News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress

HonorableMention

Well-Known Member
A couple notes and addendums to my initial review after viewing some POVs and further rumination:

I was originally displeased with the lull section between the 2nd critter band scene and the scene before the dip drop for being too empty compared to Splash, but I'm beginning to realize this is supposed to be an intentional "low moment" in the narrative before the shrinking scene. The primary thing that suggests this is the lower-tempo audio loop next to the wooden shack. I think this actually a good spot to put a short atmospheric section (Splash did this as well) but I'm not sure it's the best execution. In this spot, my eye was instinctively drawn to the Tiana animatronic further down the flume as it's delivering dialogue to the boat ahead. The audio bleed from that dialogue stole my attention and I missed the ambient audio cue. Something more than the wooden shack to draw the eye to the left side of the track would do greatly for this scene. Just after the segment of Tiana sitting on the stump and Louis looking in the log, we see some stationary figures of the frogs before the Mama Odie screen and dip drop. I know the frogs are there to kind of foreshadow the next scene, but I think they would be better utilized just after the wooden shack in the ambient section. I overlooked the static figures there on my first ride because they were competing for attention with Mama Odie, but putting them just after the shack would allow the Tiana and Louis figures to move further back into their scene and create a better flowing sightline in my opinion. This is all sounding very nitpicky though.

The section between the first and second bands is meant to be a small "scene" where we follow the line of fireflies. There is an effect of fireflies flowing in a line depicted on the leafy canopy ceiling with fiber-optic lights. This is a really great effect, but the scene also suffers in execution because it competes with the screen at the far wall; which is more likely to grab your attention and leave the sides of the boat feeling rather empty. It would have been nice to see this fiber-optic effect on the sides of the flume, and maybe even have it weave around some additional critters. Again, a bit nitpicky.

Regarding audio, I'm now aware that several characters have variations on their dialogue to make audio bleed issues less awkward. This isn't something I picked up on during my first ride, but it's a nice touch nonetheless.

I do not understand the criticism from many that the plot of the ride is complicated or hard to understand. I understand why some might find the queue backstory hard to grasp (while I personally disagree) but the on-ride plot is incredibly simple and easy to follow. The first lift hill Tiana blatantly states she is looking for musicians to play at her party, and Louis in the garden does the same. Before the former slippin' falls drop an audio cue of Mama Odie states we can find the musicians in the bayou. Then, each following appearance of Tiana and Louis reiterate that the musicians they find will be joining them at the party. I can see why the shrinking dialogue from Mama Odie might be hard to hear and understand, but this is immediately followed by visuals of a giant bottle, key, and frog to suggest we shrunk. Then Mama Odie explains she will grow us again so we can make it to the party, all while the vehicle is stopped at the bottom of the main lift hill. Her animatronic at the top of the lift reiterates we're going to the party, and then after the drop we actually go there, completing the plot. If anything, I think the dialogue is heavy-handed and feels somewhat childish, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Clearly the dialogue wasn't dumbed down enough for some!

Even though on the whole I prefer Splash Mountain as an attraction, I think it's disingenuous and in bad-faith to call Tiana's Bayou Adventure "soulless" as many have jumped to claim. While the direct plot of the ride is very simple to appeal to younger demographics, there is a surprising amount of subtext here. The attraction feels like a love letter to New Orleans and Louisiana as a whole. The different critter bands playing different styles of music pioneered by African-American artists represents bringing different people in a community together to create something no single person could have created themselves. This parallels the inception of jazz music, which many consider to be the heart and soul of New Orleans. The original song Special Spice also draws this as a parallel to New Orleans cuisine (also considered the city's heart and soul) which uses an eclectic array of ingredients to create its unique flavor. The ride is showing the creative intersection between the culinary and musical arts in a city prolific for both. It drives home that creating something alongside others will result in something none of the parties involved would have ever created on their own. Many are quick to say this ride feels like it was designed by committee, but it seems clear to me that was deliberately the intention. Whether or not one prefers that approach is entirely subject to opinion, but it's not devoid of character or clever design.
I really like this analysis, and as I watch more POVs I’m coming around to the ride more.

I don’t think the ride is soulless, if anything the thing that upsets me is how much potential there is that wasn’t fully realized. All those concepts you mentioned of bringing together community while also showing off cultural authenticity are ingredients for a great ride. The bones are there, it’s just some of the execution that leaves me disappointed.

I really hope Disney takes the feedback and makes some small tweaks like they did to Mermaid
 

IMDREW

Well-Known Member
Okay, it's definitely fixable.

When we meet Tiana on the log, make her say something in the likes of 'don't get lost in the bayou' or 'watch out for ... in the bayou'. Then swap Mama Odie screen for dr. Facilier. Make him shrink us down like what happens in de movie. Laughing Place becomes a danger scene with some shadow projections. Then have fireflies light the way 'follow us!', second drop into the beauty of being small. Frogs, mushrooms etc. Audio Louis finds us 'there you are!'. Then have Mama Odie appear like the first design (love the first screen with the bottles surrounding that branch arch, hate that second screen with juju). Fill the WHOLE lift hill with bottles please and thank you, idk why there are so few atm. Then we meet her in AA form on the left while singing dig a little deeper and we plunge.

Quick and easy fixes for a more entertaining ride imo.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
The way TWDC funds things really confuses me when you look at their different businesses.

In their movie business Disney has no problem burning through hundreds of millions of dollars with consistently NO ROI, or at the very least, the need to wait decades for a given movie to "be profitable" on paper.

In their theme park business, it seems they look at every penny, and will change, reduce, cut projects as standard operating procedure.

I am sure there were cost cuts made in Tiana.

Having said that, Tiana looks fine and I will ride it if the line is not too long.
Yeah I don't know if it's just different standards for different industries or if they were really hoping to go all-in on movies and digital content. Probably a bit of both. Streaming was definitely a huge focus for awhile there.

I do think that the next couple of decades will bring some really cool changes to the parks. The majority of their earnings come from the parks now. Lightning Lanes build in a motivation to build rides that are really unique and special. There's the whole Epic Universe thing. Movies I am not as hopeful for, but I think we'll see some awesome additions to the parks.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I'd also be curious if they could actually build a clone of something like Pirates in this day and age. They did so successfully in the early 90s with Paris. That version also had noticeable motion improvements to the entire animatronics population. In terms of set design, I think Disney MIGHT be capable of replicating it. Modern WDI are probably better suited to creating realistic scenery than something like an animated film, something I have noted as a complaint with TBA as its scenery looks too realistic IMO. It's the large AA population that always throws a wrench into everything.

As I said prior, Disney needs to rediscover the concept of "moderate" AA's to help fill out their scenes. Not have everything be either state of the art with hundreds of axes, or simple department store caliber moving props that repeat the same canned animation over and over again. POTC had a couple of figures that were state of the art at the time (Auctioneer and Blackbeard), but most of the others had more of a moderate design. Less advanced than those couple, but with enough dynamic motion of their own that they could still comfortably stand right next to the elaborate ones and still be a natural fit. Many could still talk or at least move in sync with a source of audio, and felt alive and natural instead of just repeating the same stock single motion over and over. Hall of Presidents is another great example of this moderation, with three high end AA's and the remainder being less advanced designs that can still move with a decent range of their own to make them feel alive and natural. In contrast, TBA has about a dozen figures with a good range of motion, but the remainder are all considerably worse than a ton of the figures in its predecessor. But even judged on its own, they also look especially awkward and stiff when positioned right next to the advanced Tiana and Louis figures.

Haunted Mansion seems far more possible for WDI to create a clone of these days given its seemingly smaller AA population. Most of which are relatively far away from the vehicle, rendering excessive movements of A1000s or even A100s completely unnecessary. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to screw it up. Especially since they seem hell-bent on screwing the existing classic Mansions up already.
So Google tells me there are 109 animatronics in the Haunted Mansion - presumably all or almost all of them are large, full sized people. Ghost people - but size wise the same. Googles says 120 for Pirates - presumably almost all of those are full sized people as well, plus a handful of animals. I don't see an official count for Tiana but from what I can surmise it's somewhere under 30. So I mean think about that - those older rides likely have about 4 times the animatronics of Tiana!

I think that's why the older rides look so "filled in" while it's really hard to get past the "driving by department store windows" effect on the new ones. I actually think Tiana did a pretty good job with what they had - they wrap the scenery around much more completely than Frozen or Little Mermaid, and I actually like the modest use of screens to add in a few extra elements. But imagine if they had legit 120 animatronics on that ride, plus the budget for background scenery.

I agree with you that more moderately priced animatronics probably need to be a focus. In some rides, like FoP or Rise or GotG, there is a big payoff (in terms of rider experience) with all the new technology. For animatronics - I mean super fans love them and they do look a bit better than lower tech ones - but do they add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coolness to the experience, when compared to a less costly version? I really don't think so.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't know if it's just different standards for different industries or if they were really hoping to go all-in on movies and digital content. Probably a bit of both. Streaming was definitely a huge focus for awhile there.

I do think that the next couple of decades will bring some really cool changes to the parks. The majority of their earnings come from the parks now. Lightning Lanes build in a motivation to build rides that are really unique and special. There's the whole Epic Universe thing. Movies I am not as hopeful for, but I think we'll see some awesome additions to the parks.
I'm very curious to see how Inside Out 2 is. I loved the first movie and the trailers make this one look like it SHOULD have the goods. If, for some reason, it ends up terrible, I'll be VERY concerned for the future over at Pixar.

Hoping for the best. And I do think, if it does well, we are likely to end up with some Inside Out at Epcot. They're desperate for new, hit films.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I'm very curious to see how Inside Out 2 is. I loved the first movie and the trailers make this one look like it SHOULD have the goods. If, for some reason, it ends up terrible, I'll be VERY concerned for the future over at Pixar.

Hoping for the best. And I do think, if it does well, we are likely to end up with some Inside Out at Epcot. They're desperate for new, hit films.
I do think it looks good, but my guess (totally my speculation,) is that Disney is quickly reprioritizing parks over streaming. Inside Out 2 will have been made before this change, if indeed such a change happens. (I don't think they're going to abandon their movie business by any means but money talks, and money is coming from parks and cruises. I could also see other 'experience based' offerings - hotels in other places like Aulani - on the rise as well.)
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
So Google tells me there are 109 animatronics in the Haunted Mansion - presumably all or almost all of them are large, full sized people. Ghost people - but size wise the same. Googles says 120 for Pirates - presumably almost all of those are full sized people as well, plus a handful of animals. I don't see an official count for Tiana but from what I can surmise it's somewhere under 30. So I mean think about that - those older rides likely have about 4 times the animatronics of Tiana!

I think that's why the older rides look so "filled in" while it's really hard to get past the "driving by department store windows" effect on the new ones. I actually think Tiana did a pretty good job with what they had - they wrap the scenery around much more completely than Frozen or Little Mermaid, and I actually like the modest use of screens to add in a few extra elements. But imagine if they had legit 120 animatronics on that ride, plus the budget for background scenery.

I agree with you that more moderately priced animatronics probably need to be a focus. In some rides, like FoP or Rise or GotG, there is a big payoff (in terms of rider experience) with all the new technology. For animatronics - I mean super fans love them and they do look a bit better than lower tech ones - but do they add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coolness to the experience, when compared to a less costly version? I really don't think so.
Well, we've seen what they can do in the 21st century with the SDL Pirates. It's very impressive and technologically advanced, but there are no where near 120 AAs. They just don't do that any more. The advanced ones cost too much and we complain about animated figures.

They need to develop a middle tier.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
So Google tells me there are 109 animatronics in the Haunted Mansion - presumably all or almost all of them are large, full sized people. Ghost people - but size wise the same. Googles says 120 for Pirates - presumably almost all of those are full sized people as well, plus a handful of animals. I don't see an official count for Tiana but from what I can surmise it's somewhere under 30. So I mean think about that - those older rides likely have about 4 times the animatronics of Tiana!

I think that's why the older rides look so "filled in" while it's really hard to get past the "driving by department store windows" effect on the new ones. I actually think Tiana did a pretty good job with what they had - they wrap the scenery around much more completely than Frozen or Little Mermaid, and I actually like the modest use of screens to add in a few extra elements. But imagine if they had legit 120 animatronics on that ride, plus the budget for background scenery.

I agree with you that more moderately priced animatronics probably need to be a focus. In some rides, like FoP or Rise or GotG, there is a big payoff (in terms of rider experience) with all the new technology. For animatronics - I mean super fans love them and they do look a bit better than lower tech ones - but do they add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coolness to the experience, when compared to a less costly version? I really don't think so.
But if TBA had 120 animatronics it would still be the same storyline...It would not make it a better ride, just more crowded.... The mastery of the old rides was in the staging and overall storytelling... the new ones really are, as you said, like driving by department store windows...
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
So Google tells me there are 109 animatronics in the Haunted Mansion - presumably all or almost all of them are large, full sized people. Ghost people - but size wise the same. Googles says 120 for Pirates - presumably almost all of those are full sized people as well, plus a handful of animals. I don't see an official count for Tiana but from what I can surmise it's somewhere under 30. So I mean think about that - those older rides likely have about 4 times the animatronics of Tiana!

I think that's why the older rides look so "filled in" while it's really hard to get past the "driving by department store windows" effect on the new ones. I actually think Tiana did a pretty good job with what they had - they wrap the scenery around much more completely than Frozen or Little Mermaid, and I actually like the modest use of screens to add in a few extra elements. But imagine if they had legit 120 animatronics on that ride, plus the budget for background scenery.

I agree with you that more moderately priced animatronics probably need to be a focus. In some rides, like FoP or Rise or GotG, there is a big payoff (in terms of rider experience) with all the new technology. For animatronics - I mean super fans love them and they do look a bit better than lower tech ones - but do they add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coolness to the experience, when compared to a less costly version? I really don't think so.
It's important to be a bit wary of Disney's official animatronic counts, which is what Google sources for their numbers. They heavily inflate their own numbers by counting literally every little prop that has even the tiniest bit of motion. Like how they would tout Splash Mountain as having over 100 AA's, when in reality they were counting a lot of things like the spinning beehives and such. They also tried to claim all barely moving stormtrooper mannequins in Rise of the Resistance were AA's in marketing. In that sense, Disney would likely attempt to classify those okra plants in Tiana's garden as AA's...

The only ride i'm aware of that genuinely has well over 100 legitimate animatronics is Tokyo Disneysea's Sinbad ride. I forget my count, but I think I came up with something over 130 or so. Not including simpler props either, these were only the more intricate and dynamic human and animal figures.

I don't think Haunted Mansion has close to 100 genuine AA's, nor Pirates. They have a lot no doubt, but probably closer to something like 60-70 for POTC, less for Mansion. To arrive at the 100+, they again would be counting basic props such as the floating candelabra, 13-hour clock, bulging door etc. Or in POTC's case, stuff like the skeleton drinking endless amounts of rum, cannons and such. I was checking out some of Royce Alcoser's videos where he described some of his experience touching up some of the old Fantasyland dark rides. And he said that they indeed do classify any sort of moving prop as an animatronic. Even something like a crate danging from a rope in Mr Toad, which has a slight bit of motion to it.

I'll have to do a count sometime of my own for POTC and Haunted Mansion to see what the true count really is. Excluding these simple props.
 
Last edited:

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
But if TBA had 120 animatronics it would still be the same storyline...It would not make it a better ride, just more crowded.... The mastery of the old rides was in the staging and overall storytelling... the new ones really are, as you said, like driving by department store windows...
That I'm not sure about. Potentially it would have been a different storyline if they knew they had the cash for a Mardi Gras parade scene that wrapped around on both sides, with 20 full sized animatronic dancers, still with about 100 animatronics to spare after that. And even if they had kept the same story - riding through a forest of 20 frogs jumping and playing instruments is different than seeing 4 or 5.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
It's important to be a bit wary of Disney's official animatronic counts, which is what Google sources for their numbers. They heavily inflate their own numbers by counting literally every little prop that has even the tiniest bit of motion. Like how they would tout Splash Mountain as having over 100 AA's, when in reality they were counting a lot of things like the spinning beehives and such. They also tried to claim all barely moving stormtrooper mannequins in Rise of the Resistance were AA's in marketing. In that sense, Disney would likely attempt to classify those okra plants in Tiana's garden as AA's...

The only ride i'm aware of that genuinely has well over 100 legitimate animatronics is Tokyo Disneysea's Sinbad ride. I forget my count, but I think I came up with something over 130 or so. Not including simpler props either, these were only the more intricate and dynamic human and animal figures.

I don't think Haunted Mansion has close to 100 genuine AA's, nor Pirates. They have a lot no doubt, but probably closer to something like 60-70 for POTC, less for Mansion. To arrive at the 100+, they again would be counting basic props such as the floating candelabra, 13-hour clock, bulging door etc. Or in POTC's case, stuff like the skeleton drinking endless amounts of rum, cannons and such. I was checking out some of Royce Alcoser's videos where he described some of his experience touching up some of the old Fantasyland dark rides. And he said that they indeed do classify any sort of moving prop as an animatronic. Even something like a crate danging from a rope in Mr Toad, which has a slight bit of motion to it.

I'll have to do a count sometime of my own for POTC and Haunted Mansion to see what the true count really is. Excluding these simple props.
Ok, fair point. But even then, Google claims there are 75 people (animatronics) in Disneyland's Pirates. Plus some animal animatronics. So again, not even in the same ballpark as what Imagineers today have to work with.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I don’t think the number of animatronics is the issue. Is anyone actually counting? I think it needs more environment and detail. That’s where splash excelled. Not everything has to move.
I didn't specifically count them the first time I watched it, but it was exceedingly clear just by casual viewing that the ride was considerably more empty than Splash. And that outside of the 14 PATF figures from the film, the rest of the new critters have significantly more limited and repetitive motion than a great many in Splash. I did count them on subsequent videos just to have a precise number that I could cite in evidence.

And yeah it matters to some of us. Splash excelled in BOTH cartoonish environmental detail (key detail being cartoonish as most of TBA's scenery has a realistic appearance) AND animatronic quality/quantity. Some of us value classic rides above more modern ones for that reason.

It is obviously far from the ONLY issue with the ride though. There's just a whole lot wrong with it across the board.
 

Ice Gator

Well-Known Member
I’ve been thinking, and it’s kind of wild how the figures found in the Justice League ride at Six Flags and some of the Cedar Fair parks have better moving animatronics than the Bayou critters.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
I don’t think the number of animatronics is the issue. Is anyone actually counting? I think it needs more environment and detail. That’s where splash excelled. Not everything has to move.
Yes. Someone is counting. I am certain someone on this website has a spreadsheet quantifying the number of eyes that don’t blink on “it’s a small world” each day.

I’m watching, Disney.
1717694073244.gif
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom