Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
It's because DHS DOESN'T need flat rides. It needs a plethora of C and D Tickets. That doesn't mean flat rides.
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Toy Story Playland
- Thread starter IowaHawks7
- Start date
SirLink
Well-Known Member
Amen brother
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I find it pretty hard to believe that the only reason people are hating on this idea is because it's taking too long to build. If it opened within 24hrs of BLT closing it would still get killed by the usual peanut gallery here.
Putting aside the group that just dislikes anything Disney does in Orlando and will always find a problem, if we are trying to generalize why people don't like the idea, IMHO it's because TSPL doesn't interest them personally. They either don't have kids or their kids are grown enough that height restrictions don't matter. I don't see the "full grown adult" fanboy demographic being excited about a land geared towards kids. I know if I didn't have kids I wouldn't likely spend much or any time there. It's not much different than Enchanted Tales with Belle. Gets a lot of hate from people not in the target demographic. It's human nature to want things that interest you personally. It's no different than someone who suffers from motion sickness not having any interest in an inverted roller coaster or someone with young kids not having a lot of interest in Universal since a lot of the best rides have height restrictions.
Before someone chimes in with the idea that they could have built a dark ride or 2 that would appeal to both kids and adults, I'll say I don't disagree with that. However, keep in mind that the cost of an entire TSPL is less than $100M while a single dark ride is probably double that so if we got 2 dark rides instead of TSPL it would cost 4Xs as much. The total budget for the DHS redo is not unlimited. I'd rather see a larger chunk set aside for Star Wars and possibly an E-ticket Pixar ride. TSPL will add necessary capacity and appeal to kids and their families. On its own it would be incredibly disappointing but as part of a major park overhaul I think it becomes a nice addition.
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
Right on - lots of C and D rides that are themed top notch
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I'd have to say that they would be interested because no business survives very long stagnant. If the census didn't change when they closed the backlot tour, that would be because no one, since the 80's has ever gone there to see that. They saw it because they were there and it was there. When the change over came, don't remember what year that was, it was just a little something to do. More importantly, the number of people that show up isn't anywhere near as important as how many stay there all day.
They have a reason to do something and fixing Toy Story's wait problem will not do it alone. It would seem logical that before you add something that will increase the overall attendance you need to have the old "favorites" ready to handle the additional demand. Except for three attractions (Toy Story, Lil Mermaid and the Muppets) there is very little for kids to do. The question is not why do the want to put in flat rides, the question is when are they going to do it. It would seem to me that any of the "shape pencil boys" would be sadly lacking in the numbers game if they couldn't see the potential lost revenue from not acting on the need.
You have hit on exactly the problem. It boils down to I have no use for that attraction, so it isn't needed or wanted. Besides having the expectation that man lives on dark rides alone, it just doesn't make sense that something else might be of huge value to the overall park.
One of the things that has always stuck with me when people para-phrase Walt's statement about sitting there eating peanuts while his daughters rode the Merry Go Round, that in spite of that what happened with his park when he opened it up? You cannot justify the thought that everything must be for everyone to ride without running into the conflict that his park had a Carrousel, a spinning flying elephant, nauseating spinning tea cups and motorized mini cars that travel at 3 miles per hour. Even though those, just like when he went to the park with his girls, can be ridden by adults, (brings the question, why didn't he ride it with them, but that's another topic) but, they wouldn't travel miles and miles just to ride them. The kids were the drive and the basic premise of even cartoon features were for kids. But they were made palatable for adults to participate in, but, not designed to quench their desires of things to do.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I would consider Mater's to be a "top notch themed" C-ticket and think the new Luigi's ride at least sounds interesting and has that kind of potential. If TSPL features re-skinned versions of these rides as is rumored, I'm at least intrigued enough to not be immediately dismissive of them just because they can be classified as a "flat ride".
Being a flat ride doesn't intrinsically make something bad or not worthy of being in a theme park. And building TSPL doesn't prevent Disney from also putting in other more involved dark rides. I think we are all hoping that we get more than just TSPL from any Pixar expansion (at a minimum, it seems like a Cars dark ride is on the table and I hope there is more than that).
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GoofGoof
Premium Member
I agree that they don't have to build flat rides. They just need more capacity of any kind to spread crowds and even out lines. One of the issues with the TSPL rides in Paris is they lack hourly ride capacity. They are expanding TSMM because it had a lack of capacity that resulted in insanely long lines. Same with Dumbo in MK. If they build some of these rides I hope they address the issue of ride capacity by considering building these as double rides (like Dumbo is now).
I'm not sure what is considered a C or D ticket anymore. I always considered:
A: things like Main Street vehicles that aren't even really rides
B: minor attractions, walkthroughs and/or shows (carousel, Swiss Family Treehouse)
C: rides like Dumbo or Tea Cups more elaborate shows like Country Bears
D: dark rides like Pooh or Pan or Small World or LM
E: the Mountains or ToT are E tickets.
With FLE I've seen people call LM a C ticket and even Mine Train has been referred to as a C/D ticket. For me I'd consider both as solid D tickets. If LM and Mine Train are C tickets then I can't see them building multiple C and D ticket rides.
Based on my classifications of rides I think they need to build a combination of rides that I would consider to be C and D tickets for Pixar expansion while Star Wars should get a major E ticket and possibly another ride (C or D). I'm OK with 2 or 3 C ticket rides as part of a TSPL area along with at least 1 traditional dark ride as a D ticket. It's needed to fill out that section of the park. I'm not set on the specific rides in TSPL and would be perfectly fine with other rides in substitution. What they shouldn't do is just build 1 larger ride instead of several smaller ones. This park needs volume.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
IMHO the Walt quote about building rides for everyone is heavily overused and often misused. What he meant was that he wanted to build a park where parents and children could ride rides together and so stay together as a family. In other words, he didn't want kiddie rides that had a maximum height that required the parents to just stand and wait outside the ride while the kids rode. Even the rides at Disney that are most geared towards kids can still accommodate adults. Walt Disney never wanted to build those kids only carnival type rides. None of the current TSPL rides are kids only. They all accommodate both kids and adults.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
They need capacity. Flat rides provide that. I don't care for them either and I'm not trying to champion for cheap'n'easy, but I still think the park does need them. And yes of course the park needs C and D and E tickets. It needs a LOT of things. I figured it's obvious the park ALSO needs other C/D/E tickets.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
I just think that off the shelf carnival rides like Slinky Dog and RC Racers have no place in modern Disney parks.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don't think RC Racers could ever work at DHS. It's just too low capacity and there is no way around it. The lines would be a nightmare. There was a rumor that the DHS TSPL would substitute a Woody themed version of the Mater ride and possibly a clone of the new ride that's replacing the Luigi's Tires at DCA for RC Racers and the Soldier Parachute ride. I think the Mater ride at DCA looks fun and definitely has a place in a Disney park. I also wouldn't have a problem with a spinner that fits well into the area it's located. The only ride from Paris TSPL that could possibly work is Slinky Dog. There is a version of it in Tokyo too with a different theme (I think LM). It's basic mechanics are no different than an off the shelf carnival ride, but it looks better and fits well in the area.
I would not be opposed to some sort of train or people mover type ride that circles the park in some way or at least winds through Pixar Place. Since they are gutting and redoing half the park, now would be the time to introduce something like that. It would add another non-thrill ride that would work well for both kids and elderly guests who may not be able to ride the parks headliners (ToT, RNRC and Star Tours). By removing what was left of BLT they removed a calm ride suitable for all ages.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
Mater's is a WDI designed ride system, not off the shelf. It is also highly themed. If they stick with this kind of attraction, I don't think most folks here will have much of a problem with it. But we no longer trust Disney to do it right. We know they are more than willing to plop a portable mad mouse in the park, paint Mickey on it and call it a "Disney Quality" attraction.
And there is good reason that we don't want that cheap carp in our Disney Parks. Disney went from 1957 (rocket jets) until 2001 (Mulholland Madness/Orange Stinger/Maliboomer) without introducing a new Disney attraction based on off the shelf ride systems. 44 years without new carnival rides in the Disney Parks. During that time they built MK, Epcot Center, Tokyo Disneyland, Disney-MGM Studios, EuroDisney, and Disney's Animal Kingdom, all without the need to utilize cheap carnival rides. It was during this period of NOT USING CARNIVAL RIDES, that Disney established themeselves as the global leader in Destination Theme Park Resorts.
So, now that Disney is a $130B multinational media conglomerate there is suddenly a need for cheap carp?
Not buying it.
We are getting cheap carp because people will defend it like it was their Mom.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I understand and do agree with you, but we're not getting Slinky Dog, if rumors are to be believed. RC Racer seems more popular and IS appealing to a lot of folks, and that's the only copied ride we'd be getting from the original two TSPL. We'd be getting re-themed versions of Maters and Luigi's (the new version) plus RC. I'd say that's a slight upgrade. Again, not my personal choice but so many are acting as if this is all we'd get. It's not even confirmed officially we're getting the land. I'll be in that camp with everyone else if that's to be the case. And knowing their history, I can understand why some fear that. There simply needs to be a variety of rides for everyone. And even these rides have height restrictions. It's not like it's going to become the Magic Kingdom of Strollers.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
I say give us the rethemed Mater and Luigi rides with a bigger capacity and ditch RC Racer completely. Use whatever money that would cost to either bump up the budget of a nice dark ride or give us a real Pizza Planet.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
I don't think people are concerned that that is all we are getting, I think people are concerned that Disney is heaping a pile of tater tots on our plate next to our $60 filet/$23 glass of Dark Red Blend.
Why is that so hard for some of you Disney supporters to get? Cheap carp in our top $$$$ resort causes cognitive dissonance in some.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I 100% agree. I don't care to see RC Racer, to be honest.
Yep. Empty.
Regarding the timelines, I was told originally TSMM would be completed before Soarin' began. Guess that changed.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
The funny thing is that due to the limitations of the time period and Walt's limited financial resources heavily themed flat rides were the best he could manage in the early days of Disneyland. While some of them like Dumbo and the Tea Cups remained popular attractions it was never Walt Disney's intention to say "the parks always should have flat rides". In fact he quickly moved away from that as his company grew and started working on more ambitious projects like Monorails, people mover, Submarine Voyage, Pirates of the Caribbean, Hautned Mansion, etc. When Epcot Center and MGM Studios opened they didn't have any flat rides to speak of it would have been embarrassing. But here we are 30 years later and a wealthier and more resourceful Walt Disney Company than Walt Disney could ever have imagined has decided to just stick with adding some themed flat rides to all of the parks instead of letting the Imagineers come up with groundbreaking attractions that will actually get people excited and more motivated to visit the parks.
What a great way to "class things up" *rolls eyes*
roj2323
Well-Known Member
That might have been the case before the last minute decision to throw Frozen in sound stage one. When the decision dropped to do Frozen Summer Fun it was a surprise to everyone as it hadn't existed even as an idea 2 weeks before. Everyone got caught with their pants down especially Backlands Attractions cast members who had to man the event. Schedules were changed in massive ways last minute and well lets just say not everyone was properly trained the first few days. All that said the Event was a huge success as the park was blowing past attendance projections every day by thousands.