Trespassing third parties

[Splash4eva]

Genie+ is an additional, up charge offering with its own rules. DAS is an accommodation for general admission. Unless everyone is restricted to one ride per attraction then you’re not going to be allowed to limit those with disabilities to one ride. That is a blatant denial of access.

Again as a DAS user i would not feel im being denied reasonable access if i was only allowed to ride something once via DAS and then purchase Genie for another.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I go to the parks a lot and I’ve never been annoyed by a vlogger. They are usually super chill and know the cast members well. If you’re bothered by someone talking into a camera are you also bothered by friends family talking to each other? I don’t get the complaint.

I’m not particularly bothered by them either (I walked by a young guy filming himself at MK waxing poetic about “the feeling in the air” on this last trip and found it kinda charming) but I assume some people are, or else Disney would have almost no reason to reign them in.

 

[Purduevian]

But there is a rule of one LL per day for G+, and they already limit GotG and Tron to once per day with VQ. It’s reasonable because of that.

I would counter point with if someone's favorite ride is the magic carpets of Aladdin, but they have issues being in contained in crowd/line for more that ~15 minutes, they should be able to get DAS for Aladdin multiple times throughout the day. Just as a non-DAS user could keep hoping in the 20 minute line over and over again.

That’s still an incredibly inefficient use of space. A typically queue allocates 5 SF - 7 SF per person. At a minimum you’re talking about tripling the square footage per person. You’d have to find that space somewhere, which likely means eating into the park which has a worse impact (because of that higher square footage allotment) than just putting that person into the park.

The blessing of size and all that. If they put a snack stand in it, they would probably make their money back very quickly... Lets take Haunted mansion as an example. Haunted mansion can take ~2000 people per hour. Also lets say half is LL/DAS. So to hold an hours worth of people, we need to comfortably take ~1000 people.
Giving them 15 square feet per person would take this space:

For fun, I also asked AI to show what this waiting area could look like:

 

[Indy_UK]

You're kidding?
The current wait for SDD is 120 minutes. Enough time for a big ticket ride.

Disney could have writing place for DAS giests

But then aren't you running into the same issue then as to whether someone actually needs DAS?

My family may book Slinky at 120 minutes but then my son who has ADHD, Autism, ODD and cannot wait in lines, can't then go and join Midway Mania or Smugglers Run at 45 minutes each. He won't last 5 minutes before the struggles start.

 

[Ayla]

No, they did not. They ruled that making people wait like everyone else was still reasonable.


That’s not what I’m talking about. The other proposal raised is limiting DAS accommodations to once per attraction per day. So someone who used DAS to ride Pirates of the Caribbean would not be allowed to use DAS for a second ride on Pirates of the Caribbean.

People who get a free pass to skip the line should not have more advantages than someone that paid for the privilege.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You're kidding?
The current wait for SDD is 120 minutes. Enough time for a big ticket ride.

Disney could have waiting place for DAS giests

You can’t have too many wheelchair spaces together in a theater. A disabled waiting room is not a simple solution.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Again as a DAS user i would not feel im being denied reasonable access if i was only allowed to ride something once via DAS and then purchase Genie for another.

That’s great for you. What works for you doesn’t work for everyone else.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People who get a free pass to skip the line should not have more advantages than someone that paid for the privilege.

Disney stopped handing out skip the line passes years ago. DAS is an accommodation for the Stand-By line and everyone is allowed to use the Stand-By line as many times as they desire. Frankly this is like complaining that the accessible parking spaces are all wider than the Premium parking spaces.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

But then aren't you running into the same issue then as to whether someone actually needs DAS?

My family may book Slinky at 120 minutes but then my son who has ADHD, Autism, ODD and cannot wait in lines, can't then go and join Midway Mania or Smugglers Run at 45 minutes each. He won't last 5 minutes before the struggles start.

So what do you do while waiting the 120 minutes for your DAS time? Just curious.

 

[WorldExplorer]

You're kidding?
The current wait for SDD is 120 minutes. Enough time for a big ticket ride.

Disney could have waiting place for DAS giests

The amount of time you need to wait to use your DAS doesn't even really matter in the context of what else you can do in the meantime. Unlike the paid passes or virtual queues, you don't have a window, all it cares about is that you didn't get on immediately. Once your time arrives, any time after that is acceptable.

It makes perfect sense why it works like that, but people can absolutely do another big ticket thing while they wait. It's impossible to miss a DAS.

(And of course I am taking about a default view of how it works. I know there are specific reasons someone who needs it couldn't do something else.)

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I think(?) everyone here is in general agreement that Disney was entitled to trespass them.

Yes.

It’s like Disney suddenly trespassing an off-property guest for using Disney resort transportation. Technically resort transportation is only for “resort guests” - but to be suddenly met with law enforcement because you were “breaking the rules” seems a little extreme.

I get the hunch that some people are convinced all of these tour guides are scam artists, and I don’t think that’s the case. The “commercial activity” is a stretch. All Uber drivers are conducting commercial activity on Disney property.

 

[lazyboy97o]

On limits to DAS per attraction, I don't see any compelling reason to limit DAS to once daily on every attraction. Many are such low hanging fruit, like it makes no sense to limit Under the Sea. It matters most on low efficiency rides (Peter Pan) and highly popular rides, both which result in longer waits.

While "reasonable person" is not the standard, applications of the Disability Act to theme parks has inserted gray areas, like this one, that I think a reasonable person argument can at least be persuasive to a judge. Anyway, that argument is that there is a wait time threshold that a reasonable person is not going to wait in the same line for the same attraction more than once per day.

Disney could identify rides with an average wait time over whatever threshold (60 minutes? 90 minutes? and say anything under has unlimited DAS rides and anything over is limited to once per day, or maybe once per day until an hour before park close and then no restriction.

Restrictions that only apply to the disabled who have sough accommodation is pretty much a non-started. That’s a restriction of access that doesn’t apply to others. Disney would have to demonstrate a significant burden. Given that a DAS user is waiting the same length of time or longer given that Disney often inflates Stand-By wait times and that there can still be rushes on the Lightning Lane, that’s a very tall order. The impact on people re-riding just isn’t the same as it was when the accommodation was generally a line skip.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It’s not all that fair to a neurodivergent person who is very focused on a single attraction.

I'm sorry, but it is. Accommodations have to be "reasonable." It is not "reasonable" to give a neurodivergent person unlimited fastpasses to ROTR. At a certain point, even those with disabilities will need to learn / train themselves to function without their God-given right to ride the same E-ticket all day long, in an unlimited fashion, while everyone else waits on 3 hour lines for it.

 

[lewisc]

All Uber drivers are conducting commercial activity on Disney property.

And Disney could restrict them

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sorry, but it is. Accommodations have to be "reasonable." It is not "reasonable" to give a neurodivergent person unlimited fastpasses to ROTR. At a certain point, even those with disabilities will need to learn / train themselves to function without their God-given right to ride the same E-ticket all day long, in an unlimited fashion, while everyone else waits on 3 hour lines for it.

Everyone is allowed to use the Stand-By line to ride Rise of the Resistance as many times as they desire. A disabled person using DAS is not able to do any more rides than someone actually in the queue.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

No, the court didn't rule on the point raised here (limiting DAS from using another attraction during their hold period)

The plantiff wanted to be able to re-ride a ride without waits or limits because of her child's needs - the court ruled against her for that.

I encourage everyone to read the lawsuit and the briefs. The facts were just so egregious. The child's parent insisted that the child **had** to ride rides in a certain sequence, exactly the same way, with no wait for any ride. Disney tried to help them by, in addition to giving them the then version of DAS (return times), also giving like a half-dozen anytime fastpasses, but that was not enough for the parent of that child. Meanwhile, the testimony at trial that the child had a great day! Not doing the rides in exactly that sequence, with absolutely no wait did not result in any issues, and the child was happy. The parent still sued though. Disney won because the accommodation being requested wasn't "reasonable," it was ridiculous.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I get the hunch that some people are convinced all of these tour guides are scam artists, and I don’t think that’s the case. The “commercial activity” is a stretch. All Uber drivers are conducting commercial activity on Disney property.

You are again conflating authorized and unauthorized activity.

 

[Splash4eva]

That’s great for you. What works for you doesn’t work for everyone else.

Never said it does but i will say this. You will NEVER ever make everyone happy and NEVeR create something that works for everyone. So you need to use common sense and do whats best for business and the majority

 

[Indy_UK]

So what do you do while waiting the 120 minutes for your DAS time? Just curious.

To be honest, it depends on where we are.

If taking the 120 minutes wait for Slinky as an example again, I would probably try and take our son to Animation Courtyard for the Dance Party or characters there that tend to have minimal waits as something to actually do.
If it was later in the day I may select 120 minute wait around dinner at Rodeo BBQ to minimalize criss/crossing the park but more often than not, we will find a quiet area and he sits and watches YouTube on his phone. We certainly are not joining Midway mania with a 45 minute wait. Within 5 minutes of slow moving he will get agitated, start shouting and eventually start hitting us because he can't cope. I could try and force him, but I am also trying to think of those around us in the line as well as our son.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

To be honest, it depends on where we are.

If taking the 120 minutes wait for Slinky as an example again, I would probably try and take our son to Animation Courtyard for the Dance Party or characters there that tend to have minimal waits as something to actually do.
If it was later in the day I may select 120 minute wait around dinner at Rodeo BBQ to minimalize criss/crossing the park but more often than not, we will find a quiet area and he sits and watches YouTube on his phone. We certainly are not joining Midway mania with a 45 minute wait. Within 5 minutes of slow moving he will get agitated, start shouting and eventually start hitting us because he can't cope. I could try and force him, but I am also trying to think of those around us in the line as well as our son.

Thanks. Makes sense.