News Toy Story Mania to be available via standby queue ahead of entrance relocation

[CalebS]

For me personally, I believe that it is a capacity problem and not a FP+ problem

 

[Gabe1]

They will complain, but, before long they won't be angry about it and they will understand that it is a much more pleasant experience overall.

Given the ying and yang of it all....I agree. Old enough to have done it both ways long before the defunct FP. Waiting your turn and moving along...I did prefer.

 

[marni1971]

Then how come lines on attractions with no FastPass have been overly long as well?

Such as?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes it has. Dramatically.

In 2010, MK's yearly attendance was 17 million (according to TEA). In 2016 it was 20.4 million. That's 3.4 million more people per year. That's, on average, an extra 9,315 per day in the park. Every hour, those extra 9,315 people want to be on a ride... in a park that was already nearing peak. Tipping point tipped.

And by all anecdotal accounts, 2017 and 2018 are more heavily attended than 2016. The 2017 figures will be out in June.

FP+ makes waiting longer for one group and one group only: Those who can't schedule any FP+s.

FTFY They are paying customers too!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Pirates and Haunted Mansion would go from a 45 minute wait to walk on to 5 minute wait without FP.

Nobody can know for sure. But if that's true, the line for something else would get even longer. All those people who WERE riding Pirates and Mansion with Fastpasses would have to be doing something with their time. If they're not riding Pirates and Mansion standby, they'd be riding something else standby.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Capacity doesn't change but the potential customers per line is lower.

No it isn't. Potential customers goes up tremendously because all the former FP+ customers at any given time now become standby customers.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Not necessarily, and without the restrictions of FP you can bypass a line that is too long and come back later when it isn't. No matter how busy the parks are there are slow times for every attraction. You have just as much chance to be near the front of the line as the last. Not everyone shows up at the same time.

Yes, depending on touring style, individual people and individual attractions can see positive or negative effects from FP (original or Plus). When I'm talking about a net neutral impact, I'm referring to aggregate impacts for an average guest across all attractions. If anything, the impact of FP+ should be slightly favorable in total because it diverts people to attractions that would otherwise have unused capacity. For every person that unwittingly books a FP for the Disney/Pixar Short Film Festival, that's one less person who might be in line for Frozen, Soarin, or Test Track.

 

[nickys]

Yes it’s an extra 3 on top of the usual 3. So they can have six at a time. I believe though that they are only able to book the extra 3 at 90 days and not all 6 but I could be wrong.

I see this as just the beginning of paid FP at WDW.

That was what was stated. However the Signature Services CMs were making all 6 FPs at 90 days.

 

[mikejs78]

Such as?

PeooleMover is the one that comes to mind the most...

 

[marni1971]

PeooleMover is the one that comes to mind the most...

I thought it would.

A recent directive is to avoid queuing on the speed ramp. So the greeter had to hold the line until the station area is clear and then allow the next group of guests up. So this start-stop creates an artificially long line. Much like FP merge does.

 

[kelknight84]

No, it isn't. The attendance in the park won't change so potential customers per line is the exact same.

No it isn't. Potential customers goes up tremendously because all the former FP+ customers at any given time now become standby customers.

Currently I can Fast pass the 3 major attractions in a park back to back in 3 hours. Their standbys are longer waits than that. If I had to wait the full time I would get to the other attraction later because I'm stuck in line. So right now during my fast pass window I'll ride 1-2 low wait rides before using my fastpass. If FP was gone I can't join a new line until I ride the prior ride.

Another example is once I use my 3 prescheduled passes I have no time constraints. I can keep picking new ones. Many times I'll see a 45+ wait for Pirates, Mansion, Buzz (as examples) but there is a fastpass for 5 minutes out. I'll grab it and go ride. As soon as I scan my band I can reserve the next ride before even riding. I bet I could probably ride 1 of those 3 times before a standby person did it once.

But again with fastpass not around, the fastpass people will be in a line and not be able to be in multiple at a time. So yes more people in line (1 line) that actually moves and not in multiple simultaneously.

I brought up a point in another thread where the Peter Pan cast member pulled too many people from fastpass and I was stuck right at their computer. I was shocked to see that clear as day it displayed posted standby wait time 60 minutes and right next to it actual standby wait time 12 minutes. I knew they played with times but a 48 minute difference was pretty drastic.

They want less people in lines to buy more food and merchandise.

 

[Coaster Lover]

Capacity doesn't change but the potential customers per line is lower.

But capacity DOES change. I thought it was pretty widely accepted now that Disney will adjust the number of ride vehicles on an attraction and/or the number of cast members on an attraction based on the anticipated park attendance (more vehicles on a day that is expected to be busier, fewer vehicles on days when they anticipated to be slower). While capacity of an omnimover can't be changed (well, maybe if you sped up or slowed down the speed that the system is moving), you can certainly run fewer boats on Pirates, or have fewer cast members checking restraints causing a longer period to clear each ride vehicle. It seems that this was not always the way it was with Disney running (basically) full capacity on all attractions, all day, every day of the year (resulting in very short lines during "slower" periods).

 

[kelknight84]

But capacity DOES change. I thought it was pretty widely accepted now that Disney will adjust the number of ride vehicles on an attraction and/or the number of cast members on an attraction based on the anticipated park attendance (more vehicles on a day that is expected to be busier, fewer vehicles on days when they anticipated to be slower). While capacity of an omnimover can't be changed (well, maybe if you sped up or slowed down the speed that the system is moving), you can certainly run fewer boats on Pirates, or have fewer cast members checking restraints causing a longer period to clear each ride vehicle. It seems that this was not always the way it was with Disney running (basically) full capacity on all attractions, all day, every day of the year (resulting in very short lines during "slower" periods).

Very true.

 

[mikejs78]

But capacity DOES change. I thought it was pretty widely accepted now that Disney will adjust the number of ride vehicles on an attraction and/or the number of cast members on an attraction based on the anticipated park attendance (more vehicles on a day that is expected to be busier, fewer vehicles on days when they anticipated to be slower). While capacity of an omnimover can't be changed (well, maybe if you sped up or slowed down the speed that the system is moving), you can certainly run fewer boats on Pirates, or have fewer cast members checking restraints causing a longer period to clear each ride vehicle. It seems that this was not always the way it was with Disney running (basically) full capacity on all attractions, all day, every day of the year (resulting in very short lines during "slower" periods).

Capacity doesn't change as the result of FP+ or not. That's the point I and others are making. Whether Disney artificially limits capacity for other reasons is another matter.

 

[MisterPenguin]

FTFY They are paying customers too!

And FP is equally available to them.

Without FP, then avoiding lines goes to those who show up super early and the paying customers who show up at 11 AM are screwed. No FP, then, encourages the whole attendance for the day to all show up at once an hour or two before opening. People with FPs for later in the day don't have to play that game.

But, what you just pointed out is a different argument from whether FP artificially inflate all the lines. They don't unless they is the expectation that some people won't even get to three rides in one day.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I thought it would.

A recent directive is to avoid queuing on the speed ramp. So the greeter had to hold the line until the station area is clear and then allow the next group of guests up. So this start-stop creates an artificially long line. Much like FP merge does.

Then that would mean a back-up all the time, which isn't the case.

An Unmentionable Blogger has photos from this week where TTA is hugely backed up as well as HoP. Tipping point is tipping point.

MK has an extra 3 million people per year in the past 10 years. I find that a more compelling reason HM isn't a walk-on than FPs.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It seems that this was not always the way it was with Disney running (basically) full capacity on all attractions, all day, every day of the year (resulting in very short lines during "slower" periods).

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but I'm still waiting for someone working in ops from years ago to say that during those off peak times that we used to characterize as 'dead times' that they had both Dumbos running and all the boats and trains on all the rides at full capacity in mid-September or the last week of January. Are you sure they never reduced staffing in off-peak times years ago?

But then again, the reduced operating hours and the tradition of taking the big rides down for refurb during the 'dead times' was a longstanding tradition of reducing capacity during off-peak times.

 

[Jenny72]

Maybe if you average out the time all the riders have to wait for all the rides, there is no difference with or without FP. But the way it is, it makes it so that some people can ride 7 FP rides a day with little wait, and some people get their 3 (or 2, if they use one for a night show) and then have to wait on interminably long lines that seem to never move. So the current system rewards a lot of "gaming" the system and staring at your smartphone. If a guest hasn't figured out the best way to make this work (crowd your FPs early in the day, keep refreshing the page, criss-cross the park to get to your next FP), they're tanked. Of course, being aware of crowd distribution was always helpful at Disney, but now it's so extreme and so unbalanced.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Maybe if you average out the time all the riders have to wait for all the rides, there is no difference with or without FP. But the way it is, it makes it so that some people can ride 7 FP rides a day with little wait, and some people get their 3 (or 2, if they use one for a night show) and then have to wait on interminably long lines that seem to never move. So the current system rewards a lot of "gaming" the system and staring at your smartphone. If a guest hasn't figured out the best way to make this work (crowd your FPs early in the day, keep refreshing the page, criss-cross the park to get to your next FP), they're tanked. Of course, being aware of crowd distribution was always helpful at Disney, but now it's so extreme and so unbalanced.

There's always going to be ways to maximize the efficiency of one's 'touring plan.' Without FPs, you could show up an hour before the gate opens, or arrive late at night. Or you do what I've been doing, plan to go during the historically slow parts of the year (which don't exist any more ). The problem of gaming any system to get ahead of others is that other people will catch on and do what you do and thus ruin your strategy. Or, WDW will start to incentivize people to not attend during peak times and entice them to go off-peak (ticket price increases, off-peak room discounts, etc...).

A lot (not all) of the FP+ haters would pine for the old paper FP ticket system... which rewarded the ones who knew how to game that system by running from kiosk to kiosk early in the morning leaving the same number of people who couldn't get the paper FPs (or knew how) screwed as much as those who didn't get a FP+.

If FP+s were discontinued, Space Mountain will be a 90 minute wait for everyone, except those who show up an hour before the gate opens, and then, for them, it was still an hour wait. The line will go faster without FP+s, but there will be more people in line because all those people who once had FP+s are now entering the standby line with you. And because they didn't schedule their SM ride at 4 PM, for example, they'll all crowd into the early morning spiking the wait time to 2 hours.

FP+s give a certain number of people the opportunity to schedule their Space Mountain ride and not wait 60-90 minutes. It spreads the crowds throughout the day.

 

[Jenny72]

But the difference here is, as Goofyerenmost pointed out, that now the people who didn't game the system have to stand there and watch the "smart ones" parade past them. It's really a bummer. And not everyone can game it, if they don't have access to a smartphone. The kiosks hardly compare (I know, because I use them). So it just feels different than "gaming it" by getting there early and running to Space Mountain. That's fun. Now it feels more like the haves and the have-nots, even when it's technically open to everyone.