Toy Story and Soarin Rumors

[msteel]

Expanding an existing ride is faster and cheaper then designing and building something new. It's also very low risk since you know the ride system works, and you know it's already popular. Classic low-risk management decision. Not saying I like it, but I understand why they would choose to do it.

Low risk decisions can be good ones. I would applaud added capacity at TSMM - especially if there are also new experiences as well.

 

[doctornick]

Yes, the queue can be split. But if this is happening, it would make more sense for the existing tracks to be used exclusively for Fastpass+. In the event that they're sending through empty vehicles, then standby can be diverted to the existing tracks instead of over to the new track. Think of it like how Pirates is set up now. The right side is primarily used for Fastpass+, but Standby can be integrated on an as needed basis.

That does seem to make sense. It would be more flexible, I think, than the reverse of having FP+ use the new track. Also, it allows for continued use of the current setup for DAS without much/any modification.

 

[Mawg]

There seems to be a common argument here: What is the best way to alleviate capacity problems, increase the capacity of an existing ride or build more attractions? Obviously in terms of cost its a no brainer to just expand an existing ride. But what benefit does this have to Disney. Can they start advertising, come to DHS you may now be able to ride TSMM more than once. That would be a great advertisement, no? Do we really think they would be doing it because of guests complaints and overall guests satisfaction, maybe, but I doubt it. So why do it?

I believe the expansion of this ride fits into a long term plan for an overall park expansion. If they were just going to build some new attractions or add on some areas to this park then there would be no reason to increase capacity of TSMM as eventually the new attractions will solve some of the capacity issues with TSMM. But, they are not building new attractions in some remote or new area of the park. They will be closing a significant amount of attractions in order to build new. During this time demand for attractions within this park and other parks will go up (with all the construction some people will steer clear of the park altogether).

Expanding TSMM is not some plan to solve a current capacity problem with the ride it is a plan to solve a future capacity problem that will become increasingly worse once existing attractions are shut down to make room for the construction of new attractions.

I believe this expansion of TSMM is evidence of new attractions on the horizon, so patience, let's wait until 2025 before we put too much judgment on this plan.

 

[Mawg]

There seems to be a common argument here: What is the best way to alleviate capacity problems, increase the capacity of an existing ride or build more attractions? Obviously in terms of cost its a no brainer to just expand an existing ride. But what benefit does this have to Disney. Can they start advertising, come to DHS you may now be able to ride TSMM more than once. That would be a great advertisement, no? Do we really think they would be doing it because of guests complaints and overall guests satisfaction, maybe, but I doubt it. So why do it?

I believe the expansion of this ride fits into a long term plan for an overall park expansion. If they were just going to build some new attractions or add on some areas to this park then there would be no reason to increase capacity of TSMM as eventually the new attractions will solve some of the capacity issues with TSMM. But, they are not building new attractions in some remote or new area of the park. They will be closing a significant amount of attractions in order to build new. During this time demand for attractions within this park and other parks will go up (with all the construction some people will steer clear of the park altogether).

Expanding TSMM is not some plan to solve a current capacity problem with the ride it is a plan to solve a future capacity problem that will become increasingly worse once existing attractions are shut down to make room for the construction of new attractions.

I believe this expansion of TSMM is evidence of new attractions on the horizon, so patience, let's wait until 2025 before we put too much judgment on this plan.

To add to this, I believe we will eventually be looking at a complete park makeover comparable to DCA. Prior to the park makeover, DCA was pulling in around 15,000 to 16,000 guests a day. After the makeover, attendance jumped to 23,000 to 24,000 guests a day. Roughly 8000 more guests visit DCA a day now that the park is made over. If I'm right and we are to see DHS get made over like DCA was, could TSMM really handle 8,000 more people a day? Granted maybe some would skip the attraction now that there is more to do but that many?

So again, the addition of a 3rd track is not to solve current capacity problems but projected (worse) future ones.

 

[flyerjab]

They will be closing a significant amount of attractions in order to build new. During this time demand for attractions within this park and other parks will go up (with all the construction some people will steer clear of the park altogether).

Expanding TSMM is not some plan to solve a current capacity problem with the ride it is a plan to solve a future capacity problem that will become increasingly worse once existing attractions are shut down to make room for the construction of new attractions.

I believe this expansion of TSMM is evidence of new attractions on the horizon, so patience, let's wait until 2025 before we put too much judgment on this plan.

I completely agree with this opinion and have said as much on the threads before. I believe that this is solely a strategic move ahead of a larger revamp of this park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I completely agree with this opinion and have said as much on the threads before. I believe that this is solely a strategic move ahead of a larger revamp of this park.

I'm still not convinced the Toy Story capacity expansion is happening. Having said that, it would be in line with other capacity increases that appear to be occurring lately. Parking garages at Disney Springs, Double Dumbos, Hub expansion, Soarin' capacity increase are all designed to allow for more guests.

 

[PeterAlt]

NOT MY RUMOR. I"M JUST POSTING IT.

"Well, according to my sources, much of the challenges relative to waiting in long queues will partly be relieved as Epcot’s Soarin’ has commenced work on a third theater behind The Land. Already, a number of trailers have been removed from behind that area to allow for the building of an additional theater/projection system. Currently there are two theaters already when the entire attraction is up and running. With the new movie being added where guests will be Soarin’ around the world instead of just California, it’s considered that this will help relieve some of the additional demand for experiencing the attraction.

Interestingly the same thing is being planned for Disney’s Toy Story Mania. Because of how the vehicles spin about, many guests don’t know that there are actually two track systems that carry guests through the many games. By taking over the Soundstage 1 space temporarily held by the wildly popular Oaken’s Trading Post and Frozen Funland, they will be able to add an additional track and again increase capacity. The upside of that is that more guests will experience the attraction. The downside is that many had hoped the space would be used for another attraction. The timing for this is a little uncertain. But those waiting for major changes to the Studios have become accustomed to second-guessing the timing of things."

reported from disneyatwork.com
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I don't believe it until I see it but those two rides have some of the longest wait times ever and slow moving lines too. They should also find a way to make the Soarin building less of an eyesore.

Is that the space where Monsters, Inc. Door Coaster was going to go?

Also, is the digital ultra-HD projector system still planned to replace the existing dust-ridden cellulose projector?

 

[PeterAlt]

Toy Story Mania expansion?... just no

Give me Monsters Inc, Ratatouille, Up... ANYTHING but more Midway

I agree with you but this is TDO we're talking about...

 

[PeterAlt]

I don't see TSMM being expanded unless it is a simple duplicate with one side dedicated to FP+ and the other for standby but Soarin' has been mentioned more than once in the past and could be done fairly well and nearly all behind the scenes before they every say a word.

As far as other ideas, I wouldn't hold my breath on any of it unless it is formally announced. Right now DIS doesn't seem to be eagerly spending on attractions in WDW, hoping MM+ meets their expectations and will start the flow of capital soon.

You like that fact? I sure don't! Go to DLR and spend your money there, avoid WDW whenever possible until they decide to spend money on attractions there instead. Ten years ago, I boycotted WDW for this very reason. I may encourage another boycott if this keeps up. I have a feeling that big things are planned for 2015, so a I'll wait and see. If 2015 comes and goes and nothing new is announced, I encourage everyone to boycott WDW and go to DLR instead.

 

[PeterAlt]

There seems to be a common argument here: What is the best way to alleviate capacity problems, increase the capacity of an existing ride or build more attractions? Obviously in terms of cost its a no brainer to just expand an existing ride. But what benefit does this have to Disney. Can they start advertising, come to DHS you may now be able to ride TSMM more than once. That would be a great advertisement, no? Do we really think they would be doing it because of guests complaints and overall guests satisfaction, maybe, but I doubt it. So why do it?

I believe the expansion of this ride fits into a long term plan for an overall park expansion. If they were just going to build some new attractions or add on some areas to this park then there would be no reason to increase capacity of TSMM as eventually the new attractions will solve some of the capacity issues with TSMM. But, they are not building new attractions in some remote or new area of the park. They will be closing a significant amount of attractions in order to build new. During this time demand for attractions within this park and other parks will go up (with all the construction some people will steer clear of the park altogether).

Expanding TSMM is not some plan to solve a current capacity problem with the ride it is a plan to solve a future capacity problem that will become increasingly worse once existing attractions are shut down to make room for the construction of new attractions.

I believe this expansion of TSMM is evidence of new attractions on the horizon, so patience, let's wait until 2025 before we put too much judgment on this plan.

No, it's not. It's evidence of TDO doing what they do best. Operations. Cost effective and efficient operations. Allowing TDO to make these decisions is like hiring an accountant for an art project. They are good with the things they're supposed to do (i.e. operations) and the Imagineers are good at what they're supposed to do (engineering attractions) but the Imagineers aren't accountants and the park operators (TDO) aren't Imagineers.

 

[hopemax]

There seems to be a common argument here: What is the best way to alleviate capacity problems, increase the capacity of an existing ride or build more attractions? Obviously in terms of cost its a no brainer to just expand an existing ride. But what benefit does this have to Disney. Can they start advertising, come to DHS you may now be able to ride TSMM more than once. That would be a great advertisement, no? Do we really think they would be doing it because of guests complaints and overall guests satisfaction, maybe, but I doubt it. So why do it?

For me, it's simply a matter of timing. Any large scale addition to the Studios will be at least 5 years away. My family is already to the point that because we can't ride TSMM anymore we don't need to go to the park. My parents are locals, so their decisions are always only a day or two in advance, and with CM tickets there is no FP+ option until they enter the park. By then, finding a time that is before they want to go home is impossible. I can see other locals or short term planners making the same decision. Who would ever buy a ticket for the Studios at the gate, if you aren't sure you can even ride the ride you want, once? Utilization for FP+ should grow, making it even tougher to secure that FP+ than it is now. Adding standby, at least adds back in the possibility that if you get there by rope drop, the wait won't be an hour. And they should be able to get it up and running in 1-2 years (if Transformers took a year, it should be closer to that, but it's Disney, so it won't).

I simply don't think the park can wait 5 years for the something big, before attendance gets wobbly. Frozen gave them a reprieve, but that's all it is. They need to do something more immediate, as well as the bigger addition.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Expanding TSMM is not some plan to solve a current capacity problem with the ride it is a plan to solve a future capacity problem that will become increasingly worse once existing attractions are shut down to make room for the construction of new attractions.

I believe this expansion of TSMM is evidence of new attractions on the horizon, so patience, let's wait until 2025 before we put too much judgment on this plan.

I think you're on to something here. The expansion of TSMM and Soarin also allows them to take down part of the attractions for maintenance if needed, without creating a glutton of crowding problems at another attraction or a slew of complaints at Guest Relations. So, in some way it's kind of a guest satisfaction improvement effort on several levels.

 

[Mawg]

No, it's not. It's evidence of TDO doing what they do best. Operations. Cost effective and efficient operations. Allowing TDO to make these decisions is like hiring an accountant for an art project. They are good with the things they're supposed to do (i.e. operations) and the Imagineers are good at what they're supposed to do (engineering attractions) but the Imagineers aren't accountants and the park operators (TDO) aren't Imagineers.

See I believe that what TDO does best is nothing. And that they would not even consider expanding this attraction if it did not fit into some long term plan. It might be cost effective and might make operations more efficient but they could save more money by not doing it at all. But based on history I can see your argument.

 

[Mawg]

You like that fact? I sure don't! Go to DLR and spend your money there, avoid WDW whenever possible until they decide to spend money on attractions there instead. Ten years ago, I boycotted WDW for this very reason. I may encourage another boycott if this keeps up. I have a feeling that big things are planned for 2015, so a I'll wait and see. If 2015 comes and goes and nothing new is announced, I encourage everyone to boycott WDW and go to DLR instead.

I have hope that 2015 will have some great announcements but I would be happy to boycott with you if it doesn't. Disneyland is closer to me anyways and we always have a great time there.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

TSMM is a fun ride but nothing special. In a park that needs attractions, there is a reason the queue is always full.

 

[Unplugged]

While I see a lot of interesting posts both for and against the addition of capacity, regardless of the true answers as to why TDO may be going this route, we'll never. But there is one simple comparison from a very simple business/cost basis to which I've never seen anyone complain.

Compare adding capacity of a ride to a rock band concert tour. You never hear the artist's press release say "Our concert is in such demand that we're already working on the next tour through your town in another 4 years." Instead you hear "Due to demand, 2 more dates in <your city> have been added, tickets go on sale this weekend."

 

[GrumpyFan]

See I believe that what TDO does best is nothing. And that they would not even consider expanding this attraction if it did not fit into some long term plan. It might be cost effective and might make operations more efficient but they could save more money by not doing it at all. But based on history I can see your argument.

I don't understand why people say stuff like this. TDO has done quite a bit over the last few years. It just seems the people who say this aren't happy because nothing has been added that THEY themselves wanted to see. Do people forget the massive expansion and re-theming that was just completed in Magic Kingdom? Out of which came three new attractions, plus the expansion of another. Sure, I wish more was happening too, and there is much I would like to see done, but to say that what they "do best is nothing", shows pure ignorance and is insulting for what they have done. Open your eyes and get your head out of the sand or where else it might be. By my count, they've done the following since 2013:

1. The Seven Dwarves Mine Coaster - completing New Fantasyland
2. Festival of Fantasy parade
3. Festival of the Lion King - relocation to Africa
4. Morocco - Spice Road Table
5. Princess Fairytale Hall
6. Wilderness Explorers (UP) Interactive game
7. A Pirate's Adventure: Treasure of the Seven Seas
8. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad queue additions
9. Tangled Themed Bathroom Area and path expansion

And, let's not forget the massive addition that's just been rolled out, MagicBand/MyMagic+. I know for many this isn't seen as an addition, but due to its cost and time to implement, it impacted everything budget-wise. Regardless, this project and its cost hardly equate to "nothing", but as you see from the list above they have actually done a few things.

 

[Disfan1971]

Just curious....in TDO terminology, does "rather soon" translate to after the Holiday onslaught of guests? I can't imagine anyone focused on revenue more then show could possibly OK a major change in people eating offerings (Indy & Backlot Exp) anytime prior to the 2nd week of January.

I'm looking for your opinion based on discussion as I know there are no hard facts to be had.

I've been told construction/demolition will begin in under a year.... Now if that's anything like avatar it means don't worry for about 3 more years however if that remains true, in my opinion, based on Disney's recent neglect to guest experience ex. Villians Unleased, sinister soirée, etc in my opinion I think it is possible they will do it before the holidays are over based on those recent events.

 

[BrerJon]

By my count, they've done the following since 2013:

1. The Seven Dwarves Mine Coaster - completing New Fantasyland
2. Festival of Fantasy parade
3. Festival of the Lion King - relocation to Africa
4. Morocco - Spice Road Table
5. Princess Fairytale Hall
6. Wilderness Explorers (UP) Interactive game
7. A Pirate's Adventure: Treasure of the Seven Seas
8. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad queue additions
9. Tangled Themed Bathroom Area and path expansion

It's all such small-fry stuff though, compared to their rivals, and before that there was nothing for ages. For these little things they've added, they've also cut a lot too so on balance you don't get much. Then factor in the enormous rise in ticket prices, and nobody should be congratulating TDO for anything.

We shouldn't applaud them for a new parade when that is part of the job, they should have a new parade every two years anyway. The fact they let the old one stay for so long is a sign of just how stale WDW has become recently.

The one thing I will give them is Disney Springs Mall, as that is a very extensive change, but it's the first thing in years that counts on the scale of the stuff you got in the 90s, when the very least you could expect each year was a major new attraction, most years you got a new park or resort.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

I don't understand why people say stuff like this. TDO has done quite a bit over the last few years. It just seems the people who say this aren't happy because nothing has been added that THEY themselves wanted to see. Do people forget the massive expansion and re-theming that was just completed in Magic Kingdom? Out of which came three new attractions, plus the expansion of another. Sure, I wish more was happening too, and there is much I would like to see done, but to say that what they "do best is nothing", shows pure ignorance and is insulting for what they have done. Open your eyes and get your head out of the sand or where else it might be. By my count, they've done the following since 2013:

1. The Seven Dwarves Mine Coaster - completing New Fantasyland Yes, it expanded the land area of Fantasyland, but in terms of ride capacity, it did little. Dumbo was expanded, but Goofini is just a repackaged Barnstormer, SDMT replaced Snow White's Scary Adventures, and Mermaid (finally) replaced the long closed 20k subs. New Fantasyland could (and should) have been much more: Pixie Hollow, a villains area, another Alice in Wonderland attraction - there are endless possibilities. Instead, we have the same circus tents from Toontown and a handful of C/D rides where the facade is better than the actual attraction.
2. Festival of Fantasy parade A genuinely welcome addition to the park. Perhaps a few quibbles about some of the units (the Mermaid one in particular is lacking) but overall this is a solid addition. No real argument here.
3. Festival of the Lion King - relocation to Africa Done to facilitate the new Avatar land. Did nothing in terms of expanding capacity. Marginal benefit in terms of new theming, but does not bring anything "new" to the park.
4. Morocco - Spice Road Table A new restaurant in a pavilion that certainly did not need another. And it results in the loss of more promenade space and water views. Completely unnecessary and a bad use of resources in a park that desperately needs more attractions, not restaurants.
5. Princess Fairytale Hall A meet and greet, plain and simple, in a space that used to house a ride. I consider this a downgrade. No reason why space could not have been allocated for meet and greets somewhere in NFL.
6. Wilderness Explorers (UP) Interactive game A pleasant but menial addition that does little to improve capacity or address the lack of attractions in AK.
7. A Pirate's Adventure: Treasure of the Seven Seas A mediocre/lousy new attraction that replaced another mediocre/lousy attraction. A disappointment and waste of space in park that needs quality new attractions.
8. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad queue additions A nice little feature, but is really just new theming.
9. Tangled Themed Bathroom Area and path expansion Its a new walkway and a replacement of the cramped and outdated Peter Pan restrooms. Hardly anything groundbreaking. And a missed opportunity to at least incorporate a meet and greet area.

And, let's not forget the massive addition that's just been rolled out, MagicBand/MyMagic+. I know for many this isn't seen as an addition, but due to its cost and time to implement, it impacted everything budget-wise. Regardless, this project and its cost hardly equate to "nothing", but as you see from the list above they have actually done a few things.

And yes, MyMagic+. You're correct, it certainly isn't "nothing" and it has had a major impact on park operations and on guests visiting WDW. This has been discussed ad naseum on these boards so I will just say it has been a polarizing addition to the WDW park experience. Positive to some, negative to others, but a whole lot of money spent on what exactly?

Maybe not do nothing, but they certainly don't do anything that pushes the envelope. And thats what annoys people. Expanding capacity at Soarin' or TSMM is a cop out, the safe route. It just builds on an already successful concept rather than taking the risker (but potentially higher reward) option of building something new. Further explanation of this theory is explained in red in the quote area.