Requiring people purchase something extra is not a reasonable accommodation. Flat out. If you place all of your wheelchair spaces in the best place in a theater you’re not allowed to only charge those premium rates for the wheelchair spaces. Any accommodation that involves buying Genie+ is illegal.

That's because the example you're giving would not fundamentally alter the theater's business model. If DAS is being used to the point where it is not workable under Disney's business model, DAS can be significantly altered, just the way the earlier system was limited. This is completely aside from the question of abuse.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You've just wrong period.

I disagree

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, that's exactly what should happen. It won't eliminate the problem of abuse, but it would cut down on it a fair amount I believe.

It's nothing but a shift of the burden. It's like outsourcing the evaluation to another company to act as a shield. People will still make up the same excuses regardless.

True, but I don't know of any people who need it who would have a problem proving it. My wife needed it this summer and might need it forever. She is all for the have to prove it approach. I find that most people who need these type of accommodations, are not happy with others abusing it. So therefore have no problems with providing proof they do in fact need it.

For something non-frequent like a Theme Park that logic makes sense.

But imagine if everytime you needed help in the grocery store.. or at the gas station.. or to get on the bus you had to prove to someone why you need help.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yes.

It’s like Disney suddenly trespassing an off-property guest for using Disney resort transportation. Technically resort transportation is only for “resort guests” - but to be suddenly met with law enforcement because you were “breaking the rules” seems a little extreme.

I get the hunch that some people are convinced all of these tour guides are scam artists, and I don’t think that’s the case. The “commercial activity” is a stretch. All Uber drivers are conducting commercial activity on Disney property.

Again, this isn't even close to the same thing. Someone not staying on property can have valid reasons for using resort transportation (dining reservations or wanting a QS meal from a specific resort, shopping at a resort gift shop). There is no legitimate reason for someone to conduct commercial activity on WDW property without Disney's consent.

As for Uber, Lyft, etc. Disney allows them. They even have designated parking spots for drivers to wait. Disney even partners with Lyft for guests to request a Minnie Van, so it wouldn't be in Disney's interests to play hardball with them. Uber and Lyft drivers also don't have the same access that Minnie Van drivers do (dropping off/picking up at TTC vs. the bus stops at MK for example) and there is no reasonable possibility for confusion that an Uber driver is a Disney employee or authorized representative. Also, there is a huge difference in price differences for rideshares vs. Minnie Vans as opposed to WDW VIP Tour and one of these unauthorized tour guides.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

As for Uber, Lyft, etc. Disney allows them.

Disney also “allowed” private tour guides.

Uber and Lyft drivers also don't have the same access that Minnie Van drivers do

Private tour guides don’t have close to the same access that Disney guides do.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I wonder if this crackdown is related to all of the side businesses that furloughed cast members started after Covid happened? I didn’t see it mentioned in the article but a lot of in-room makeover services, Disney themed baked goods delivery, in-room party services, etc. started at around that time. It might have expanded the field of non Disney services on Disney property quite a bit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's because the example you're giving would not fundamentally alter the theater's business model. If DAS is being used to the point where it is not workable under Disney's business model, DAS can be significantly altered, just the way the earlier system was limited. This is completely aside from the question of abuse.

Plenty of theaters charge different prices for different seats and those tiers are key to their business model. Trying to require premium purchases is something that has been tried and part of why the design standards require access in facilities like theaters to be dispersed.

The key to the prior changes was the line skipping that truly offered something beyond what was offered to the general public. It’s a lot different when you’re dealing with something that is offered as part of the base admission.

 

[Splash4eva]

Requiring people purchase something extra is not a reasonable accommodation. Flat out. If you place all of your wheelchair spaces in the best place in a theater you’re not allowed to only charge those premium rates for the wheelchair spaces. Any accommodation that involves buying Genie+ is illegal.

Listen im not here to argue with you or anyone. I love DAS i hope it never changes. Happy now?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Disney also “allowed” private tour guides.

Private tour guides don’t have close to the same access that Disney guides do.

The fact that you put "allowed" in quotes shows that you know they didn't allow it. They found out about certain businesses and stopped them as they learned about them.

And that leads to the different access levels point you think you made. Disney doesn't grant them more access because Disney never authorized their activity in the first place. If Disney wants different tiers of park tours then they'll offer it themselves or seek a vendor to contract the service. What they don't do, never have done, and never will do is let random people operate as tour guides for a fee.

The fact that you continue to argue in bad faith using false equivalancies and ignoring the basic facts of the situation is why people question you. I don't think you're stupid, so that really only leaves an undisclosed interest in such a business or simple trolling as possible reasons for such blatant bad faith arguments that keep looking for "gotcha!" loopholes for why these guides aren't the ones who are wrong.

 

[Purduevian]

Another potential "solution" to the DAS abuse. USO is currently testing face scanners at the park entrances. In theory, this system is supposedly gearing up for people at EU to simply walk into the park without stopping to show a ticket. If the system flags someone as not having a ticket, security is alerted to go talk to the person.

Would it be reasonable to put something like this at the entrance of every ride? If the system detects that someone holding a DAS pass gets into a standby line greater than X minutes. Either security is alerted, or their DAS pass is canceled.

This wouldn't affect DAS users that legitimately cannot wait in a certain length of line. However, this would stop people from using DAS as a free skip the line while they go ride other big rides.

 

[erasure fan1]

It's nothing but a shift of the burden. It's like outsourcing the evaluation to another company to act as a shield. People will still make up the same excuses regardless.

Yes, there will always be some who game the system. And I'm sure there are professionals who would authorize it even if not really needed. I don't really know how big of a problem it actually is or how much it impacts the parks. But as it stands, literally anyone can use it. You walk up to the guest relations, say I can't stand in line because of xyz, and they say ok, here you go. That's what you'd be curbing.

For something non-frequent like a Theme Park that logic makes sense.

But imagine if everytime you needed help in the grocery store.. or at the gas station.. or to get on the bus you had to prove to someone why you need help.

True, but we are really just talking about Disney world here. I'm not really sure what you would need to prove in a grocery store or gas station to get help. You do have to prove that you need a handicap parking permit. They do nothing to check, so like most things, the bad apples spoil it for the bunch.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I don't think you're stupid, so that really only leaves an undisclosed interest in such a business or simple trolling as possible reasons for such blatant bad faith arguments that keep looking for "gotcha!"

I’m not trolling. I’m legitimately pointing out my view which is different. Obviously the guides in the article don’t feel like they were doing anything wrong. If they weren’t abusing DAS then I don’t think they were either.

I have 0 interest in this, I’ve never been a guide, or hired a guide.

 

[Figgy1]

Disney stopped handing out skip the line passes years ago. DAS is an accommodation for the Stand-By line and everyone is allowed to use the Stand-By line as many times as they desire. Frankly this is like complaining that the accessible parking spaces are all wider than the Premium parking spaces.

Getting a return time goes back to the paper passes. I don't remember getting to skip lines except a few times but those rides were almost walkons

 

[nickys]

Yes.

It’s like Disney suddenly trespassing an off-property guest for using Disney resort transportation. Technically resort transportation is only for “resort guests” - but to be suddenly met with law enforcement because you were “breaking the rules” seems a little extreme.

Can you provide a link to any official statement that Disney transportation is only for “resort guests”? It is for all WDW guests.

The official pages for the Skyliner even says “Plus, the Disney Skyliner provides a relaxing trip to dining locations across Disney Resort hotels”.

At one time it was true that you had to have a ticket or pass to use the Monorail, but not any longer.

 

[Drdcm]

ehh.. forced? Or do you mean he pays more to the booster/alumni club to try to improve their chances to win in a ticket lottery?

Big difference...

Yeah it wasn’t about improving his chances. He had already paid for the tickets and gotten them through the lottery. When it came time for seat selection, he had to “donate” $400 for accessible seats.

If I were to go through this process, I would only have to pay for the tickets once I’d been selected from the lottery.

 

[Chi84]

Plenty of theaters charge different prices for different seats and those tiers are key to their business model. Trying to require premium purchases is something that has been tried and part of why the design standards require access in facilities like theaters to be dispersed.

The key to the prior changes was the line skipping that truly offered something beyond what was offered to the general public. It’s a lot different when you’re dealing with something that is offered as part of the base admission.

Disney went from GAC to DAS because their engineers concluded that the portion of the guest population holding GAC passes was consuming a substantial portion of ride capacity that lengthened the wait times for all other riders and severely impacted the users who did not have a disability accommodation. If the same is eventually shown for DAS, that will be limited too.

 

[nickys]

I’m not trolling. I’m legitimately pointing out my view which is different. Obviously the guides in the article don’t feel like they were doing anything wrong. If they weren’t abusing DAS then I don’t think they were either.

I have 0 interest in this, I’ve never been a guide, or hired a guide.

OK, how about this example?

When I visited Washington DC I took a tour of the Capitol. for which I paid a fee. Do you think security would have been OK had I started taking a group around myself and charging half the price of the official tour?

Or if I’d stood in the foyer of the Air and Space Museum and offered tours for $20 per person?

If you answered No, then why do you think it’s OK for someone to offer tours of a Disney park for a fee?