News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
Great episode you did with them. OrangeGrove55 is underrated, people. Go check em' out, they break things down really well and have softened my view on this ride. Gonna give it a chance once I ride it soon!

Also, here's OrangeGrove55's channel:
Totally agree. OG55 is a great show. An East Coaster and a West Coaster discussing the parks and the greater Disney company. Just good, honest discussion.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I think they have talent at WDI but they are handicapped by a design by committee method which is grossly inefficient. Contrast that with the Universal Creative of at least a couple years ago. It’s also probably why the international parks, especially TDR, have better quality attractions.
They certainly seem swifter and possibly better at managing budgets at Universal, but I'm less certain the creative results are notably better overall. Both seem to have hits and misses and Universal certainly leans more into relatively unthemed coasters than Disney.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I think they have talent at WDI but they are handicapped by a design by committee method which is grossly inefficient. Contrast that with the Universal Creative of at least a couple years ago. It’s also probably why the international parks, especially TDR, have better quality attractions.
I'm skeptical they have much talent left at all. It'll be interesting to see what Tokyo has plans next and how that turns out, because I think even some of the people who brought Fantasy Springs to life are gone. I think their new Space Mountain should provide some insight in that regard.

They certainly seem swifter and possibly better at managing budgets at Universal, but I'm less certain the creative results are notably better overall. Both seem to have hits and misses and Universal certainly leans more into relatively unthemed coasters than Disney.
I've generally felt their Potter content has remained consistently high quality. Even if Forbidden Journey has thus far retained the crown in terms of attractions. But still, Diagon Alley itself was a masterpiece as a land. Gringotts less so, but still a fundamentally good ride. The Hogwarts Express was a revolutionary way of handling park-to-park transportation. The Hagrid coaster is also quite good and better themed than their other coasters. While thrill enthusiasts might lament the loss of the dualing dragons coaster, I consider Hagrid's to be a massive upgrade in terms of visuals and theming. I'm interested to see how the Ministry ride turns out, especially whether the rumors about Universal moving away from video-based attractions is accurate.

I'm not sold on the Epic Universe stuff, but i'm curious to see it. And i'll give Universal credit for not using Covid as an excuse to cancel or delay their projects way beyond any sort of reasonable amount of time like Disney has done. They bounced back and moved on far better than Disney has.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
This ride's problems were seemingly not due to it being underfunded. You don't have to believe me on the matter, several other reputable insiders on this forum have confirmed that it had a very healthy budget. The issues do seem to have been a result of gross mismanagement and just plain incompetence on the part of the team who designed this ride. And WDI lacking the talent necessary to pull it off.
Funding is something of a relative term though. I would be curious what it would cost to build Haunted Mansion or Pirates today (using updated technology.) Given the number of animatronics, my guess is that the budget would not be anywhere near what Tiana’s was. Like not even in the same universe.

I saw a video that was critical of TBA that quoted Walt Disney on how a ride should be like a short series of vignettes, like walking through a cocktail party and picking up multiple bits of conversation. It occurred to me that my expectations for Tiana were nowhere near what they would be for a Haunted Mansion or Pirates, because Disney just hasn’t built anything like that in a long time. I had them centered more around Little Mermaid and Frozen, and in comparison to those rides, I wasn’t disappointed. But looking at the truly old school rides? I don’t know that we’ll see budgets like that ever again, unless Lightning Lane income allows for them. If we do see that level of animatronic use again, I think it will 100% be because it was planned as an individual lightning lane ride.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Funding is something of a relative term though.
The way TWDC funds things really confuses me when you look at their different businesses.

In their movie business Disney has no problem burning through hundreds of millions of dollars with consistently NO ROI, or at the very least, the need to wait decades for a given movie to "be profitable" on paper.

In their theme park business, it seems they look at every penny, and will change, reduce, cut projects as standard operating procedure.

I am sure there were cost cuts made in Tiana.

Having said that, Tiana looks fine and I will ride it if the line is not too long.
 
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Drew the Disney Dude

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Great episode you did with them. OrangeGrove55 is underrated, people. Go check em' out, they break things down really well and have softened my view on this ride. Gonna give it a chance once I ride it soon!

Also, here's OrangeGrove55's channel:
This is, without a doubt, the most open conversation I've ever had about the ride as a whole. I highly suggest everyone watches the episode we did on their channel, especially since I've had so many people ask me what my thoughts are. We talked for nearly 2.5 hours, and a message describing the ride could never beat that.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Funding is something of a relative term though. I would be curious what it would cost to build Haunted Mansion or Pirates today (using updated technology.) Given the number of animatronics, my guess is that the budget would not be anywhere near what Tiana’s was. Like not even in the same universe.

I saw a video that was critical of TBA that quoted Walt Disney on how a ride should be like a short series of vignettes, like walking through a cocktail party and picking up multiple bits of conversation. It occurred to me that my expectations for Tiana were nowhere near what they would be for a Haunted Mansion or Pirates, because Disney just hasn’t built anything like that in a long time. I had them centered more around Little Mermaid and Frozen, and in comparison to those rides, I wasn’t disappointed. But looking at the truly old school rides? I don’t know that we’ll see budgets like that ever again, unless Lightning Lane income allows for them. If we do see that level of animatronic use again, I think it will 100% be because it was planned as an individual lightning lane ride.
I'd also be curious if they could actually build a clone of something like Pirates in this day and age. They did so successfully in the early 90s with Paris. That version also had noticeable motion improvements to the entire animatronics population. In terms of set design, I think Disney MIGHT be capable of replicating it. Modern WDI are probably better suited to creating realistic scenery than something like an animated film, something I have noted as a complaint with TBA as its scenery looks too realistic IMO. It's the large AA population that always throws a wrench into everything.

As I said prior, Disney needs to rediscover the concept of "moderate" AA's to help fill out their scenes. Not have everything be either state of the art with hundreds of axes, or simple department store caliber moving props that repeat the same canned animation over and over again. POTC had a couple of figures that were state of the art at the time (Auctioneer and Blackbeard), but most of the others had more of a moderate design. Less advanced than those couple, but with enough dynamic motion of their own that they could still comfortably stand right next to the elaborate ones and still be a natural fit. Many could still talk or at least move in sync with a source of audio, and felt alive and natural instead of just repeating the same stock single motion over and over. Hall of Presidents is another great example of this moderation, with three high end AA's and the remainder being less advanced designs that can still move with a decent range of their own to make them feel alive and natural. In contrast, TBA has about a dozen figures with a good range of motion, but the remainder are all considerably worse than a ton of the figures in its predecessor. But even judged on its own, they also look especially awkward and stiff when positioned right next to the advanced Tiana and Louis figures.

Haunted Mansion seems far more possible for WDI to create a clone of these days given its seemingly smaller AA population. Most of which are relatively far away from the vehicle, rendering excessive movements of A1000s or even A100s completely unnecessary. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to screw it up. Especially since they seem hell-bent on screwing the existing classic Mansions up already.
 
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HonorableMention

Well-Known Member
A couple notes and addendums to my initial review after viewing some POVs and further rumination:

I was originally displeased with the lull section between the 2nd critter band scene and the scene before the dip drop for being too empty compared to Splash, but I'm beginning to realize this is supposed to be an intentional "low moment" in the narrative before the shrinking scene. The primary thing that suggests this is the lower-tempo audio loop next to the wooden shack. I think this actually a good spot to put a short atmospheric section (Splash did this as well) but I'm not sure it's the best execution. In this spot, my eye was instinctively drawn to the Tiana animatronic further down the flume as it's delivering dialogue to the boat ahead. The audio bleed from that dialogue stole my attention and I missed the ambient audio cue. Something more than the wooden shack to draw the eye to the left side of the track would do greatly for this scene. Just after the segment of Tiana sitting on the stump and Louis looking in the log, we see some stationary figures of the frogs before the Mama Odie screen and dip drop. I know the frogs are there to kind of foreshadow the next scene, but I think they would be better utilized just after the wooden shack in the ambient section. I overlooked the static figures there on my first ride because they were competing for attention with Mama Odie, but putting them just after the shack would allow the Tiana and Louis figures to move further back into their scene and create a better flowing sightline in my opinion. This is all sounding very nitpicky though.

The section between the first and second bands is meant to be a small "scene" where we follow the line of fireflies. There is an effect of fireflies flowing in a line depicted on the leafy canopy ceiling with fiber-optic lights. This is a really great effect, but the scene also suffers in execution because it competes with the screen at the far wall; which is more likely to grab your attention and leave the sides of the boat feeling rather empty. It would have been nice to see this fiber-optic effect on the sides of the flume, and maybe even have it weave around some additional critters. Again, a bit nitpicky.

Regarding audio, I'm now aware that several characters have variations on their dialogue to make audio bleed issues less awkward. This isn't something I picked up on during my first ride, but it's a nice touch nonetheless.

I do not understand the criticism from many that the plot of the ride is complicated or hard to understand. I understand why some might find the queue backstory hard to grasp (while I personally disagree) but the on-ride plot is incredibly simple and easy to follow. The first lift hill Tiana blatantly states she is looking for musicians to play at her party, and Louis in the garden does the same. Before the former slippin' falls drop an audio cue of Mama Odie states we can find the musicians in the bayou. Then, each following appearance of Tiana and Louis reiterate that the musicians they find will be joining them at the party. I can see why the shrinking dialogue from Mama Odie might be hard to hear and understand, but this is immediately followed by visuals of a giant bottle, key, and frog to suggest we shrunk. Then Mama Odie explains she will grow us again so we can make it to the party, all while the vehicle is stopped at the bottom of the main lift hill. Her animatronic at the top of the lift reiterates we're going to the party, and then after the drop we actually go there, completing the plot. If anything, I think the dialogue is heavy-handed and feels somewhat childish, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Clearly the dialogue wasn't dumbed down enough for some!

Even though on the whole I prefer Splash Mountain as an attraction, I think it's disingenuous and in bad-faith to call Tiana's Bayou Adventure "soulless" as many have jumped to claim. While the direct plot of the ride is very simple to appeal to younger demographics, there is a surprising amount of subtext here. The attraction feels like a love letter to New Orleans and Louisiana as a whole. The different critter bands playing different styles of music pioneered by African-American artists represents bringing different people in a community together to create something no single person could have created themselves. This parallels the inception of jazz music, which many consider to be the heart and soul of New Orleans. The original song Special Spice also draws this as a parallel to New Orleans cuisine (also considered the city's heart and soul) which uses an eclectic array of ingredients to create its unique flavor. The ride is showing the creative intersection between the culinary and musical arts in a city prolific for both. It drives home that creating something alongside others will result in something none of the parties involved would have ever created on their own. Many are quick to say this ride feels like it was designed by committee, but it seems clear to me that was deliberately the intention. Whether or not one prefers that approach is entirely subject to opinion, but it's not devoid of character or clever design.
I really like this analysis, and as I watch more POVs I’m coming around to the ride more.

I don’t think the ride is soulless, if anything the thing that upsets me is how much potential there is that wasn’t fully realized. All those concepts you mentioned of bringing together community while also showing off cultural authenticity are ingredients for a great ride. The bones are there, it’s just some of the execution that leaves me disappointed.

I really hope Disney takes the feedback and makes some small tweaks like they did to Mermaid
 

IMDREW

Well-Known Member
Okay, it's definitely fixable.

When we meet Tiana on the log, make her say something in the likes of 'don't get lost in the bayou' or 'watch out for ... in the bayou'. Then swap Mama Odie screen for dr. Facilier. Make him shrink us down like what happens in de movie. Laughing Place becomes a danger scene with some shadow projections. Then have fireflies light the way 'follow us!', second drop into the beauty of being small. Frogs, mushrooms etc. Audio Louis finds us 'there you are!'. Then have Mama Odie appear like the first design (love the first screen with the bottles surrounding that branch arch, hate that second screen with juju). Fill the WHOLE lift hill with bottles please and thank you, idk why there are so few atm. Then we meet her in AA form on the left while singing dig a little deeper and we plunge.

Quick and easy fixes for a more entertaining ride imo.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
The way TWDC funds things really confuses me when you look at their different businesses.

In their movie business Disney has no problem burning through hundreds of millions of dollars with consistently NO ROI, or at the very least, the need to wait decades for a given movie to "be profitable" on paper.

In their theme park business, it seems they look at every penny, and will change, reduce, cut projects as standard operating procedure.

I am sure there were cost cuts made in Tiana.

Having said that, Tiana looks fine and I will ride it if the line is not too long.
Yeah I don't know if it's just different standards for different industries or if they were really hoping to go all-in on movies and digital content. Probably a bit of both. Streaming was definitely a huge focus for awhile there.

I do think that the next couple of decades will bring some really cool changes to the parks. The majority of their earnings come from the parks now. Lightning Lanes build in a motivation to build rides that are really unique and special. There's the whole Epic Universe thing. Movies I am not as hopeful for, but I think we'll see some awesome additions to the parks.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I'd also be curious if they could actually build a clone of something like Pirates in this day and age. They did so successfully in the early 90s with Paris. That version also had noticeable motion improvements to the entire animatronics population. In terms of set design, I think Disney MIGHT be capable of replicating it. Modern WDI are probably better suited to creating realistic scenery than something like an animated film, something I have noted as a complaint with TBA as its scenery looks too realistic IMO. It's the large AA population that always throws a wrench into everything.

As I said prior, Disney needs to rediscover the concept of "moderate" AA's to help fill out their scenes. Not have everything be either state of the art with hundreds of axes, or simple department store caliber moving props that repeat the same canned animation over and over again. POTC had a couple of figures that were state of the art at the time (Auctioneer and Blackbeard), but most of the others had more of a moderate design. Less advanced than those couple, but with enough dynamic motion of their own that they could still comfortably stand right next to the elaborate ones and still be a natural fit. Many could still talk or at least move in sync with a source of audio, and felt alive and natural instead of just repeating the same stock single motion over and over. Hall of Presidents is another great example of this moderation, with three high end AA's and the remainder being less advanced designs that can still move with a decent range of their own to make them feel alive and natural. In contrast, TBA has about a dozen figures with a good range of motion, but the remainder are all considerably worse than a ton of the figures in its predecessor. But even judged on its own, they also look especially awkward and stiff when positioned right next to the advanced Tiana and Louis figures.

Haunted Mansion seems far more possible for WDI to create a clone of these days given its seemingly smaller AA population. Most of which are relatively far away from the vehicle, rendering excessive movements of A1000s or even A100s completely unnecessary. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to screw it up. Especially since they seem hell-bent on screwing the existing classic Mansions up already.
So Google tells me there are 109 animatronics in the Haunted Mansion - presumably all or almost all of them are large, full sized people. Ghost people - but size wise the same. Googles says 120 for Pirates - presumably almost all of those are full sized people as well, plus a handful of animals. I don't see an official count for Tiana but from what I can surmise it's somewhere under 30. So I mean think about that - those older rides likely have about 4 times the animatronics of Tiana!

I think that's why the older rides look so "filled in" while it's really hard to get past the "driving by department store windows" effect on the new ones. I actually think Tiana did a pretty good job with what they had - they wrap the scenery around much more completely than Frozen or Little Mermaid, and I actually like the modest use of screens to add in a few extra elements. But imagine if they had legit 120 animatronics on that ride, plus the budget for background scenery.

I agree with you that more moderately priced animatronics probably need to be a focus. In some rides, like FoP or Rise or GotG, there is a big payoff (in terms of rider experience) with all the new technology. For animatronics - I mean super fans love them and they do look a bit better than lower tech ones - but do they add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coolness to the experience, when compared to a less costly version? I really don't think so.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't know if it's just different standards for different industries or if they were really hoping to go all-in on movies and digital content. Probably a bit of both. Streaming was definitely a huge focus for awhile there.

I do think that the next couple of decades will bring some really cool changes to the parks. The majority of their earnings come from the parks now. Lightning Lanes build in a motivation to build rides that are really unique and special. There's the whole Epic Universe thing. Movies I am not as hopeful for, but I think we'll see some awesome additions to the parks.
I'm very curious to see how Inside Out 2 is. I loved the first movie and the trailers make this one look like it SHOULD have the goods. If, for some reason, it ends up terrible, I'll be VERY concerned for the future over at Pixar.

Hoping for the best. And I do think, if it does well, we are likely to end up with some Inside Out at Epcot. They're desperate for new, hit films.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I'm very curious to see how Inside Out 2 is. I loved the first movie and the trailers make this one look like it SHOULD have the goods. If, for some reason, it ends up terrible, I'll be VERY concerned for the future over at Pixar.

Hoping for the best. And I do think, if it does well, we are likely to end up with some Inside Out at Epcot. They're desperate for new, hit films.
I do think it looks good, but my guess (totally my speculation,) is that Disney is quickly reprioritizing parks over streaming. Inside Out 2 will have been made before this change, if indeed such a change happens. (I don't think they're going to abandon their movie business by any means but money talks, and money is coming from parks and cruises. I could also see other 'experience based' offerings - hotels in other places like Aulani - on the rise as well.)
 

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