Toy Story and Soarin Rumors

[cw1982]

A third (and potentially 4th) track and a third (and potentially 4th) theater are bandaids. But Bandaids do serve a purpose. We know that Star Wars expansion is happening, the problem is the time frame (5 years). At Epcot, we anticipate a Frozen attraction is coming, as are potentially other additions. I would expect Frozen and Soarin' Over the world to be online at around the same time.

Increasing capacity at high demand attractions is a good thing, we just want to see it done in conjunction with new experiences. At Epcot there are new experiences coming with the capacity changes. At Hollywood Studios, those new experiences are likely coming after.

So, assuming that capacity increases are happening, we have to look at the motivation. We can look at guest satisfaction as a reason, and that's all well and good, but it's not guest satisfaction by itself. It's guest satisfaction as it relates to Fastpass+ and Next Gen. Look at the most frequent complaints about Next Gen:

• We don't like planning in advance
• We don't like how Fastpass+ reservations aren't available day of
• The tiers are confusing
  
• We like being able to switch to popular attractions if our plans change

Adding capacity to the two most popular attractions in the parks helps with all of these. Sure there will still be problems like Test Track, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, and Frozen in Norway, but expanding Soarin' and Toy Story will likely be enough to eliminate tiers and give more flexibility. It's digging deeper into the Next Gen problem (which was flawed from the beginning), but it's a way in Disney's mind to "make it work". The other way of course, is to also add new attractions.

Like I said earlier, my issue is more about TDO not seeming to want to multi task. Imo, adding capacity and adding attractions are things that should both happen, but if we're not going to get them both at the same time, the new attractions need to happen first. I would hate to see TDO say that the capacity increases on TSMM and Soarin were so effective that they no longer see a need to add as many new rides. It's not like they've been in a big hurry to add anything elsewhere.

I know there are rumors about Star Wars at HS, but I haven't heard anything about new rides coming to Epcot, aside from the overlay, which doesn't really count as a new ride since it's a replacement. Sure, it'll take away some of the demand for other rides, but that only goes so far.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Like I said earlier, my issue is more about TDO not seeming to want to multi task. Imo, adding capacity and adding attractions are things that should both happen, but if we're not going to get them both at the same time, the new attractions need to happen first. I would hate to see TDO say that the capacity increases on TSMM and Soarin were so effective that they no longer see a need to add as many new rides. It's not like they've been in a big hurry to add anything elsewhere.

I know there are rumors about Star Wars at HS, but I haven't heard anything about new rides coming to Epcot, aside from the overlay, which doesn't really count as a new ride since it's a replacement. Sure, it'll take away some of the demand for other rides, but that only goes so far.

Agreed, but this is nothing new. The reality is that these capacity increases should have coincided with new additions and the launch of Next Gen/Fastpass+. Soarin' expansion was proposed in the original xPass presentation.

 

[cw1982]

Agreed, but this is nothing new. The reality is that these capacity increases should have coincided with new additions and the launch of Next Gen/Fastpass+. Soarin' expansion was proposed in the original xPass presentation.

Sounds like we agree then, we're just saying it differently lol.

 

[WDWResort]

Anybody got an aerial view of the construction behind The Land?

 

[danlb_2000]

Anybody got an aerial view of the construction behind The Land?

As far as we know, there is no construction going on yet. The rumor is just that some storage trailers have been moved and some markers have shown up.

 

[WDWResort]

As far as we know, there is no construction going on yet. The rumor is just that some storage trailers have been moved and some markers have shown up.

Oh okay, got you. Thanks.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Anybody got an aerial view of the construction behind The Land?

Yep, no real construction yet. Plenty of new markers though, as reported before.

 

[CaptainShortty]

Anybody got an aerial view of the construction behind The Land?

There isn't any actual construction happening yet...just survey work is being done right now.

 

[MichWolv]

If these capacity expansions happen, I think they point to not just an unwillingness to spend money on attractions, or an inability to Multi-task, or whatever. Instead, it suggests that Disney has decided that:


1. There are currently more things to do than most visitors have time to do during their limited vacation.

2. Adding attractions will not cause a substantive increase in the number of visitors or length of visit.

3. As such, there isn't a need to build more big ticket attractions at a fast pace.

4. Adding new attractions will not appreciably impact guest satisfaction, as the guests would still not be able to do all that they would want to.

5. Instead, guest satisfaction can best be increased by letting them do more of what's already here than they currently have time to do

6. MM+ is part of that. Less line time, more ride, shopping, entertainment time.

7. So is increasing capacity. Let everybody ride Soarin and TSMM with a smaller wait. Essentially, WDW gets the equivalent of a new attraction in terms of guest satisfaction (because the shorter wait means either somebody rides TSMM an extra time or has time for another attraction), but doesn't need to design and build -- just copy.

8. And cutting a few acts at Epcot? Not as much of a big deal, if it's already true that people don't have time to do all that they would like. Put in a couple more child friendly acts (lumberjacks beats Scottish music for most kids), and shift the balance a bit.

9. Oh, and those trips that aren't going to get longer no matter what we do -- let's make sure people can spend more for an upgraded experience if they wish, so add up charge events, particularly after hours.

It all fits with a theory that fast growth won't be rewarded sufficiently because the place is already big enough to consume as much vacation as people are willing to give it. So you spend money making the trip more efficient, thus allowing rates to rise due to higher satisfaction without lots of growth. The only exception is the DAK sparkle that's coming, which suggests that, at that park, WDW thinks added spend can increase visit length.

 

[BrerJon]

It all fits with a theory that fast growth won't be rewarded sufficiently because the place is already big enough to consume as much vacation as people are willing to give it. So you spend money making the trip more efficient, thus allowing rates to rise due to higher satisfaction without lots of growth. The only exception is the DAK sparkle that's coming, which suggests that, at that park, WDW thinks added spend can increase visit length.

I hope you're wrong, but I think you might have pinned it down exactly. Your points certainly fit with all the evidence we've seen so far.

I wonder if somewhere along the line an internal presentation was done saying the thing guests most hate about WDW is not getting to see it all in one go, and at that point the focus was changed to finding ways to let them do just that. It's short-sighted for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[MichWolv]

I hope you're wrong, but I think you might have pinned it down exactly. Your points certainly fit with all the evidence we've seen so far.

I wonder if somewhere along the line an internal presentation was done saying the thing guests most hate about WDW is not getting to see it all in one go, and at that point the focus was changed to finding ways to let them do just that. It's short-sighted for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Multiple presentations, I would guess. Don't know yet if if short-sighted. The logical follow-on, if I'm right, to such a plan, would be to implement all of the efficiency initiatives you can, and gradually improve what's there largely by upgrades as opposed to additional attractions. It's a long game, and I don't know that it'll be an effective one. But I thought $4 billion for Marvel sounded dumb and that Frozen was just on par with Tangled, so I may not be the best judge.

 

[Next Big Thing]

That's flawed logic, @BrerJon. Not that i'd expect Disney execs to reasonably think things through though.

What i'm saying is, your point was Disney may not be adding things bc vacations aren't getting any longer and there's already enough to do. But that's not true. Sure MK has plenty to do and I can spend a whole day in Epcot easy, even if the attraction line-up is lighter than it should be. But DAK? DHS? Those are days out of a vacation too. If someone is going to DHS, they're going to realize awful quick there isn't much to do in the park if you don't like shows, especially if you have small children.

All of this money spent on upping the capacity at TSMM and Soarin could be spent on a new attraction for DHS and it would not only provide the same or greater purpose, but it would be more marketable. I just don't get what this company is doing most of the time anymore.

 

[BrerJon]

Disney execs seem to be treating the symptoms, but ignoring the disease that caused them, and spectacularly missing the point in the process.

 

[MichWolv]

That's flawed logic, @BrerJon. Not that i'd expect Disney execs to reasonably think things through though.

What i'm saying is, your point was Disney may not be adding things bc vacations aren't getting any longer and there's already enough to do. But that's not true. Sure MK has plenty to do and I can spend a whole day in Epcot easy, even if the attraction line-up is lighter than it should be. But DAK? DHS? Those are days out of a vacation too. If someone is going to DHS, they're going to realize awful quick there isn't much to do in the park if you don't like shows, especially if you have small children.

All of this money spent on upping the capacity at TSMM and Soarin could be spent on a new attraction for DHS and it would not only provide the same or greater purpose, but it would be more marketable. I just don't get what this company is doing most of the time anymore.

Everything I wrote, and @BrerJon largely agreed with is just speculation, so please don't take it as anything more than that.

You're saying that DHS And DAK aren't full day parks...and I think many people do see it that way. Disney execs may see it that way as well and perhaps that's why a big Star Wars presense is coming (if it is) to DHS at some point. In the meantime, they've nailed the small children market with Frozen stuff, and added a fireworks show to give another reason for people to stick around at night (at least temporarily). And perhaps Disney execs think people who leave DHS early just go Epcot or MK, so the fact that park doesn't take a whole day doesn't shorten the time people spend at WDW.

DAK is being addressed with Pandora, night safari, and Rivers of Light. Perhaps that one is being addressed because Disney thinks some people skip that park entirely in favor a day at Uni or Sea World.

Or perhaps my speculation is completely wrong. It is merely an attempt to understand "what this company is doing". An explanation of "short-term focus, no understanding of the customer, penny-wise pound foolish, focus only on reducing costs" is incomplete, because it doesn't address the question of "why". Corporations as sophisticated and successful as Disney have strategies that flow from analysis. The analysis can be flawed, and the strategies wrong, but they aren't random or half-baked.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I love MK and never get bored there- ever.

I fear that even with Avatar, AK still needs some C/D ticket rides to help keep guests busy if they are to stay all day.

And EPCOT and HS just need some new things to do. If you've been to HS in the last 20 years there is not much that you have not already done countless times.

I'm excited for Disney Springs and the love AK is getting. Here's hoping the HS revamp is coming sooner rather than later.

 

[twebber55]

i think the expansion at DAK addresses a couple of issues....first it will bring more people to WDW second it disperses people more evenly in the evenings when MK is bursting with people

 

[AndyMagic]

Disney execs seem to be treating the symptoms, but ignoring the disease that caused them, and spectacularly missing the point in the process.

Quite true. This is like giving aspirin to someone with typhoid. The fever will go down temporarily but the patient will still die unless he/she gets antibiotics.

 

[WDWResort]

i think the expansion at DAK addresses a couple of issues....first it will bring more people to WDW second it disperses people more evenly in the evenings when MK is bursting with people

Yes! I feel with DAK becoming a "nighttime" park, it will relieve some of the crowds from MK on EMH nights.

 

[PKD]

There are two tracks currently. We looked at it earlier in this thread (@Rob562 posted it)

Soundstage 1 is to the left of this, with the dark green area being the queue. It should be easy to reconfigure the queue for an additional track (or two) on the left.



No doubt this is true. They could also update Little Mermaid and Big Thunder as well.

RSoxN1, if you have reviewed my past post, you'll notice where the above image first came from. (Though without the colors) You will also see that I don't speak often to projects without making sure the information I am giving is accurate at the time.

Folks are always welcome to be skeptical, so much is said that is just wishing or "talk" that never goes beyond just that.

As for who I am or my sources, I'll just let my past speak for itself. Sorry, but the few here who do know me personally understand why.

As for it being done, It might not be a new attraction as many on the boards would like but the need is there for the average guest. I personally would love a new attraction (give it time folks, they are coming) but TSM could use the 3rd track.

As for design, the set up is to have the 3rd track as the FP+ queue, with it's own load/unload. (The load/unload information is still a little vague for me. Just being honest)

 

[boufa]

...and just because you dont see the money being spent doesn't mean it isn't being spent.

DHS and DAK are widely belived to be be getting their upgrades (you are starting to see it at DAK, and I think a few years from now when we look back, we will be able to say that we can see the start at DHS too). These things go slowly. Perhaps, to spread out construction, they are working on capacity things now, and designing things in the background... at some point when the capacity issues are close to done being taken care of, they will begin construction on the DHS stuff.

Along those lines.... if they do a major rehab to DHS, tearing up the park in ways that will disrupt the entire thing for a few years, won't that throw people into other parks?!?!? Maybe they are not willing to do...

1) The hub (capacity)
2) Disney Springs
3) Rivers of light/Avatar

all at the same time along with DHS (star wars, etc). Would you want to travel to a place with so much construction... at this point its already borderline on being everywhere.