Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Just bustin ya chops Ghostbuster626...
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Timekeeper AND Carousel closing?
- Thread starter PintoColvig
- Start date
Ghostbuster626 said:
OK, you go on the ride "once in a while" and see a half full theater so that means most people hate it? Based on this rationale, American Adventure and Hall of Presidents should be closed because there are plenty of half-capacity showings at both of these attractions. Sorry but unless you are a CM at CoP, you are not in a position to judge its popularity based on your occassional visits.
Also, you see kids "always talking and getting antsy while the ride is in progress" so you assume all kids don't like it. Let me ask, "How old are you?" Are you a teen? A college student? Surely you are not a parent. Admittedly, I'm a late thirties Disney geek (why else would I waste so much time responding to this idiocy?) but I'm also a parent. Just so you know, most kids are always talking and often get antsy in theater presentations. But that doesn't mean that kids do not or cannot enjoy or appreciate something like CoP. My 5 year old loves the ride. My three year old (yes, he was the one talking and getting antsy) asked to ride it again! And, I've got a question: Who's forcing your sister to ride CoP? Surely not you. So it must be your parents who must really like CoP or they would want to skip it just like you. :kiss:
You see several members of the audience fall asleep during the show so I assume you think most people find it boring. Man, people fall asleep in theater presentations all over Disney World. Heck, I've done it! That doesn't necessarily mean that the presentation is boring. It may simply mean that the person is tired and that the presentation isn't overly loud.
You say it is "a dated attraction". Yes, the final scene is occassionally out dated and subsequently needs to be retooled to make it contemporary. But that doesn't mean the whole attraction is dated. Could the audioanimatronics be more state-of-the-art? Of course. But rather than destroy the whole show, Disney could simply rework the mechanics of the show.
As to your last question--"Why should CoP be left open open?"--I think I've already answered that in my previous post. But, let me give you one more reason. CoP was Walt's absolute favorite attraction and he always wanted it in the parks for the rest of their operation. So, out of respect for The Man, CoP needs to keep on keepin' on! :king:
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Nice post. I don't totally agree with your idea that CoP HAS to be saved, but I admire your style. You don't opine based only on your wants and experience, but take into account other factors. Thanks! :wave:icorsix said:OK, you go on the ride "once in a while" and see a half full theater so that means most people hate it? Based on this rationale, American Adventure and Hall of Presidents should be closed because there are plenty of half-capacity showings at both of these attractions. Sorry but unless you are a CM at CoP, you are not in a position to judge its popularity based on your occassional visits.
Also, you see kids "always talking and getting antsy while the ride is in progress" so you assume all kids don't like it. Let me ask, "How old are you?" Are you a teen? A college student? Surely you are not a parent. Admittedly, I'm a late thirties Disney geek (why else would I waste so much time responding to this idiocy?) but I'm also a parent. Just so you know, most kids are always talking and often get antsy in theater presentations. But that doesn't mean that kids do not or cannot enjoy or appreciate something like CoP. My 5 year old loves the ride. My three year old (yes, he was the one talking and getting antsy) asked to ride it again! And, I've got a question: Who's forcing your sister to ride CoP? Surely not you. So it must be your parents who must really like CoP or they would want to skip it just like you. :kiss:
You see several members of the audience fall asleep during the show so I assume you think most people find it boring. Man, people fall asleep in theater presentations all over Disney World. Heck, I've done it! That doesn't necessarily mean that the presentation is boring. It may simply mean that the person is tired and that the presentation isn't overly loud.
You say it is "a dated attraction". Yes, the final scene is occassionally out dated and subsequently needs to be retooled to make it contemporary. But that doesn't mean the whole attraction is dated. Could the audioanimatronics be more state-of-the-art? Of course. But rather than destroy the whole show, Disney could simply rework the mechanics of the show.
As to your last question--"Why should CoP be left open open?"--I think I've already answered that in my previous post. But, let me give you one more reason. CoP was Walt's absolute favorite attraction and he always wanted it in the parks for the rest of their operation. So, out of respect for The Man, CoP needs to keep on keepin' on! :king:
Just an aside... I tend to remember that several insiders have said that "Walt wanting CoP to always be in the parks and never replaced" was only an urban legend.
OliveMcFly
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why some don't care that they are taking Walt's vision and throwing it out the window. We don't have much of his original ideas left and I think COP is something that needs to be preserved.
nibblesandbits
Well-Known Member
Can I just tell you that on my trip last May, I took my fiance and I wanted to ride COP b/c I had never ridden it before and heard about it on the boards. This brings me to my first point. Disney does not really advertise this ride, so most of the people who do end up riding it are either fans of the ride or people who find out the ride is there and decide to go on it. Hence one good reason why there are some people on it, but not all full theaters.Ghostbuster626 said:
Anyway...back to my point.
We decided to go on it and my fiance who is NOT the Disney fan that I am absolutely LOVED the ride. He thought it was one of the best things on property. This is from a guy who was only going to Disney with me because he knew I loved it. (I actually loved the ride too, but apparently not as much as him! :lol: )
So when we went back in January of this year, you know what ride he couldn't wait to go on? COP. Matter of fact, we went on it twice just because we liked it.
So you see, not every average guest hates this ride. My fiance sings Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow quite frequently. (Matter of fact, he sang it last night before he went to bed!) COP is still a great attraction, that sure, needs updating, but it's the message gets accross that's what matters. And as you can see, that message is still getting across.
OliveMcFly
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for posting that. The first time I took my little cousin on it she was 7 and she loved it. She kept asking if the dog was real...in every scene...lol. I think to be a true of COP you need to look beyond a bunch of AAs. You need to understand where this came from and what it meant to Walt. That's the most important thing...Walt!
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
There are reasons the CoP does not attract full crowds...It is in an unattractive and not eye-catching building that along with half of tomorrowland never got the mid 90s makeover. It is also not sponsored, and does not have major signage or advertising. A new theater is avaialabe every four minutes, it can hold over 200 people, no duh there isn't usually a line because Disney doesn't capitalize on the only walt disney original at walt disney world, and won't give the ride a substantail show change.
The current 1994, and I have said it before is very dry. It lacks the creativity and music that the 1964, 67, 75, and 83 versions all had. I wish the kaleidophonic screens were still there! :zipit:
The reason the CoP left Disneyland was due to a few things. First off, it's sponsor General Electric, wanted the CoP to fit in with their new slogan "we bring good things to life". Also WDW was getting the first space mountain, and they (GE) and WDI felt that the ride would compliment space mountain for an alternative to the thrill ride, and would help finish tomorrowland with space mtn, rocket jets, and the peoplemover by 1975.
Though the CoP was originally supposed to remain at Disneyland for ever, there were too many benefits that the CoP would recieve on the East Coast that made the move possible. It wasn't Disneyland trash, it was done to make the ride nestled into a better "home"! :brick:
I really don't understand how a bunch of singing birds and other animals gives a message of progress in tomorrowland, so somehow I think america sings closing was proper.
The CoP is a true exception. I don't mind if it moves or not, but there is no reason why a true walt disney made ride must be destroyed when it can be plussed and better advertised.
The current 1994, and I have said it before is very dry. It lacks the creativity and music that the 1964, 67, 75, and 83 versions all had. I wish the kaleidophonic screens were still there! :zipit:
The reason the CoP left Disneyland was due to a few things. First off, it's sponsor General Electric, wanted the CoP to fit in with their new slogan "we bring good things to life". Also WDW was getting the first space mountain, and they (GE) and WDI felt that the ride would compliment space mountain for an alternative to the thrill ride, and would help finish tomorrowland with space mtn, rocket jets, and the peoplemover by 1975.
Though the CoP was originally supposed to remain at Disneyland for ever, there were too many benefits that the CoP would recieve on the East Coast that made the move possible. It wasn't Disneyland trash, it was done to make the ride nestled into a better "home"! :brick:
I really don't understand how a bunch of singing birds and other animals gives a message of progress in tomorrowland, so somehow I think america sings closing was proper.
The CoP is a true exception. I don't mind if it moves or not, but there is no reason why a true walt disney made ride must be destroyed when it can be plussed and better advertised.
An interesting thread, to say the least.
I like the idea of moving CoP to the Timekeeper building, have it be the transition between Main Street and Tomorrowland. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense - that's what Walt wanted between lands, a smooth, nearly seamless transition. Honestly, if Disney wanted to close CoP, they would have done so years ago, before investing any time or money in it like they have lately.
I agree with Ghostbuster626 on most of the attractions in the past 10 years, although I like a couple of them more than he does. Besides, Pooh takes away guests from other things that I want to ride. 
(Yeah, my kids love it, so we do it with them.... what can I say?)
I like the idea of moving CoP to the Timekeeper building, have it be the transition between Main Street and Tomorrowland. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense - that's what Walt wanted between lands, a smooth, nearly seamless transition. Honestly, if Disney wanted to close CoP, they would have done so years ago, before investing any time or money in it like they have lately.
I agree with Ghostbuster626 on most of the attractions in the past 10 years, although I like a couple of them more than he does.
Besides, Pooh takes away guests from other things that I want to ride. (Yeah, my kids love it, so we do it with them.... what can I say?)
AngryEyes
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else's children, but my 12 and 7 year olds love CoP. My 4-year old starts asking when it's gonna be over 30 seconds in, but he does that with every movie or show except for Philharmagic. So, believe it or not, there are children out there who love this ride. Actually, it's probably in my 12-year old's top 7 at WDW.
wannab@dis said:
Thanks for the compliment! :wave:
I am certainly not a purist and haven't always held such a strong belief about CoP's preservation. But the more I've thought about it, the more I realize the uniqueness of this one WDW attraction. DL has several attractions that Walt was heavily involved in. WDW has only one: CoP. Sentimental? Absolutely.
As for the urban legend thing, that is something I haven't heard before. Most seem to believe it to be true including one of my favorite websites, disneyworldtrivia.com (Specifically, check out this link to their site: http://www.disneyworldtrivia.com/trivia/mk/tomorrowland/carousel.php)
Let me get one more thing off my chest regarding this larger issue of CoP's place...
The problem many of us face today is our insensitivity to subtlety. So many of the highly touted attractions are loud, fast, exciting, etc. But, it is the subtle C and D attractions that I feel makes WDW and DL so unique. It's like Disney's E-Tickets are steak and the C- and D-tickets are vegetables. The steak can be good but the meal is far more enjoyable when there are good vegetables to go along with it. If Ghostbuster and others like him had their way, WDW would have lots of cutting edge thrills and experiences (steak) but the total experience would not be as satisfying.
Like the CoP, there are so many of the subtle attractions that more readily appeal to the intellect. That is why I mourn (not much, mind you) over the loss of some of Epcot's initial Futureworld attractions. Horizons and World of Motion didn't offer E-ticket thrills but they certainly engaged even my teenage mind and I rode them over and over. Sadly, we have been so affected by thrill mentality that subtle yet engaging attractions such as CoP are threatened or so I believe.
We must never forget what initially inspired Walt to build DL: He wanted a place where families could have fun together. People with a wide range of ages frequent WDW. It takes a wide range of attractions subtle and not so subtle to entertain them all. Those attractions (like CoP!) that accommodate the widest demographic are probably the most valuable to me.
Well, I go on way too much. It's cathartic for me, I suppose. Thank you all for hearing me out, even Ghostbuster!
nibblesandbits
Well-Known Member
wow...that post was right on the money! And nice steak and veggies analogy! :lol: It was definitely fitting.icorsix said:Thanks for the compliment! :wave:
I am certainly not a purist and haven't always held such a strong belief about CoP's preservation. But the more I've thought about it, the more I realize the uniqueness of this one WDW attraction. DL has several attractions that Walt was heavily involved in. WDW has only one: CoP. Sentimental? Absolutely.
As for the urban legend thing, that is something I haven't heard before. Most seem to believe it to be true including one of my favorite websites, disneyworldtrivia.com (Specifically, check out this link to their site: http://www.disneyworldtrivia.com/trivia/mk/tomorrowland/carousel.php)
Let me get one more thing off my chest regarding this larger issue of CoP's place...
The problem many of us face today is our insensitivity to subtlety. So many of the highly touted attractions are loud, fast, exciting, etc. But, it is the subtle C and D attractions that I feel makes WDW and DL so unique. It's like Disney's E-Tickets are steak and the C- and D-tickets are vegetables. The steak can be good but the meal is far more enjoyable when there are good vegetables to go along with it. If Ghostbuster and others like him had their way, WDW would have lots of cutting edge thrills and experiences (steak) but the total experience would not be as satisfying.
Like the CoP, there are so many of the subtle attractions that more readily appeal to the intellect. That is why I mourn (not much, mind you) over the loss of some of Epcot's initial Futureworld attractions. Horizons and World of Motion didn't offer E-ticket thrills but they certainly engaged even my teenage mind and I rode them over and over. Sadly, we have been so affected by thrill mentality that subtle yet engaging attractions such as CoP are threatened or so I believe.
We must never forget what initially inspired Walt to build DL: He wanted a place where families could have fun together. People with a wide range of ages frequent WDW. It takes a wide range of attractions subtle and not so subtle to entertain them all. Those attractions (like CoP!) that accommodate the widest demographic are probably the most valuable to me.
Well, I go on way too much. It's cathartic for me, I suppose. Thank you all for hearing me out, even Ghostbuster!
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Another good post. :lol:icorsix said:Thanks for the compliment! :wave:
I am certainly not a purist and haven't always held such a strong belief about CoP's preservation. But the more I've thought about it, the more I realize the uniqueness of this one WDW attraction. DL has several attractions that Walt was heavily involved in. WDW has only one: CoP. Sentimental? Absolutely.
As for the urban legend thing, that is something I haven't heard before. Most seem to believe it to be true including one of my favorite websites, disneyworldtrivia.com (Specifically, check out this link to their site: http://www.disneyworldtrivia.com/trivia/mk/tomorrowland/carousel.php)
Let me get one more thing off my chest regarding this larger issue of CoP's place...
The problem many of us face today is our insensitivity to subtlety. So many of the highly touted attractions are loud, fast, exciting, etc. But, it is the subtle C and D attractions that I feel makes WDW and DL so unique. It's like Disney's E-Tickets are steak and the C- and D-tickets are vegetables. The steak can be good but the meal is far more enjoyable when there are good vegetables to go along with it. If Ghostbuster and others like him had their way, WDW would have lots of cutting edge thrills and experiences (steak) but the total experience would not be as satisfying.
Like the CoP, there are so many of the subtle attractions that more readily appeal to the intellect. That is why I mourn (not much, mind you) over the loss of some of Epcot's initial Futureworld attractions. Horizons and World of Motion didn't offer E-ticket thrills but they certainly engaged even my teenage mind and I rode them over and over. Sadly, we have been so affected by thrill mentality that subtle yet engaging attractions such as CoP are threatened or so I believe.
We must never forget what initially inspired Walt to build DL: He wanted a place where families could have fun together. People with a wide range of ages frequent WDW. It takes a wide range of attractions subtle and not so subtle to entertain them all. Those attractions (like CoP!) that accommodate the widest demographic are probably the most valuable to me.
Well, I go on way too much. It's cathartic for me, I suppose. Thank you all for hearing me out, even Ghostbuster!
I agree 100% about the mixture of attractions and would go a step further. It bothers me that so many people complain about the small attractions. Our trip this past December was my 2 year old's first trip. She was in love with the Carousel, all the spinners, the playgrounds, and many of the dark rides. Her favorite thing was meeting the characters. It took a couple of days to warm up to them, but, wow, she absolutely loved seeing a character out and running up to them with her autograph book.
I wish some would stop, step back, and look at the children around them at WDW. They don't worry about the flecks of paint, they don't care if a ride is super creative, they don't care if it has Pixar or a movie tie-in. They care only about having fun. That's why I'm still a kid at heart. I had as much fun sitting with my little girl on Alladin as I did taking a quick drop on ToT. In fact, I'd say I had a bigger "thrill" watching her jumping up and down in line fixing to get into the magic carpet.
[/sappy]
Now, I think you can understand why I'm not going to get upset if CoP goes away. For me, it's more than the individual attraction, it's the experience that I have while at the world. So far, over the past 10 years, my experience has improved with every visit!
wannab@dis said:
Well put! :king:
On our last trip in Dec., we chose not to do anything that both my children could not also do. So, we missed Space Mtn., M:S, RRC, ToT, and Primeval Whirl because of height restrictions and we missed SGE, Dinosaur, and Tough to be a Bug because of the scary factor and we missed CoP because it was seasonal
. But, it turned out to be one of the most enjoyable trips we've ever had because we had so much fun together as a family. My 3 yr. old finally warmed up to the characters on that trip, too. What a blast!
Imaginationeer
New Member
I would love to see you continue, but Could also go back more than 10 years and show you some great stuff from the Eisner Era.Ghostbuster626 said:
Brian_B
Member
Can I be the one to say "THANK GOD"?
No offense to you hardcore timekeeper fans out there, but circlevision was a dated attraction even during the 1970s when it originally opened. It's very boring, and they won't even let you sit down on the floor. That is prime tomorrowland real estate and I think it deserves at least a D-ticket attraction. Timekeeper was a fine upgrade, but the time has come for something new.
In fact, while we're on the subject, I'm of the mind that out of all of MK, TL needs help the most. It's covered in bird doody, and nearly all of the attractions are either in desparate need of repair/refurbishment (space mountain, wedway), never functional and need replacing (timekeeper and the TL stage), or horrendous wastes from the beginning (indy speedway). I think Buzz Lightyear was great addition, but the queue needs to be expanded because a crowd tends to form outside.
Alien Encounter was superb because it was ORIGINAL and had NO TIES TO CHARACTERS - and I know this topic has been done to death, but it's true. I lament the loss of originality. That being said, despite the weakness of the stich attraction, I'm happy there's at least something new and not broken down in there right now. So for now we can leave it at that.
Space mtn: It needs to be completely refurbished: a brand new paintjob, queue repair, the works. The original level of darkness also needs to be restored, and the post-show needs to be completely reworked, because well, it's terrible. Where's the story?
CoP - if it has to go, it has to go. May it be replaced with something walt would have been proud of. There is no sense in stopping progress - that was the theme of the CoP anyway.
If they do ANYTHING to the Wedway peoplemover (I refuse to call it anything else, sorry) I am never going back to WDW. period.
- Brian
No offense to you hardcore timekeeper fans out there, but circlevision was a dated attraction even during the 1970s when it originally opened. It's very boring, and they won't even let you sit down on the floor. That is prime tomorrowland real estate and I think it deserves at least a D-ticket attraction. Timekeeper was a fine upgrade, but the time has come for something new.
In fact, while we're on the subject, I'm of the mind that out of all of MK, TL needs help the most. It's covered in bird doody, and nearly all of the attractions are either in desparate need of repair/refurbishment (space mountain, wedway), never functional and need replacing (timekeeper and the TL stage), or horrendous wastes from the beginning (indy speedway). I think Buzz Lightyear was great addition, but the queue needs to be expanded because a crowd tends to form outside.
Alien Encounter was superb because it was ORIGINAL and had NO TIES TO CHARACTERS - and I know this topic has been done to death, but it's true. I lament the loss of originality. That being said, despite the weakness of the stich attraction, I'm happy there's at least something new and not broken down in there right now. So for now we can leave it at that.
Space mtn: It needs to be completely refurbished: a brand new paintjob, queue repair, the works. The original level of darkness also needs to be restored, and the post-show needs to be completely reworked, because well, it's terrible. Where's the story?
CoP - if it has to go, it has to go. May it be replaced with something walt would have been proud of. There is no sense in stopping progress - that was the theme of the CoP anyway.
If they do ANYTHING to the Wedway peoplemover (I refuse to call it anything else, sorry) I am never going back to WDW. period.
- Brian
Brian_B said:
No consistency here, Brian. Nor is this consistent with your Public Profile which states that your favorite attraction is "everything they've ever gotten rid of".
Jorma
New Member
icorsix said:OK, you go on the ride "once in a while" and see a half full theater so that means most people hate it? Based on this rationale, American Adventure and Hall of Presidents should be closed because there are plenty of half-capacity showings at both of these attractions. Sorry but unless you are a CM at CoP, you are not in a position to judge its popularity based on your occassional visits.
Also, you see kids "always talking and getting antsy while the ride is in progress" so you assume all kids don't like it. Let me ask, "How old are you?" Are you a teen? A college student? Surely you are not a parent. Admittedly, I'm a late thirties Disney geek (why else would I waste so much time responding to this idiocy?) but I'm also a parent. Just so you know, most kids are always talking and often get antsy in theater presentations. But that doesn't mean that kids do not or cannot enjoy or appreciate something like CoP. My 5 year old loves the ride. My three year old (yes, he was the one talking and getting antsy) asked to ride it again! And, I've got a question: Who's forcing your sister to ride CoP? Surely not you. So it must be your parents who must really like CoP or they would want to skip it just like you. :kiss:
You see several members of the audience fall asleep during the show so I assume you think most people find it boring. Man, people fall asleep in theater presentations all over Disney World. Heck, I've done it! That doesn't necessarily mean that the presentation is boring. It may simply mean that the person is tired and that the presentation isn't overly loud.
You say it is "a dated attraction". Yes, the final scene is occassionally out dated and subsequently needs to be retooled to make it contemporary. But that doesn't mean the whole attraction is dated. Could the audioanimatronics be more state-of-the-art? Of course. But rather than destroy the whole show, Disney could simply rework the mechanics of the show.
As to your last question--"Why should CoP be left open open?"--I think I've already answered that in my previous post. But, let me give you one more reason. CoP was Walt's absolute favorite attraction and he always wanted it in the parks for the rest of their operation. So, out of respect for The Man, CoP needs to keep on keepin' on! :king:
Great post! And lets hear it for the late 30's Disney geeks! :sohappy:
Tim G
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't count on it, if I were you...wannab@dis said:
Many, many months ago I discussed this whole thing with Grizz... (and other for that matter) announcing this would happen... and IMO that time has come... let's say goodbye to C.O.P. and create something new...
Although there are people around who will dissagree, but C.O.P. has been low in attendance (that is to say) too low for comfort, (I've seen the figures) and not to speak of the ride itself. There's too much dust, It's too scruffy... If you could look ON and BEHIND the stage... the thing is falling apart.... It's not worth the money maintenance, the whole thing isn't even worthy to call a "Disney attraction"
(oops!!! I've done it now!)
One can't keep it just because it was "Walt's Baby"
20.000K was Walt's baby as well, and that was taken down...
And the same will happen with C.O.P.
The only problem there's left is the ride above it... but there ARE ways to preserve Tomorrowland Transit Authority, with a "work a way"
CaptainMichael
Well-Known Member
I think he's been in a foul mood.dxwwf3 said:
