Tour buses collide at EPCOT toll plaza..

Tom

Beta Return
This is NOT a big problem at all. Disney transport operates daily and does so safely. Accidents will and do happen. Disney transport for the most part operates safely on a daily basis.

But there IS a big problem here. The underlying problem of drivers (of any vehicles) continuing to be distracted by....something. It used to just be dogs running across the street or people at crosswalks.

Now, it's cell phones and iPods and texting and GPS devices. The electronic revolution has given drivers more to do OTHER than driving. THIS, is a big problem.

While this specific accident may, by very small chance, have been a freak coincidence, it's more likely the first piece of evidence that Disney (and perhaps law - as much as I hate to suggest the government get involved any more) needs to crack down on "distracted driving".

I don't see this accident as just "a freak accident" - I see it as "just the beginning".
 

Monorail_Orange

Well-Known Member
How did this happen?!? Seriously. Apparently the Charter Bus was "parked" - either illegally in a travel lane, or else had some sort of major mechanical malfunction, so why did the Disney bus smash into the back of it?

Obviously, the Disney bus was moving at a decent clip, seeing the damage done to the front end - 25 mph would be a fair minimum guess - but why?

Visual Impairments?
Another vehicle blocking bus' view until too late to avoid?
Driver Inattention? (texting)
Plain, pure driver error (if charter bus broken down and no hazards flashing) to think the charter bus was still moving? (This scenario really only works if driver staring in rear-view to merge, and only glanced at the obstructing charter bus, and assumed it was moving)
Driver had sudden medical condition, e.g. heart attack or stroke?

It's so strange, given the Disney bus obviously hit the charter bus square-on, not an offset impact as if trying to avoid the collision.

However, regardless of the cause of this particular accident and with all due respect to all of the Disney bus drivers, this is another illustration that it's time for Disney to move on from the buses. Monorail Expansion, WEDWAY PeopleMovers, MAGLEV, whatever else is out there...but it's high time to make real plans to almost completely retire the bus fleet, or seriously reduce its role in WDW Transportation.
 

WDWExplorer

Banned
to be fair.. I should point out that similar bad driving has been observed by myself on non-disney buses on property (not the case here, of course)..

I would liken it to the way Taxis and shuttles drive around and in airports.. They know the routes so well that they get 'used' to driving them.. become complacent, and aren't ready for 'new' things.. such as a giant bus sitting still a quarter mile in front of you, in plain sight..


Disney tries to combat this by moving the drivers to different routes.. but it's really not that helpful in the long run..

Safety has to become second-nature.... if you are constantly thinking about it, you'll be overly-cautious and that could simply put you in a dangerous situation... You have to be able to be 'safe' without thinking about it.. Reactive and proactive both... It's difficult, and demanding.. Thats why not everyone is cut out to drive a bus.. or other large transportation vehicle..


Having said that, I know it's taboo to blame the driver of the Disney bus because he was severely injured... Well... I hope he recovers 100%, however, he has no one to blame but himself (as I am sure he knows).. This accident was VERY avoidable, and VERY preventable.. All it took was a more heads-up driver in the WDW Bus...


I have been on WDW buses hundreds of times, with tons of different drivers.. Some are good, some are so-so, and some of them I wouldn't trust to drive my daughters power-wheels jeep full of marshmallows..

Gotta pay attention, that goes for any driver... ANYWHERE
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Considering the number of buses, the amount of time each on is on the road every day, and the countless trips between parks, resorts and DtD they make, this and the other accidents of late are but a very small percentage. It is unfortunate? Undeniably. Has their been an uptick in known occurences? Yes. But this is neither the beginning of more terrible things to come nor the clarion call for an alternative for of transportation to be introduced.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
How did this happen?!? Seriously. Apparently the Charter Bus was "parked" - either illegally in a travel lane, or else had some sort of major mechanical malfunction, so why did the Disney bus smash into the back of it?

Obviously, the Disney bus was moving at a decent clip, seeing the damage done to the front end - 25 mph would be a fair minimum guess - but why?

Visual Impairments?
Another vehicle blocking bus' view until too late to avoid?
Driver Inattention? (texting)
Plain, pure driver error (if charter bus broken down and no hazards flashing) to think the charter bus was still moving? (This scenario really only works if driver staring in rear-view to merge, and only glanced at the obstructing charter bus, and assumed it was moving)
Driver had sudden medical condition, e.g. heart attack or stroke?

It's so strange, given the Disney bus obviously hit the charter bus square-on, not an offset impact as if trying to avoid the collision.

However, regardless of the cause of this particular accident and with all due respect to all of the Disney bus drivers, this is another illustration that it's time for Disney to move on from the buses. Monorail Expansion, WEDWAY PeopleMovers, MAGLEV, whatever else is out there...but it's high time to make real plans to almost completely retire the bus fleet, or seriously reduce its role in WDW Transportation.

Agreed, there are several simple fixes Disney could make to reduce bus and car traffic. Much safer alternatives are possible. The shear number of busses and cars is a major contributer. It's time for the next generation of transportation at WDW IMO.
 
I have been on WDW buses hundreds of times, with tons of different drivers.. Some are good, some are so-so, and some of them I wouldn't trust to drive my daughters power-wheels jeep full of marshmallows..

Gotta pay attention, that goes for any driver... ANYWHERE

Amen...
Personally, we don't ever ride Disney busses... however, that's because
1. we go so much we know the area like the back of our hands,
2. we hate anymore lines than are absolutely necessary, and
3. hubby's a type A engineer....

36 days and counting!
 

Ziggie

Member
Having said that, I know it's taboo to blame the driver of the Disney bus because he was severely injured... Well... I hope he recovers 100%, however, he has no one to blame but himself (as I am sure he knows).. This accident was VERY avoidable, and VERY preventable.. All it took was a more heads-up driver in the WDW Bus...

I agree with this. I am very sorry he was so badly injured (I heard it took them over 15 minutes to free him from the wreckage), but you can liken the parked bus to a tree, or road sign... it wasn't moving.

But I am not going to place the blame entirely on the driver. No one has said why the parked bus was sitting in a through lane. Also, did he/she put out hazard signs?

If this comes down to him being on a cell phone or texting, I'm going to be angry. I'm anti-cell phones while driving to begin with.
 
Visual Impairments?
Another vehicle blocking bus' view until too late to avoid?
Driver Inattention? (texting)
Plain, pure driver error (if charter bus broken down and no hazards flashing) to think the charter bus was still moving? (This scenario really only works if driver staring in rear-view to merge, and only glanced at the obstructing charter bus, and assumed it was moving)
Driver had sudden medical condition, e.g. heart attack or stroke?

Mechanical failure (i.e. brakes) is always a possibility too. Also air brakes have a tendency to fade as the heat up losing their effectiveness perhaps the driver misjudged the braking distance.

I hate to be Mr. Obvious here... but humans operate these vehicles, and humans are never perfect or infallible.

Ahh but Commercial drivers are expected to be perfect or nearly so. That is why the regulations are much more stringent.
 

brkgnews

Well-Known Member
Has Anyone, Anywhere, heard ANY indication that this driver was texting or using a cellphone? No. So let's let the cops figure it out before everyone presumes that's the cause.

A freaking piano could fall out of the sky and land on top of a bus/train/subway/monorail/bicycle/littleredwagon and the entire world would assume it was because the driver was texting. :rolleyes:

There are numerous plausible explanations of why this wreck happened that do not include 100% fault for the driver. So let's keep our minds open until we find out that most boring of elements in an internet argument: the truth.
 

Tom

Beta Return
Ahh but Commercial drivers are expected to be perfect or nearly so. That is why the regulations are much more stringent.

Perhaps you were being sarcastic, but there is truth to what you say.

There are mistakes that are acceptable, and some that are unacceptable.

Poor maintenance leading to air-brake failure on a city bus = unacceptable. Slamming a bus full of people into the back of a parked bus at 30mph for any reason = unacceptable.

Putting onions on my Whopper after I clearly ask for no onions = acceptable (but I'll shake my fist a lot and run extra Pepsi down the drain!).

Nobody, and nothing, is perfect - but there are still minimum standards that must be met. Not saying this driver was doing it, but texting while operating any form of public transportation is unacceptable - period. In fact, the city of Indianapolis agrees. They passed a law a few months back forbidding our City Bus Drivers from even having their cell phone in their hand while operating their bus. Kudos Indy!
 
No I was being completely serious. Being someone that drives a commercial vehicle but is exempt from needing a commercial license (fire apparatus in the state of PA) I am well aware of the rules of having a commercial license and follow them even though I do not hold one.
 

wdwfan22

Well-Known Member
Agreed, there are several simple fixes Disney could make to reduce bus and car traffic. Much safer alternatives are possible. The shear number of busses and cars is a major contributer. It's time for the next generation of transportation at WDW IMO.

I'm sorry but one accident does not require a need for the next generation of transport.
 

DisneyLeo18

Active Member
With the amount of buses Disney runs on a daily basis, I'm surprised we don't hear this more often. I don't know the numbers but they run a ridiculous amount of buses each day.

I know we all want the drivers to be perfect but in reality they aren't. I know the other bus was parked, but I would be lying if I said I have never come close to hitting a parked car while driving, and I drive a very large SUV. Sometimes it's very hard to stop or maneuver around an unexpected vehicle.

Now if it comes out that the driver was texting/on the phone doing something that he/she shouldn't have? Then yes it was obviously their fault and every one has a reason to be mad. But I have been in two accidents and I can't get mad at some one else for doing the same.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but one accident does not require a need for the next generation of transport.
It is not one accident. The issue is not even if the three or so we have heard about the past year are normal, or even below normal, for a system of this size. Disney is going to have, for some time now, a spotlight focused on its transportation division. At some point, hearing about this over and over is going to make the company look bad, really bad.
 

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but one accident does not require a need for the next generation of transport.

I agree.

The call for next the generation of transport comes from a lack of understanding regarding the reality of how quests move about the property.

In one sense the property is like a city with rush hours. In the morning, you move a large group of people to the parks. In the evening you return them home. Realisticly, that amounts to about 3 horus in the morning and 2 hours at night. It is also a consistent observation of all resorts and parks for those time periods. Rail based vehicles would work but the wait times would increase because you can't easily increase the number of trains on a certain route.

The bigger problem, however, is that mini rush hours pop up at resorts and parks unpredictably during the day. Rail is not flexible enough to handle these situations even with their increased capacity.

In addition, if rail were instituted, there would be one stop at each resort out of both financial and operational concerns. People would certianly hate that. It is also likely that one train would not just service one resort but would serve several. Imagine the train that leaves Magic Kingdom serving WIlderness Lodge, Fort WIlderness, Port Orleans Riverside and French Quarter, Old Key West , Saratoga Springs and Downtown Disney. That could be quite a trip for a guest who just wants to get home at Saratoga Springs. Not to mention, once they arrive at the resort, in order to get to their section, they would then either walk or take an internal bus making several stops to get clsoer to their rooms.

Busses provide a flexible, cost effective solution to the realities of moving the people around the property. It may not be the most magical but there is no magic in hiking half a mile to your resort with a couple of sleepy toddlers in tow.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I agree.

The call for next the generation of transport comes from a lack of understanding regarding the reality of how quests move about the property.

In one sense the property is like a city with rush hours. In the morning, you move a large group of people to the parks. In the evening you return them home. Realisticly, that amounts to about 3 horus in the morning and 2 hours at night. It is also a consistent observation of all resorts and parks for those time periods. Rail based vehicles would work but the wait times would increase because you can't easily increase the number of trains on a certain route.

The bigger problem, however, is that mini rush hours pop up at resorts and parks unpredictably during the day. Rail is not flexible enough to handle these situations even with their increased capacity.

In addition, if rail were instituted, there would be one stop at each resort out of both financial and operational concerns. People would certianly hate that. It is also likely that one train would not just service one resort but would serve several. Imagine the train that leaves Magic Kingdom serving WIlderness Lodge, Fort WIlderness, Port Orleans Riverside and French Quarter, Old Key West , Saratoga Springs and Downtown Disney. That could be quite a trip for a guest who just wants to get home at Saratoga Springs. Not to mention, once they arrive at the resort, in order to get to their section, they would then either walk or take an internal bus making several stops to get clsoer to their rooms.

Busses provide a flexible, cost effective solution to the realities of moving the people around the property. It may not be the most magical but there is no magic in hiking half a mile to your resort with a couple of sleepy toddlers in tow.
How dare you bring logic, reason and facts to a Disney transportation thread. :lol:
 

Ziggie

Member
Has Anyone, Anywhere, heard ANY indication that this driver was texting or using a cellphone? No. So let's let the cops figure it out before everyone presumes that's the cause.

A freaking piano could fall out of the sky and land on top of a bus/train/subway/monorail/bicycle/littleredwagon and the entire world would assume it was because the driver was texting. :rolleyes:

There are numerous plausible explanations of why this wreck happened that do not include 100% fault for the driver. So let's keep our minds open until we find out that most boring of elements in an internet argument: the truth.

What are you, thread monitor? Telling people how they should think? No one ever said he definitely was texting/using a cellphone. But, as humans are apt to do, we can *speculate* as to what we think might have been going on. He could also have had a stroke. Any number of things could've taken place.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
What are you, thread monitor? Telling people how they should think? No one ever said he definitely was texting/using a cellphone. But, as humans are apt to do, we can *speculate* as to what we think might have been going on. He could also have had a stroke. Any number of things could've taken place.

I believe he was giving the driver the presumption of innocence in this thread, not telling anyone to neither think nor speculate.....
 

brkgnews

Well-Known Member
I believe he was giving the driver the presumption of innocence in this thread, not telling anyone to neither think nor speculate.....
Yes. Thank you. I don't mind speculation based on evidence that is seen. It's the automatic "bus crashed... must have been a cell phone" that I don't like. Same thing happened in the early bit of the monorail crash speculation.

(Although, "Thread Monitor" does sound like a wonderful title to have under my username :lookaroun)
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom