LMA is not affecting TSL. Never has.
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Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
LMA is not affecting TSL. Never has.
JassiSidhu2000
Active Member
The concept arts for Paris and Hong Kong also looked very impressive too. But the reality was they just lumbered a few cheap attractions there with very little else other than some bright colours.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
OK, assuming that is true. How do they save money by not investing. Capital expenditures are expenses that are done via amortization not cash out of the bank type expense. There would have to be other reasons and if I had to guess anything other then preparation it would be ruling by committee and lack of solid decision making. Without finalized plans, you can't even start site preparation. Where do you put foundations, what size are they, what are the engineering aspects of the site and actual earth moving. None can start until all is engineered to as close a final as possible. They can't order the special items for the finish theming until they know what the tolerances must be, what will work and everything is pretty much a final decision in that area. Even the simplest of off the rack designs, still have to have a foundation to work with and they cannot guess where that will be ahead of time just to satisfy some incredibly amateur attempts to justify that it is taking to long to do.
Since Disney doesn't do it's own work anymore. No one of us has idea what is involved with lining up, bidding and getting a work force skilled enough to do the stuff that you guys demand from a Disney attraction. This is especially true in an area that is exploding in theme park building within a very small area of Florida. Recruiting, hiring, equipment movement is more then sticking a shovel in the ground and like magic, it's all done. So before you accuse me of making no sense in my arguments be sure that you can back up your opinions with fact and complete consideration of the elements involved in any construction process, whether it be Disney or anyone else.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Once again, Disney does not do design-bid. So this is all still just wrong.
DVCOwner
A Long Time DVC Member
I do not know if Disney never does design build; but the one project I was briefed on a few years ago was a fully completed CADD (computer-aided design and drafting) before it was bid for construction. There was even 3D modeling to make sure that the building construction portion of the project did not interfere with the ride portion.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
BIM doesn't prevent fast track and those types of documents are not done at the very end of design.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
My point is only design wise, and attraction wise, it is different than HKDL and DLP. I think it is a bit larger as well. But...we will see what the finished product looks like. It may be better...it may not be...
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I don't see how that's possible unless they do the work themselves. No one in their right mind would ever bid a job without the details. Unless it's just a blank check. What is it that they do or are you just playing with wording? If they don't do it, as what I think design-bid is, it shouldn't be any surprise that Disney pays way to much for their construction. Basically, everything would be a line item, change order situation. Without design (rough) they have absolutely logical way to know how much budget to ask for. Without detail design the vendors would have no way to build anything. Is that what they mean by Disney Magic? Perhaps, I just don't understand what you mean by Design-Bid. Enlighten me please.
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
Told ya, consistent lol
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
Again what your essays continue to do is misrepresent the truth in favor of the fallacy that Disney actually cares when it comes to the design and construction here. Disney has demo'd and gotten rid of buildings and attractions only to replace them with a temp building or sometimes nothing.
Last I checked the demo for this ended in 2004. And New Fantasyland didn't start up construction till 2010. So what's the excuse for the entirety of the BLT sitting unused, empty, and literally stagnant for the last 2 years when clearly demo could have been done to expedite the process. And as many an insider has already stated design can change literally mid construction so your foundation drivel also makes 0 sense. I could continue on and on but for the sake of brevity and most peoples sanity this is the last I am going to comment on this.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I guess you are right, I should realize that they just dump a bunch of construction equipment on a big field and tell them to start digging. At some point we will tell you were we need stuff, but, until them just keep busy. What you are talking about are called change orders. Those do not happen until after construction has started or a contract has been signed with prices set. Any changes at that point are additional charges. However, they start with a complete detailed set of blueprints. Those don't just materialize out of thin air.Again what your essays continue to do is misrepresent the truth in favor of the fallacy that Disney actually cares when it comes to the design and construction here. Disney has demo'd and gotten rid of buildings and attractions only to replace them with a temp building or sometimes nothing.
Last I checked the demo for this ended in 2004. And New Fantasyland didn't start up construction till 2010. So what's the excuse for the entirety of the BLT sitting unused, empty, and literally stagnant for the last 2 years when clearly demo could have been done to expedite the process. And as many an insider has already stated design can change literally mid construction so your foundation drivel also makes 0 sense. I could continue on and on but for the sake of brevity and most peoples sanity this is the last I am going to comment on this.
This conversation is going nowhere due to the fact you and others keep changing the focus as to why something is happening today in 2016 where I'm talking about the specific area that we are dealing with, not what things that happened before, in some cases long before. We weren't talking about how long it took to decide to do something, we are discussion how long it should take to build what has presently been announced. Everyone seems to think that once they made the decision it should be just a matter of minutes before construction starts and the project is completed. It isn't realistic or even reasonable, however, why I expect anything else from these threads is definitely a mistake on my part. So, go ahead and say whatever you want, attempt to know why Disney does things without knowing the entire process. I know that I don't know the entire process, but, I am familiar with construction and the over simplification is astounding. I guess I will take the advice of Elsa and just let it go.
dstrawn9889
Well-Known Member
have you drafted a set of blueprints?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
As someone who keeps claiming to understand all of this you should understand a fast-track process. Construction starts before design work is complete. Construction documents are phased to more follow the building process because the contractor is brought in early to assist with that coordination.
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Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
OK, no I don't understand the Fast Track process, in how it relates to Disney. Their stuff it highly specialized, I don't see how they can fast track anything without running the risk of massive overruns. If I were on the board of directors I would be questioning that process and if I still owned stock in the place I would be questioning it even further. They haven't fast tracked anything since they built Disneyland. However, even if they did, you have to start someplace, the blueprints are basic, but, it has to show where everything is going and what it's going to be just to have the earthwork done and they have to be precise in the location and dimensions. They might be able to design the building based on the footprint already established, but, I just don't see how they could not have had to make pretty much all the decision about content before they could do anything fast track or not. Certainly they cannot build any building without detailed drawings and dimensions, engineering calculations etc. So what would be the purpose of starting the land work before they were able to do anything about it. It's not that I don't believe what you are saying in principle, but, the process is only as good as the plans. They can change engineering requirement for the building even if it's nearly done, but, they cannot start it without something for the surveyors, engineers and construction crews to work with. If you can tell me how they bypass that, I will concede defeat, but, because of my construction background, I'm not buying that it is possible without engineered blueprints. The question never has been, in my mind, what takes so long to build it, the question is what takes so long to decide what to build.
They can fast track it by breaking it up in sections, but, each section still has to be solid otherwise they just make useless movements that end up being changed anyway with the result of delayed construction. However, nothing can be done without detailed blueprints for each phase of construction when it is being done.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
That's not to mention any potential legal proceedings that need to be undertaken. Permits and what have you.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Fast track describes a process, not a time frame, and even for Disney is still faster than the bid process because so much of the show work is not as important to the major construction. And yes, it is breaking up the project into sections, which is still completely contrary to what you keep pushing along with your constant downplaying of the level of detail in the various phases of design. Grading and foundations can all be designed without knowing the final details of the building elevations or show sets.
While it is taken seriously, almost all permits related to Walt Disney World are handled by the Reedy Creek Improvement District.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
There's a reason (well many actually) that Bruce Vaughn was let go.
It's not a WDW specific problem, Tokyo and Hong Kong have also suffered with these massive delays.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
It's not contrary at all. What I have been unsuccessfully trying to say is that I doesn't take all that long to build it, what takes the time is for Disney to make up it's mind about what they want to do. As I have stated over and over... it is a decision by committee and that takes forever. The discussion was why haven't they started yet. The answer is still because they either haven' t made up their mind what they want or they finally have and now it must be engineered starting with the land change and attraction placement, then they can get around to figuring out how to design the building, engineering wise to make it work. I will argue until I die, that they cannot even do earth work without knowing what is going where and what type of work is required to make that happen. Otherwise you just throw a bunch of men and machines in there and let them have at it with no direction of purpose and nothing you can say changes that. Everything and every project has to start someplace and it cannot be manufactured from thin air.
I'm planning to move on from here. This entire discussion is getting silly beyond belief. They will start when they start and not a second before and all the jaw flapping in the world will not change that nor will the speed with which they accomplish things.